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Calvin himself was a heretic, so was in no position to criticize anyone else's beliefs.
Won't, rather than can't. But maybe thats a different thread.....If you dissociate with all bad people. You will be on your own , unable to live with yourself even!
What do you think of the many non Calvinists who have committed equally egregious errors?What do you think of Calvin turning in a man to be killed because he did not believe in the same version of the trinity?
Do you, therefore, uphold the sentence of Servetus to be burnt to death?
Do you uphold capital punishment for heresy?
Do you uphold capital punishment for witchcraft?
Calvin himself was a heretic, so was in no position to criticize anyone else's beliefs.
I will quote myself from a previous post:
"Personally, I agree with the Catholics in Vienne, I agree with Luther, I agree with the Swiss Reformed cantons, and all the other council including the Libertines which were no fans of Calvin. It wasn't some haphazard hasty decision, many were consulted beforehand, efforts were made to try and convert Servetus, but the heretic would not recant nor be quiet nor stop stirring up discord and strife. Servetus received the sentence of a false prophet."
"If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them”, you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion (Heb: sara) against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn (Heb: nadah) you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you (Dt 13:1-5)."
Is Dt 13:1-5 no longer relevant today? What does it tell you about how the LORD views a false prophet?
Dt 13, and the rest of Deuteronomy, was never law for anybody but Hebrews at Sinai and their descendants living in Israel. It never applied to anybody else. So Dt 13:1-5 is not only totally irrelevant today in every single respect, to enforce it today would be to break God's law by committing murder.
In a similar vein, what God had the Hebrews do in the book of Joshua was a very exceptional event, akin to what Nazi Germany did TO the Jews in the 1940s. The only reason that it was licit for the Hebrews to do it in Israel was the explicit commandment of God. No OTHER people has ever been authorized by God to do that to anybody, anyplace, so Joshua is also totally irrelevant to our days, and to append to one's self the authority to do to any people what the Hebrews did to the Canaanites would be properly prosecuted as genocide and crimes against humanity, and would also incur the condemnation under the laws of God for mass murder.
We ain't Jews, and this ain't 1800 BC. To attempt to apply the Law of Sinai to anything but the Hebrews in Israel is to ignore the very words of that law itself, which says, explicitly, about four dozen times, EXACTLY to whom it applies. And it's not us.
Interpretation in your opinion. Which is the problem. You set your authority over everyone. A VERY bold place to be.He said we should know how to act in the church because its the foundation of truth. That doesn't mean we should follow a church however. Thats not6 what Paul is saying to Timothy.
your own article quoted says, "have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000. Some historians are convinced that millions died"
whatever the number, do you know what methods were used?
10 Horrifyingly Cruel Torture Methods Used During The Spanish Inquisition
This is AS BAD AS or WORSE than ISIS!
I am not getting at you W2L - but the question of authority is the central question that divides christians. By what authority do you interpret? When most others and all before the reformation come to alternative conclusion? What sets YOU apart?
So I repeat. The sola scriptura " me and Jesus" , "I decide what it means" without the church is a novelty invention post reformation.
The point of the article is that many quoted numbers are misleading. That the conclusion of modern history is that the numbers were thousands 1 percent of 100000
And that many Catholics died in a SINGLE genocide in France, which led to the national shame of the sacre couer.
None of it is defensible, but sadly all were involved.
The Protestants every bit as brutal.
I'm in a talkative mood, so I'm going to continue posting ... as thoughts and questions come to my mind.
It seems (to me) that the underlying theme of this thread is ... "How can you justify allegiance to an organization (or person) which has been involved in such as we speak of here ?" Particularly, as been previously mentioned, ... when there seems to have been no demonstrable repentance of the deeds in question ?
What do we make of the scriptures where Jesus says ...
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
What is a believer's responsibility in all of this ? Would the denial of followship to entities which are bearing bad fruit ... be the expectation of Christ ?
I do think Calvin was a bit of a tyrant when he was in charge of Geneva.
In charge is probably the wrong word "overseeing" might be better.Calvin wasn't "in charge of Geneva."
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