Calling Oneself a Christian But Calling God a Liar about Creation?

[laconicstudent]

You application of 'narrative' to Genesis is supposed to make it somehow fiction, and I called you on it.

I never said that.

When have you read the text of the "law" of your own state, county, city and nation in totality?

What is your point?

Y
What true history of the founding of this nation have you read through? How much of it have you read? Do you know the stories of its founding from the beginning?have you read the biographies and diaries of the founding fathers of this nation -or do you have vague ideas from revisionist historians about its founding and purpose?

A fair amount.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

A fair amount.

Do you call it "allegory and parables" as you do the writings of Moses on the creation and founding of the world and the fall of Adam and the scattering of the tribes by language division at Babel?

 

[laconicstudent]

Do you call it "allegory and parables" as you do the writings of Moses on the creation and founding of the world and the fall of Adam and the scattering of the tribes by language division at Babel?

No, because there isn't any reason for me to do so.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

No, because there isn't any reason for me to do so.

Nor is there a reason for you to deny the literal truth of creation week. There is, as I said, a lesson/parable/oracle of the Creator for those who seek His wisdom to learn from His creation; but the parable/oracle/instruction He shows by that creation week is denied by the denial of the truth of the creation week, itself, as literal truth to read and believe it, exactly as He said He did it.
By denying His truth in the creation week, you miss the foundational truths of His oracles, which He gives for the wise to learn from, in that creation week's order of events in the way that He said He did it.

 

[laconicstudent]

Nor is there a reason for you to deny the literal truth of creation week.

Except reality, right?

The discovery of Australopithecus anamensis fossils1 from strata lying between tephra dated at 4.17 and 4.12 million years ago, and from slightly higher strata not well constrained in age by overlying dated units, provoked the claim that more than one species might be represented: it was suggested that the stratigraphically higher fossils, which include the important tibia, humerus and a large, presumed male, mandible (KNM-KP 29287), might belong to a later, more derived hominid2. We have recovered new fossils from Kanapoi and Allia Bay, Kenya, during field work in 1995–1997 that confirm the primitive status of Australopithecus anamensis, the earliest species of Australopithecus. Isotope dating confirms A.anamensis' intermediate age as being between those of Ardipithecus ramidus 3,4 and Australopithecus afarensis 5,6. New specimens of maxilla, mandible and capitate show that this species is demonstrably more primitive than A. afarensis. A lower first deciduous molar (dm1) is intermediate in morphology between that reported for Ardipithecus ramidus 4 and A.afarensis 7. Single-crystal 40Ar–39Ar age determinations on the Kanapoi Tuff show that, except for a large mandible, all of the hominid fossils from Kanapoi are from sediments deposited between 4.17

0.03 and 4.07

0.02 million years ago.

There is, as I said, a lesson/parable/oracle of the Creator for those who seek His wisdom to learn from His creation; but the parable/oracle/instruction He shows by that creation week is denied by the denial of the truth of the creation week, itself, as literal truth to read and believe it, exactly as He said He did it.

Actually, no, it isn't.

By denying His truth in the creation week, you miss the foundational truths of His oracles, which He gives for the wise to learn from, in that creation week's order of events in the way that He said He did it.

No, I don't.

 

[Tom Cohoe]

I call you ignorant of the Scriptures and their true parables and true history.

Possibly, but that's not relevant, as you are talking about me and I'm not the subject of discussion.

Now about "Everything comes in parables". That's not the same as "parables come in everything". The first tells you that the truth in Genesis comes in a parable. What you are saying is that Genesis is true with a parable in it. Not the same thing.

 

[Mallon]

I did not say how God did it. He said how He did it. He meant it:

God also tells us in Job that He formed the earth by flattening it like a piece of clay under a seal. Do you think He meant that?

 

[juvenissun]

God also tells us in Job that He formed the earth by flattening it like a piece of clay under a seal. Do you think He meant that?

Do you know all solar systems we know are flatter than a seal?

 

[Mallon]

Do you know all solar systems we know are flatter than a seal?

The earth, juvie. The EARTH.

 

[laconicstudent]

Do you know all solar systems we know are flatter than a seal?

Apparently not.

"Misaligned spin-orbit in the XO-3 planetary system?" G. Hébrard et al. Astronomy and Astrophysics. September 3, 2008. Volume 488, number 2. Pages 763-770. DOI: 10.1051/0004-6361:200810056.

Astronomy & Astrophysics

Abstract
The transiting extrasolar planet XO-3b is remarkable, with a high mass and eccentric orbit. These unusual characteristics make it interesting to test whether its orbital plane is parallel to the equator of its host star, as it is observed for other transiting planets. We performed radial velocity measurements of XO-3 with the SOPHIE spectrograph at the 1.93 m telescope of Haute-Provence Observatory during a planetary transit and at other orbital phases. This allowed us to observe the Rossiter-McLaughlin effect and, together with a new analysis of the transit light curve, to refine the parameters of the planet. The unusual shape of the radial velocity anomaly during the transit provides a hint of a nearly transverse Rossiter-McLaughlin effect. The sky-projected angle between the planetary orbital axis and the stellar rotation axis should be

= 70°

15° to be compatible with our observations. This suggests that some close-in planets might result from gravitational interaction between planets and/or stars rather than migration due to interaction with the accretion disk. This surprising result requires confirmation by additional observations, especially at lower airmass, to fully exclude the possibility that the signal is due to systematic effects.

And yes, I know it calls for additional confirmation, but seriously, the plane of the orbits in solar systems is hardly universally flat.

 

[Tom Cohoe]

And yes, I know it calls for additional confirmation, but seriously, the plane of the orbits in solar systems is hardly universally flat.

The solar system is not flat. The orbit of Pluto is inclined 17 degrees wrt the ecliptic. The orbit of Eris is inclined 44 degrees to the ecliptic. Other objects exist in highly inclined orbits.

Not that this is really relevant to anything

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Now about "Everything comes in parables". That's not the same as "parables come in everything". The first tells you that the truth in Genesis comes in a parable. What you are saying is that Genesis is true with a parable in it. Not the same thing.

Everything does not come in parables, and for a philosopher there may be a parable in everything, whether invented in their own mind or not, but the literal Word of God in Genesis is not some mystical, fuzzy, indecipherable mumbo-jumbo for pointed headed deniers of reality to obfuscate with their lying tomes.

The parables of the creation are not found by denying the reality of the Word of God and His truths in the what, when, how and why of creation week, but only in beginning with His literal truth of the creation as He had Moses simply write it down.
Moses was a man of high scientific education and had access to all the learning of all the wisdom and science of the Egyptian high technological civilization of his day. He certainly knew about the universe and creation itself from his own access to earlier writings, like the Book of Enoch, which Book the ancient Egyptian wise men were taught and given, by Abram, only forty years after the dispersion of the tribes at Babel's tower's fall.

Abram spent forty years living with Noah and Shem, while hiding out from Nimrod, who wanted to kill him. In those forty years Abram received all the instruction of the writings of 1 Enoch, which Noah took with him on the ark. This information is found in the book of Jasher which Moses wrote as a redacted history of the patriarchs own writings and of his own history; until his death, which book Joshua completed and then began his own history of the times.

But you seem to believe that Moses was a dumb and ignorant man with no writing skills and certainly no knowledge of earth's history before his time. By reading the ancient writings and the Bible, one learns that Moses was learned in all the science of Egypt, which nation rose to great technological achievements in a golden age under the reign of Joseph, who ruled for the Pharaoh's son and before that as second to Pharaoh, for eight decades; and who led Egypt in victories over all her enemies and conquered the nations round about, during his reign.

Under Joseph, Egypt prospered magnificently, and it was not until after Joseph's death that Egypt went astray and began an anit-Israelite policy which resulted in enslaving the tribes [but not the tribe of Levi], until Moses led them out, which was only one hundred thirty years after Joseph's death; and YHWH destroyed Egypt's greatness and prosperity totally, by the ten calamities upon her nation.
Before Moses led Israel out of Egypt, he served as the king of Cush/Ethiopia for forty years, as the ancient histories state.
This Moses then was called to serve as king and prophet for YHWH to the people of YHWH's own name, Israel; and he wrote the redacted history of the creation in Genesis, and he wrote the redacted stories of the patriarchs' lives in the "Book of the Upright"="Jasher", whcih he further redacted for Genesis.

To claim that Moses was ignorant or that God was too dumb to choose a man to write His message to His people is absolutely arrogant assumption of one's own superior understanding and wisdom, and shows that one knows nothing at all of truth and has nothing to say about God's Word, His plan, and purpose for creation.


Book of Jasher

 

[Tom Cohoe]

God says:
Everything comes in parables [Mark 4: 11-12]
​

yeshuasavedme says:
Everything does not come in parables
​

Ahem ... it's not me you are arguing with. I think you need to really take what Jesus says more seriously, think about it, and stop contradicting Him.

But you seem to believe that Moses was a dumb and ignorant man

Huh? I never said Moses was dumb and ignorant.

Do you think a man who tells a parable is dumb and ignorant? Then you must think Jesus is dumb and ignorant.

First God is a liar if his word is a parable (because you said it isn't?), and that even though God says "everything is parable". Next, a man who tells a parable is "dumb and ignorant" so you must believe that Jesus is dumb and ignorant.

Finally, I am not a 'philosopher' just because I believe what Jesus says. It is you who contradicts Jesus because you feel you have some deep understanding and can figure out how the contradiction of Jesus is the truth. If anyone is philosophizing, it is you.

yeshuasavedme, that you are a good christian does not mean that you understand everything.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

God says:
Everything comes in parables [Mark 4: 11-12]
​

yeshuasavedme says:
Everything does not come in parables
​

Ahem ... it's not me you are arguing with. I think you need to really take what Jesus says more seriously, think about it, and stop contradicting Him.
.

God never, ever, anywhere, at any place, in any time, says that "everything comes in parables".
The context of Mark 4 is the teaching of Jesus Christ about the kingdom of God. It has no relation to the creation week in any manner, in any oracle, in any parable.


Moses wrote literally what God did in the creation week. He was educated greatly and had access to the ancient books written by the patriarchs from before the flood and after, through Abraham, who received them from Noah and Shem, and who continued writing his own records for his descendants to receive. Moses had those writings, and the writings of all the patriarchs and had great understanding of God's plan through the revelations in those writings. His Genesis account is true, fromt eh beginning, and is not open for debate by unbelievers who do not believe the Word is true and true history, from the beginning.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Possibly, but that's not relevant, as you are talking about me and I'm not the subject of discussion.

Now about "Everything comes in parables". That's not the same as "parables come in everything". The first tells you that the truth in Genesis comes in a parable. What you are saying is that Genesis is true with a parable in it. Not the same thing.

The parable of creation week is explained in the prophets and the law.
The stars are for signs and seasons. much is learned about that by study.

The oracle of the sun is a sign of the Son of God coming in a prepared tabernacle/body of flesh, as the receptacle of the Glory of God, and revealed to man in that new creation body of flesh, on the fourth millennial day of this present creation.

Because His coming in a tabernacle prepared new for His dwelling, in the fourth millennial day, there is no way to make creation week mean anything other than exactly what Moses wrote, for the oracle would be meaningless to the wise.

The above is the type of parables one gets from the study of God's creation week, in exactly the order and time frame that Moses wrote of it as. Changing the order or time frame makes the truth a lie and makes the foundation of God's orderly plan non-existent.

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

this thread is an exegetical nightmare

 

[yeshuasavedme]

God also tells us in Job that He formed the earth by flattening it like a piece of clay under a seal. Do you think He meant that?

He did not say that. He speaks of the commanding of the morning and the morning causing the dawn to know its place, and the dawn is transformed as clay under a seal and set in place like a garment.


Job 38:12 ¶ Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; [and] caused the dayspring to know his place; Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? Job 38:14 It is turned as clay [to] the seal; and they stand as a garment.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

this thread is an exegetical nightmare

Only because you didn't start with the Word,itself, but got your doctrine from the likes of Calvin?

 

[itisdeliciouscake]

Only because you didn't start with the Word,itself, but got your doctrine from the likes of Calvin?

.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

the light was from the beginning, day one, and the sun was made and set in the heavens for all to see on day four. The oracle of the sun is the light and the glory of the unseen YHWH, shining out from "the Sun of Righteousness", who came to dwell in a body of new creation flesh on day four of the millennial week of earth's present creation.

He is the Glory of YHWH "seen". He came/appeared in flesh in the fourth millennial day [the days are also counted as cubits in Ezekiel 47].
He is the Light and the Glory of the namesake people of the New Man name, and is the Light of the Gentiles, in that tabernacle made without hands.

To change the literal and simple truth of Genesis' creation week completely hides/obscures the Oracles of the Son of God's coming as the Light of the world, for now and forever.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

Isa 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

When Jesus Christ returns to dwell on earth for the millennial reign, His Glory and Light will shine so brightly that the sun and moon will be "ashamed" and not appear over Israel for the entire Millennial reign, for as the sun itself outshines the moon and stars in the day, so the Son will outshine the sun and moon for the entire millennial day, when His glory appears over Jerusalem.