Calling Good People Racist

[BroIgnatius]

Calling good people racist is not new. It is an old tactic that can be very successful in destroying someone a person doesn't like. Here is a famous example more than 115 years old:

 

[Papias]

People aren't 100% good vs. 100% bad. Lots of people who have plenty of good intentions and good traits are also racist. Institutional racism, white privilege, and structural racism are invisible, or nearly so, to many of the people who support them. As such, many good people are called "racist" because that's exactly what they are. Without others helping us see our own racism, it would be much harder to work on fixing.

In Christ -

Papias

 

[Grandpa2390]

everybody is a racist (prejudice actually) to a degree. It is built into us. We have a natural inclination (probably going way back to when it was very necessary) to gravitate towards people who look and think like us (and possibly have had common experiences), and be suspicious of those who don't. Thousands of years ago, that was important for survival since people who looked like you would probably tend to be friendly, and those who didn't were probably not.

What matters is whether you allow those instincts to control you and harm others? or not? Recognize that you are biased, and stop yourself from forming judgments about people based on their skin color.

I would also add that what a lot of people call racism is actually prejudice against culture. (culturist?). it just happens that people of the same culture tend to be of the same race, but that is no guarantee. So to many, race and culture become inseparable even though there are plenty of counter-examples.

 

[section9+1]

I think people are basically equal to each other. I generally don't have any feelings one way or another toward someone until I get to know them better. But I do think some cultures are better than others.

 

[expos4ever]

I grudgingly agree that a measure of racism is "programmed in" to each of us. Since I believe in evolution, I appeal to an evolutionary argument for this innate trait. However, I hasten to add that I believe our "rational" fore-brain can overcome this inclination that arises from our "reptilian" hind-brain.

I also think that a significant fraction of those who object to being called racist really are racist in the more damaging sense that they really do believe - even with their "fore-brains - in notions that are objectively racist.

 

[RDKirk]

Why was the title of the video about racism or this topic about racism?

It was as much about general foulmouthing of Cobb about a variety of things and the racism issue was just part of that.

Did anyone else beside me even watch the video?

Nobody's comments in this thread are about the point of what was actually said in the video: One guy lied about everything with regard to Ty Cobb. None of which was about an otherwise "good man being racist" and only partially about a "good man accused of being racist." It was all about a newsman who told lies in general about Ty Cobb, racism being only one of them.

The title of the video and the title of this thread are nothing but clickbait.

 

[Gnarwhal]

This would be better suited for the Politics forum.

 

[MikeK]

The title of the video and the title of this thread are nothing but clickbait.

Welcome to 2017. Hopefully we get better, somehow.

 

[BroIgnatius]

I think everyone has missed the point. The point is that when we do not agree with someone, or are jealous of someone, or a person is just there, like a public figure, there will always be people who try to knock 'em down. Today, in our post-reason culture anyone who makes a criticism of blacks, Muslims, women, homosexuals, etc., no matter how accurate the criticism, are called an "ism" -- racist, Islamophobic, misogynistic, homophobic.

Such characterizations are bad enough in our dysfunctional secular society, but we also have Christians joining this game. As Christians we value Truth. If something is true, it is true and does not imply some sort of bigotry. Examples: to rightly call Islam a violent religion is not Islamophobia. To properly state that same-sex marriage is unnatural and invalid is not homophobia. This practice of calling someone a bigot because we do not agree with what they say is merely a technique to quash speech, to shut down debate.

This is why good people are called racist.

 

[RDKirk]

I think everyone has missed the point. The point is that when we do not agree with someone, or are jealous of someone, or a person is just there, like a public figure, there will always be people who try to knock 'em down. Today, in our post-reason culture anyone who makes a criticism of blacks, Muslims, women, homosexuals, etc., no matter how accurate the criticism, are called an "ism" -- racist, Islamophobic, misogynistic, homophobic.

Such characterizations are bad enough in our dysfunctional secular society, but we also have Christians joining this game. As Christians we value Truth. If something is true, it is true and does not imply some sort of bigotry. Examples: to rightly call Islam a violent religion is not Islamophobia. To properly state that same-sex marriage is unnatural and invalid is not homophobia. This practice of calling someone a bigot because we do not agree with what they say is merely a technique to quash speech, to shut down debate.

This is why good people are called racist.

That might be your point, but it's not the point made in the video. The only point made in the video is that one man had a vendetta against another man and told all kinds of lies about him.

 

[expos4ever]

I think everyone has missed the point....

I am confident that many of us "get the point". However, the flip side to what you are saying is that there really are racists and xenophobes out there who genuinely believe their criticisms (e.g. of Muslims) are legitimate, and yet they are founded on racism and or xenophobia. So while what you say here is true, it is equally clear that there are real racists and xenophobes out there.

How else do we explain the "wall"?

 

[Papias]

That might be your point, but it's not the point made in the video. The only point made in the video is that one man had a vendetta against another man and told all kinds of lies about him.

Right. The point of the video was that a stump had unfairly badmouthed Ty Cobb. It doesn't support your main point - which you didn't clearly give until post #9, that you think things that many people see as racism are not racism.

I don't think your examples help you. Same sex marriage is about as "natural" as one could imagine - all kinds of animals routinely practice homosexuality. The practice of opposite sex monogamy is quite rare in the natural world, so if anything is "unnatural", it's traditional marriage. With literally billions of peaceful Muslims alive today, and the history of the Christian Crusades and Christian wars of 1500-1700, you'll have a hard time showing Islam to be a "violent religion" without also showing that Christianity is a "violent religion".

It sounds to me that you just don't like it when people say out loud that racist/homophobic/bigoted people are racist/homophobic/bigoted - regardless of whether or not those people are "good people".

In Christ - Papias

 

[section9+1]

Looking to the animals as an example of natural behavior is very wrong. Animals eat their babies, too. It's perfectly natural so maybe it's the thing to do. If traditional marriage is unnatural then praise God! If you want to copy animals, stay away from me.
As far as I'm concerned, the crusades are the second best thing that ever happened to western civilization. If there had been no crusades, we'd all be reading the Koran right now and you'd be in a hijab.

 

[MikeK]

If there had been no crusades, we'd all be reading the Koran right now and you'd be in a hijab.

How do you figure? that a religion ruled a land 900 years ago is not evidence that it still would today. The Christians "won" the Crusades and I don;t even see an actual Christian most days. "Actual" Christians being those that live their lives for Christ and give all their given to Him, of course, not the folks who claim faith but live their lives in a way that demonstrates they have none.

 

[section9+1]

America has always had lots of marginal Christians. I'd still pick that over the middle eastern cultures.

 

[MikeK]

America has always had lots of marginal Christians. I'd still pick that over the middle eastern cultures.

That's nice. God will spit out the lukewarm, if you believe that sort of thing, but you can certainly enjoy them as neighbors. My point was that you cannot predict what outcome a war fought 900 years ago would have on today. Few would have seen West Germany and Japan being world-class industrial powerhouses just 25 years after WW2. 900 years is a long time.

 

[section9+1]

Mikek
Those countries are where they are today because we beat them. Losing a war to the United States is the best thing that can happen to a country. That's why I don't want the US involved in any more wars. If we accidently beat someone we'd have to turn them into a world powerhouse.
The crusades beat the Islamists so bad they laid low for 900 years. They're making a strong comeback now, however.

 

[BroIgnatius]

That might be your point, but it's not the point made in the video. The only point made in the video is that one man had a vendetta against another man and told all kinds of lies about him.

The video is making the point that I made. Perhaps it was too subtle for most. Sorry.

 

[BroIgnatius]

Right. The point of the video was that a stump had unfairly badmouthed Ty Cobb. It doesn't support your main point - which you didn't clearly give until post #9, that you think things that many people see as racism are not racism.

I don't think your examples help you. Same sex marriage is about as "natural" as one could imagine - all kinds of animals routinely practice homosexuality. The practice of opposite sex monogamy is quite rare in the natural world, so if anything is "unnatural", it's traditional marriage. With literally billions of peaceful Muslims alive today, and the history of the Christian Crusades and Christian wars of 1500-1700, you'll have a hard time showing Islam to be a "violent religion" without also showing that Christianity is a "violent religion".

It sounds to me that you just don't like it when people say out loud that racist/homophobic/bigoted people are racist/homophobic/bigoted - regardless of whether or not those people are "good people".

In Christ - Papias

Your proposition that same-sex marriage is about as "natural as one could imagine" is a direct violation of Church teaching. This is a Catholic forum. In addition, homosexual behavior in animals, when it happens, is sensory in nature. There is still nothing natural. If it were a species would die out and lines of genetic material would cease.

But, we are not animals who operate only on sensory behavior. We are human beings made in the image of God. We have a rational soul, which animals do not have. Thus, we are not enslaved to our senses, or to any instincts, or to any genetic behavioral traits. We have free will to choose our behavior. We can choose reason or be unreasonable. We can choose virtue or we can choose sin.

But, none of this matters. Same Sex marriage is an abomination to God, and an offensive proposition on a Catholic discussion group. I came here to get away from such attacks upon the faith.

And again, your comments about Islam and Christianity are uninformed and offensive, doing violence to the virtue of Truth and of history.

 

[section9+1]

And I've always liked Ty Cobb.