Calling things that are not as though they are.

[habeas]

When does calling things that are not as though they are, become a form of denial?

Ever?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

When does calling things that are not as though they are, become a form of denial?

Ever?

When you do not believe it.
To say "I am not sick" when you do not believe it is not only NOT faith, but it is a lie.

 

[JimfromOhio]

When does calling things that are not as though they are, become a form of denial?

Ever?

Denial is living in a fantasy world.

 

[BarbB]

How does it differ from the New Age visualization stuff?

 

[MikeMcK]

When does calling things that are not as though they are, become a form of denial?

Ever?

It isn't denial at all, but presumption.

This is based on a misunderstanding of Romans 4:17.

Here is the verse with the surrounding verses that help to put in into context:

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

If you look at this verse carefully, the first thing you'll notice is that it is God who calls things that are not as though they are, not us.

The second thing we see is that this is refering specifically to God's promise to Abraham, the promise to make him father of many nations.

It has nothing to do with the idea that we can speak words of "positive confession" in order to alter reality.

 

[Christina M]

When God's Word says you are the righteousness of Christ, yet you keep saying: "I'm a wretched sinner".... THAT is when you not lining up with God's Word.

When God's Word says you are healed and you keep saying "My asthma is killing me"... THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

When God's Word says He provides for all your needs and you keep saying "I am so broke and can't pay my bills"....THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

Calling things that be not as though they are can only be done when you line your will up with God's Word and will.

 

[Tatu]

At face value, I don't think that verse is very strong evidence of the belief either. It's not the foundational scripture, it's only distantly supporting.

How does it differ from the New Age visualization stuff?

I think that stuff is the devil's counterfeit of the truth. It's rubbish.

Here is the Bible belief in a nutshell. Jesus said that out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (Matthew 12:34). He wasn't talking about creating things with words, although He also said whatever you believe in your heart and say, it shall come to pass (Mark 11:23).

That is how you receive salvation (Romans 10:10) and that is also you receive other things from God (Mark 11:22-24).

So basically, you're believing and speaking what you find in the Word of God.

 

[MikeMcK]

When God's Word says you are healed and you keep saying "My asthma is killing me"... THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

So, what if you have asthma?

When God's Word says He provides for all your needs and you keep saying "I am so broke and can't pay my bills"....THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

How can God provide for your needs if you're not willing to acknowledge them?

Calling things that be not as though they are can only be done when you line your will up with God's Word and will.

Where in the Bible are we told to call "things that be not as though they are"?

 

[Christina M]

So, what if you have asthma?

You stand against the attack that is coming against you. You do not claim it as your own saying "My asthma...." You claim your healing.... you don't deny the attack.... you stand, on the Word.

How can God provide for your needs if you're not willing to acknowledge them?

Of course you acknowledge your need... you take it before the Lord and tell Him... "I have a need"... "I am being attacked" .... "help me Lord"....

do you think we are all imbeciles???????????

Where in the Bible are we told to call "things that be not as though they are"?

Romans 4:17

 

[MikeMcK]

You stand against the attack that is coming against you. You do not claim it as your own saying "My asthma...." You claim your healing.... you don't deny the attack.... you stand, on the Word.

Interesting. Is such a thing found in scripture?

Do you think that Christians should take medicines or see doctors for illnesses?

Of course you acknowledge your need... you take it before the Lord and tell Him... "I have a need"... "I am being attacked" .... "help me Lord"....

Why would you tell God that you're being attacked?

What would you do if your money troubles were of your own making?

do you think we are all imbeciles???????????

Next question.

Romans 4:17

Two problems with this.

First, if you read this verse, you'll see that it isn't us who calls things that aren't as though they are, but God who does this.

The second problem is that this phrase isn't referring to the idea that we can create or alter reality. It's referring to God's promise to Abraham.

Since I've taken the time to tell you why I believe that this verse reads this way, would you mind taking a minute or two to show me why you interpret this verse as you do?

Thank you.

 

[Christina M]

Interesting. Is such a thing found in scripture?

All over the place in scripture!

Do you think that Christians should take medicines or see doctors for illnesses?

If God leads them in that remedy, sure! God heals in many ways....and at every level of people's faith!

Why would you tell God that you're being attacked?

Ummmm..... He is my dad. He is my confidant. He is my chief strategist in this war we are battling in this life! His Word tells me to.

What would you do if your money troubles were of your own making?

REPENT! Do as Haggai 1:5 & 7 says: Consider my ways............line myself up with what God says.

First, if you read this verse, you'll see that it isn't us who calls things that aren't as though they are, but God who does this.

The second problem is that this phrase isn't referring to the idea that we can create or alter reality. It's referring to God's promise to Abraham.

Since I've taken the time to tell you why I believe that this verse reads this way, would you mind taking a minute or two to show me why you interpret this verse as you do?

Thank you.

God calls us to be like Him.

God created the world with the word.... Jesus Himself is the Word. We are joint-heirs with Him. He Himself told us we would do what He did, even greater.

He said when we see Him we see the Father. We are created in the image of the Father.

I can go on and on about why it is OK with God for us to do the same as He does....


but, if you don't believe it...

if you don't appropriate it...

if you don't use it with the right motives...

it will not matter, will it?

 

[ichtus423]

If God leads them in that remedy, sure! God heals in many ways....and at every level of people's faith!

There is a really good book that I read on this subject called God's Prescription For Healing by James P. Gills, M.D. And it describes the five ways in which God heals: Natural, Assisted, Inner, Improbable, and Ultimate. The most interesting part was the Natural healing, because the author(who is a doctor himself) goes into details about how God designed our bodies to actually heal ourselves! What better proof of the existence of God than our own bodies.
And back to the calling things that are not as though they are, God is very clear in His Word that this is what we are supposed to do. How can a mountain move if you don't have the faith to tell it to?

 

[Christina M]

There is a really good book that I read on this subject called God's Prescription For Healing by James P. Gills, M.D. And it describes the five ways in which God heals: Natural, Assisted, Inner, Improbable, and Ultimate. The most interesting part was the Natural healing, because the author(who is a doctor himself) goes into details about how God designed our bodies to actually heal ourselves! What better proof of the existence of God than our own bodies.
And back to the calling things that are not as though they are, God is very clear in His Word that this is what we are supposed to do. How can a mountain move if you don't have the faith to tell it to?

Very good post!

So true.

Let's say you cut your finger deeply...you have some choices:

1. Go to the ER and get some stitches

2. Put a butterfly-type bandage on it by yourself at home

3. Do nothing but pray


In each case, the finger will heal.......some ways quicker than others.


I've been healed in all three ways listed above, in many situations.

 

[MikeMcK]

All over the place in scripture!

Would you mind being a little more specific?

If God leads them in that remedy, sure! God heals in many ways....and at every level of people's faith!

I see. So then, there are times when illnesses are to be healed naturally.

Ummmm..... He is my dad. He is my confidant. He is my chief strategist in this war we are battling in this life! His Word tells me to.

OK, let me rephrase this. Why would you tell your "dad" (cringe) that you're being attacked? In other words, what sort of an attack is this and who is attacking you?

Can you show where in the Bible we're told that not having any money is some sort of an attack?

REPENT! Do as Haggai 1:5 & 7 says: Consider my ways............line myself up with what God says.

I see. So then, by saying that you need to repent, do you mean that sometimes having no money isn't a supernatural "attack" but caused by natural means?

In a case like this, what would you do to get back on our feet financially?

God calls us to be like Him.

So then, we're to command that we be worshipped?

God created the world with the word.... Jesus Himself is the Word. We are joint-heirs with Him. He Himself told us we would do what He did, even greater.

There are several problems with this line of reasoning but the chief among them is that this verse is not referring to God creating or altering reality, rather, to His promise to Abraham to make him the father of many nations.

I can go on and on about why it is OK with God for us to do the same as He does....

No doubt you can, but I'm asking you where in scripture you find the idea that we are to "call things that are not as though they are".

Now that we've seen that Romans 14:7 does not do this, is there any place else?

but, if you don't believe it...

if you don't appropriate it...

if you don't use it with the right motives...

it will not matter, will it?

But shouldn't my belief, my faith, line up with scripture?

 

[lismore]

No doubt you can, but I'm asking you where in scripture you find the idea that we are to "call things that are not as though they are".

Ezekiel 37:

4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath [a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' " 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

Were the bones alive when he started to speak 'live' to them?

 

[habeas]

Ezekiel 37:

4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD! 5 This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath [a] enter you, and you will come to life. 6 I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. 8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' " 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.

Were the bones alive when he started to speak 'live' to them?

Also,

Mark 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Matt. 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he.

I don't think this is new age visualization. The new agers may think they are able to "use" spiritual laws, but if they have not Christ, whatever they do amounts to nothing. Similarly, there are many so-called ministers of the Lord who advocate for us to use these spiritual laws (for lack of a better word) to accomplish primarily selfish purposes. Yet, if we are able to so use them for selfish purpoese, whatever we do is worth nothing.

This is the Word of the Living God, to call things that are not as though they are, dry bones and all. We need to start using the power of faith in God and his son, Jesus, to accomplish His purposes.

There are so many other examples of using faith to overcome what is seemingly impossible, that I believe we do discount the Word when we deny the power of the Lord to work within us in supernatural ways. All things are possible with God.

The Devil wins when we pervert and subvert this power for selfish gain; likewise the Devil wins when we deny the power of the Lord to work within us to accomplish His purposes. The Devil wins when we do not understand that the power is from the Lord and that we can do nothing without Him.

1 John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

 

[kooolfriend]

Am glad am not stuck to desperation, no hope, but there's a future, there's a way out, calling the good things out that are not as though they are, because not of what I want to come to pass, but what My God want to make it come to pass in my life...
And My God is so loving that He always desire the best for me in all areas of life... By calling those good things out, am trusting in My God instead of in my circumstances...

 

[Atlantians]

When God's Word says you are the righteousness of Christ, yet you keep saying: "I'm a wretched sinner".... THAT is when you not lining up with God's Word.

We are wretched sinners in of ourselves. We are the righteousness of Christ in the sense that his righteousness covers and justifies us. Our nature is still sinful untill the ressurection.

When God's Word says you are healed and you keep saying "My asthma is killing me"... THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

God's Word never says everyone will be physically healed.
And asthma doesn't generally kill.
Besides when you have asthma, it is a chance to go beyond your phsical limitations.
Think about how many great people have pushed pass their asthma's limitations far more then they would have done to push past normal limitations.
So having asthma can encourage you to go farther then you would without it.

Oh and if I stub my toe and say "this pain is killing me." am I actually declaring myself to die?
Or is it a figure of speach?

When God's Word says He provides for all your needs and you keep saying "I am so broke and can't pay my bills"....THAT is when you are not lining up with God's Word.

That is also just bad financial manegment. It is hard to not go into debt, but possible in America and most industrialized countries.

Calling things that be not as though they are can only be done when you line your will up with God's Word and will.

God calls things that are not as though they are because he can do anything and he knows what will happen. We don't. We don't and can't call things that are not as though they are. The Bible clearly says God does that, not us.

Am glad am not stuck to desperation, no hope, but there's a future, there's a way out, calling the good things out that are not as though they are, because not of what I want to come to pass, but what My God want to make it come to pass in my life...
And My God is so loving that He always desire the best for me in all areas of life... By calling those good things out, am trusting in My God instead of in my circumstances...

Don't forget that only God calls things that are not as though they are.

God calls us to be like Him.

God created the world with the word.... Jesus Himself is the Word. We are joint-heirs with Him. He Himself told us we would do what He did, even greater.

He said when we see Him we see the Father. We are created in the image of the Father.

Like him in morality.
We would do what he did and greater.
It doesn't say how we would do it.
Jesus healed by his own power, we heal by the power imputed through prayer.

We are created in the image of the father. These means we can think and chose and have fealings. This doesn't meen anything more then that. And that is a huge thing to meen.

Doing what he does and declaring ourselves as having the same authority or power are two very different things.

 

[ichtus423]

MikeMcK, you seem to be pretty skeptical about all of this. if we can't give any good explanation for why God tells us to do this, than why don't you look in His Word for yourself?

 

[MikeMcK]

MikeMcK, you seem to be pretty skeptical about all of this. if we can't give any good explanation for why God tells us to do this, than why don't you look in His Word for yourself?

That's precisely what I'm asking you to show me. Where in God's word is this thing found?

So far, the only answer I can get is Romans 14:7, but that doesn't apply here because it's referring to (a) God doing the calling, not us and, (b) God's faithfulness in His promise to Abraham, not changing or altering reality.

So you tell me, where is this found in the Bible?