For anyone not knowing about Calvary Chapel -- it uses a dove symbol, which makes it look Pentecostal. It is not. It is Cessationist. It is really just the same as being in a Baptist environment.
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They are definitely Cessationist. If a Christian believes that the power of the Holy Spirit has ceased in expression in any way from how this power is exercised in the bible -- then that Christian believes in a cessation of that power.
So, Pentecostal in theory, cessation in practice?
Not really. They believe the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit has ceased.
Except that they don't. If by cessationist you mean that they believe that all of the spiritual gifts found in the New Testament are active today, then yeah they're cessationist.
It sounds like you had a bad experience with the CC near you. It sounds like they might have been hostile to your assertion that books are bad, which is an assertion that you can't have expected to go over well, given that most Christians, you know, read.....
BTW, Calvary Chapel doesn't claim to be Pentecostal, they're very much of the Charismatic movement...different animal...
Does it honestly matter? Christian is christian.
You are posting without having read the thread? You are making up for me what my experience at Calvary Chapel was?
I indicated clearly in the thread what I meant by Cessationist, which is the standard definition used by Pentecostals. Note the classic Pentecostal/Charismatic apology, Quenching the Spirit by DeArtega. My purpose for the thread was initially indicated, and followed a series of posts in the forum by someone posting under the Calvary Chapel icon, and who tried to revive an anti-Pentecostal thread.
I am most familiar with the definition of Charismatic -- are you? There is no way the Calvary Chapel near my house is Charismatic, and it is a very large and significant church. In fact, it runs Charismatic ministries into the dirt. It is essentially just another form of being... well, let's not say.
I have a great deal of experience in interacting with multi-denominational ministries and Cessations environments. I have no "bad experience" to relate from the church near me, but observations on the character and beliefs of the church.
Your response resembles so much that of a Cessationist. You want to force on me that I had a "bad experience" there whether I like it or not. It does not matter that you were not an observer in any way to my experience there, you will make up what you want to believe and force it to serve your purpose. Observing that this church runs Charismatics into the dirt is no bad experience for me... it is an observation about the church, and I am not charismatic myself, but Pentecostal. I had no bad experience, but I treated everyone with complete love and respect.
You have not reiterated what I posted, but you have forced your own special meaning onto what I posted. And although my experience with Calvary Chapel was at one church, it was a very large one, definitely contrary to Pentecostal and Charismatic beliefs, and it would be extremely difficult to believe it was not representative of the church at large.
Jake, this is just typical game playing. My words can only mean what you say they mean. I have been through this so many times. It does not matter how many posts I make over how many years, a Cessationist will say they can only mean what he says they mean.
PS -- and I have already noted I am using the standard definition of Cessationist, as set out in the standard Pentecostal/Charismatic apology, Quenching the Spirit. No doubt, however, what I say my definition is, and what you force on my words for the definition are two different things.
First of all, cessationist isn't a dirty word. There is nothing inherently wrong with having a different view on secondary issues. I'm neither a Pentecostal nor a cessationist (more of a John Piper-esque continuationist). I can grow spiritually through both John MacArthur and Jentezen Franklin, and have. I'd have no problem worshiping in a Church of God or in a Calvary Chapel or in a cessationist Southern Baptist church (and most of my SBC church is cessationist). I appreciate many things about Pentecostalism and Charismatics, and I have reservations about fringe groups under that umbrella who subscribe to Word-of-Faith prosperity teachings or teach that those who haven't been granted the gift of tongues are bound for hell. Balance is the best approach when we all agree that scripture is inerrant, Christ is savior and lord, and that failure to accept and submit to him results in hell.
Back to the matter at hand, if you didn't have a bad experience with Calvary Chapel, then would you describe it as a good experience?
Calvary Chapel says they're Charismatic, outsiders almost uniformly call them Charismatic, and they hold to major facets of Charismatic theology: continuation of all spiritual gifts and baptism in the Holy Spirit subsequent to conversion. Are you saying that they don't believe in these things, or do you believe that those views don't make one Charismatic?
The first paragraph of your response has nothing to do with the thread and is really just a way of advocating against Pentecostal teaching. Please do not play these games here. I can refute the negativity you are trying to force on me and Pentecostals and Charismatics in that paragraph, but I am not going to be sucked into the game. You can go to other sections of the forum to post negativity on Pentecostals, but not here.
BTW, it's clear that anything you dislike on an emotional level is "cessationist" and anything you like is "Pentecostal", and it has nothing to do with the terms as historically used.
SHEER BALONEY!!!!! You force your own interpretation onto my posting according to what serves your purposes. You change my words to mean what you what them to mean. BALONEY!!! BALONEY!!!! BALONEY!!! However, this is how Cessationists do arguments. It clear to you, just like it was clear to you I had a bad experience at the local church -- just like it was clear to you that I was using a definition of Cessationist that was different than DeArtega.
In reality, my posting is nothing like the accusation you have made, which is a personal attack. And I can set out exactly how I view Cessationists and Pentecostals, which is nothing as you have represented, but it would only be an exercise in futility, as you will not permit my words to mean what I want and intend them to mean.
Cessationists have a good side and bad side, as do Pentecostals. This forum is a Pentecostal environment, and it should reflect respect for Pentecostals. Violating that condition can result in posting which can then be twisted to further the objectives of the violation.
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