Calvinism and "Choosing" a Denomination

[brydustin]

So there is a LOT of debate out there on whether or not people come to God's call (Arminianism) or if God chooses His "elect" (Calvinism).
My question is going to assume the Calvinist theology (although I prescribe to Arminianism), so I would like only Calvinists to answer, or people that have "Calvinist tendencies".
Q1: If God chooses His elect, then why doesn't He do it in a way that all the elect are united under one doctrine? Why does God allow for Arminianism to exist and its followers to "misunderstand" the [true Calvinist] faith?
Q2: Do Calvinists see non-Calvinists as "non-believers"; because if so, then a simple consciquence is that Q1 must be that God does have one united family of Calvinists and only Calvinists. If non-Calvinists are still "under Grace", then Q1 still applies.
thanks, God bless, and "good luck"; Just kidding on the luck part

 

[INTJ-F]

Elements of Arminianism is in the bible, Arminianism in it's entirety is not

Elements of Calvinism is in the bible, Calvinism in it's entirety is not


Just enough truth in both to capture followers and pit them against the other. This causes confusion and strife.

Both are false doctrines that contain just enough truth to be believed by many.

The truth is that if you accept Yeshua as Messiah it means you choose to follow Him and obey Him. As long as you choose to follow Him, you are saved. If you refuse to follow Him, then He will reject you. As our Shepherd, if we sin, He will bring us back to Him. If we continue to sin and refuse to follow, He will let us go our own way.

Matthew 7 Yeshua says if we refuse to obey God, He will reject us no matter how many good works we claim to have done for Him:

Matthew 7

21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

 

[RisingSpirit]

In Calvinism , the Christians do observe the faith they already have and appreciate the gift. The Christians acknowledge the gift already given to them. My friends who are Arminians, believe the gift is also given to them and given to all mankind and they also recognize the gift given to them. The Calvinist knows God ain't wait'in for anythang and the Arminian knows God is waiting for the slaved, captive man to make the first move like God donno noth'in. I allow God to be the Boss and they claim that man is the boss.

When I go to Heaven, God will laugh and tell me, "You dang right I'm the boss !, where are your self-saved friends?

 

[wpage]

God chooses His elect...

We have our role as the Bible tells us. The commission is to "Go Ye" to help others find the way as well.

 

[Jpark]

It's a pointless debate of linguistics.

Heb. 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the elementary [Literally 'word of the beginning'] teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. This has not even been grasped by modern Christians. See 1 Peter 1:2, 22-23, Heb. 10:22, Titus 3:5, 1 John 3:3, James 4:8, John 13:8. So how can one even begin to touch on the things presented by Calvinism, Arminianism, etc.? Without love, service is nothing (1 Cor. 13). Without repentance, love is nothing. See 1 Samuel 15:22.

Resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. People don't understand the nature of resurrection and what the eternal judgment is.

I believe in an actively intervening (Jeremiah 18:7-10, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14, 2 Kings 20:1-6), conditional (1 John 5:18), indifferent to most except those who are obedient and/or humble and/or have desire (Isaiah 57:16, John 9:31, John 13:8, Matt. 12:48-50, 2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Samuel 16:7, Matt. 15:18-20) God, not a powerless God or a God who abandons.

 

[brydustin]

No one seemed to even attempt the question, all you just simply stated what you thought of the ideas of each doctrine in general.
Again, my question is:
To a Calvinist, why does God allow Arminianism to exist in the Christian community? Why not have all the "elect" under 1 and only 1 doctrine.
The question DID NOT ask if Arminianism or Calvinism is correct.
I would have at least expected something along the lines of, "Because this is to bring more glory to God". ... I would have wanted more than that, but I didn't even get that. :o

 

[INTJ-F]

To a Calvinist, why does God allow Arminianism to exist in the Christian community? Why not have all the "elect" under docterine.

God allows all sorts of false doctrines to exist as a test. Messiah Yeshua said the tares would grow in with the wheat until the end where they will be separated.

Since calvanism is just as false as arminianism, why does God allow calvanism to exist?

calvanists will answer you question stating the Pharisees existed and arminianism is a carryover from that (even though it is false)

 

[ddhurley]

Any belief that doesn't give God/Christ all the credit & glory for salvation is a false doctrine & religion.

When a person comes to salvation it's because God has done ALL the work to save that person, we cannot contribute in any way.

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we did contribute in some way, even by "believing" then we would be able to share in the glory, but we didn't, so all the glory goes to Christ.

When someone believes that somehow they contributed, even in the smallest way to their salvation then they are in effect boasting, and Ephesians clearly states that this is not possible.

False doctrine comes from Satan, and yes Satan is allowed to exist within the churches, Christ describes it as separating the wheat from the tares, true believers follow Christ, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me", the unbelievers follow after Satan.

Grace is given only to the elect, Grace is the gift of God. The faith that saves us is the faith of Christ, Christ was faithful even unto death.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Election has to do with our salvation. Not our theology. I'm not a Calvinist, though if you did ask a Calvinist they'd happily tell you that being a Calvinist isn't part of election, non-Calvinists and Calvinists alike are part of God's unconditional election to save whom He will.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ChrisManuel]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and though shalt be saved. How many times is that word believe in scripture? When your doctrine supersedes the word of God you have a problem.

freedom project

 

[strelok0017]

God allows all sorts of false doctrines to exist as a test. Messiah Yeshua said the tares would grow in with the wheat until the end where they will be separated.

Since calvanism is just as false as arminianism, why does God allow calvanism to exist?

calvanists will answer you question stating the Pharisees existed and arminianism is a carryover from that (even though it is false)

Calvinism isn't even a doctrine. Not really; at least I heard that it's a way of reading the Bible that puts an emphasis on the Glory of God and His purpose. That is how you get the conclusion of which we are reminded through the entire Bible that it is God who chooses us. Jesus said that to the 12 who were with Him after the crowd of 5000 or more left. He said that He elected them. Calvinism also explains James 2:17 properly, and to be honest that verse made my world view. It says that without works faith is dead. Why is that relevant to Calvinism? Because if God decided to make us His own we are doing those good works and having the fruit of the Spirit because were born by the Spirit of God. If we were, per say, to produce works to complete our salvation or even just say "Yes." to what God has offered us it would become legalism, that is, trying to merit grace. Think of it like this. If we get even 1 percent of decision to be saved then the final call is ours. That is absolutely not so because if it were there would be no election. All Calvinism does in this case is point to a sovereign will of God. You can't have it other way.

Blessings!

 

[RisingSpirit]

Calvinism isn't even a doctrine.

What ariminians say about Calvinism is a joke. Scofieldism isn't a religion either

 

[strelok0017]

I'm not an Arminian. I'm first and foremost a Christian. And yes, I am a Calvinist. I think I made that clear by my posts in other threads. I said it because I read it on multiple websites and assumed it's true. I'm not trying to justify myself but all this is still relatively new to me. I'm not a theology student and I've been raised in a Catholic family. Few months ago I had no clue in the world what is Calvinism. Then again, still learning.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I'm not an Arminian. I'm first and foremost a Christian. And yes, I am a Calvinist. I think I made that clear by my posts in other threads. I said it because I read it on multiple websites and assumed it's true. I'm not trying to justify myself but all this is still relatively new to me. I'm not a theology student and I've been raised in a Catholic family. Few months ago I had no clue in the world what is Calvinism. Then again, still learning.

The arguments at TheologyOnline dot com are pretty dumb when the bash Calvinism. Traditional Calvinism is a good read but Hyper- Calvinism is a really bad read. Learn the difference between the two while you explore. Most bash Calvinism and not know it's really hyper Calvinism. It puts the Christians in a bad position.

 

[strelok0017]

The arguments at TheologyOnline dot com are pretty dumb when the bash Calvinism. Traditional Calvinism is a good read but Hyper- Calvinism is a really bad read. Learn the difference between the two while you explore. Most bash Calvinism and not know it's really hyper Calvinism. It puts the Christians in a bad position.

I heard about it too. Hyper Calvinists basically say that you don't need to pray for everyone since, well, God has decided who will be saved or not but they seem to ignore every other passage and some of them they move to the point where it just gets above and beyond the Bible. That is bad, I agree. The rest, well, is just very sobering. It wasn't till recently that I started learning all these terms and if I could put a name on the Bible and salvation after reading a lot of it and watching sermons, theologically it would be Calvinism and Lordship Salvation. God is the one who ultimately decides our destiny but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pray because in general sense; and I just love the way Pastor John Piper explained this; everyone is called because everyone knows God but not everyone honors Him as God and Jesus is not just the savior but our Lord. We live by His rules, not the rules of this world.
On another hand I will never condemn people for choosing Arminianism. Not because I don't think Calvinism is incorrect; I am a Calvinist; but because the most important thing in the entire universe is to love the Lord our God and to love others as ourselves. Many Calvinists will disagree with me but I prefer theological debates and trying to prove people that Calvinism isn't something that excludes people out of the love of Christ but rather, in a Biblical way, strengthens us by emphasizing on His sovereign mercy. That said, "nothing will pluck them out of my hand" makes perfect sense now. Nothing because it is God who took you and it is Him who will keep you. Remember, we persevere because He perseveres with us.

Sorry about the long post.

God bless you.

 

[3rdHeaven]

If we can not even agree on the milk and honey, how can any one expect us to agree on some meat. Even sliced in little pieces we choke, spit, cry, and throw up. Some of us do manage to digest a little meat.

As for this meat, we will never agree on it.

 

[DCJazz]

To be honest, I never saw belief as a work. I always figured it more to be faith. I realize nothing I could ever have done can save me, and that I deserve (as a sinner) to go to Hell or the grave. But since Christ died for my sins, I only have to acknowledge a fact, something that's already been done and is true whether I believe in it or not.

 

[Mightymenoftoday]

In Jeremiah Chapter 1 it says that God Chose Jeremiah before he was in his mothers womb and appointed him a prophet to the nations. I can't say for sure if he chose every beleiver, btu he sure chose Jeremiah.

It also says in the bible that God is not willing that nay should Perish. So I think God, existing outside of time, creates all of us already knowing what would happen in our lives. Therefore I think that anyone who calls out to God for salvation, and follows through with the nessecary steps, That person was pre ordained.

Furthermore I don't think it's the right of Calvinist to say who is pre ordained and who isn't. I don't think believing that everyone is predestined for salvation is a necessary component of salvation.

 

[3rdHeaven]

In Jeremiah Chapter 1 it says that God Chose Jeremiah before he was in his mothers womb and appointed him a prophet to the nations. I can't say for sure if he chose every beleiver, btu he sure chose Jeremiah.

It also says in the bible that God is not willing that nay should Perish. So I think God, existing outside of time, creates all of us already knowing what would happen in our lives. Therefore I think that anyone who calls out to God for salvation, and follows through with the nessecary steps, That person was pre ordained.

Furthermore I don't think it's the right of Calvinist to say who is pre ordained and who isn't. I don't think believing that everyone is predestined for salvation is a necessary component of salvation.

I have not seen any Calvinist on this forum claim to know who is elect and who isn't.

 

[Mightymenoftoday]

I have not seen any Calvinist on this forum claim to know who is elect and who isn't.

I'm apologize for my awkward wording there, what I meant was to answer the first question in the OP by saying that Calvinists don't (or shouldn't) have a view of believers who are not in their beliefs pre destined because they have no idea who they are. If Calvinism is right. I would imagine that quite a number of people who prescribe to arminian beliefs would end up being elect.