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Calling all CONSERVATIVE COMPUTER GEEKS!

rgbivens

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JessB said:
Rgbivens: What makes you think I buy Dells?

I was mearly using Dell as an example...

Why don't you tell us why you don't like to use Windows BESIDES the fact that it is the most used and the man who owns it is rich???

As for the Linux on a Laptop...thats not a biggie at all...there are tons of sites that can give you info on how to do this...I even know of a site that you can but a laptop with linux pre-installed on it...i think its http://www.xtops.de/

-Grant
 
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tekwerx

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Just my 2c worth here...

I use all three types of OS. Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux.

I have a HD in this PC dual booted with Windows and Linux, and right next to that, a Mac box.

My OS of choice? OS X. But, seeing as Macs are way too expensive, I am phasing out my Mac experience and concentrating on Linux.

Why, you ask?

For two reasons. One, the price. Easily understood enough. And two, the big one, morality. MSFT has, as was stated in a previous post, gotten a stanglehold on the entire PC industry. MS runs it. Dont beleive me? Think back to every time MS releases an OS. How quick were hardware updates right before and after? They had to keep up. Laying that aside, an even better example is MS & SCO. MS has paid millions upon millions of dollars just to keep SCO around to keep Linux users & backers in court, to spread FUD (Fear, Unceartainty & Doubt).

I used to be a HUGE fan of MSFT, and even wrote my representatives about how unfairly MS was being treated in court. Sure, I still feel that way for the most part. I mean, come on, sure, MS does some shifty things, but think about it - MS has completely revolutionized the computer industry thanks to their OS. In the meantime, while MS was being beat up in court, all the opposition to MS who claimed "MONOPOLY!" were in fact crating a Monopoly of their own. Now, just a few years later, most of the individual comapnies that came against MS are owned by a single corporate entity: AOL. Funny, that. Claiming you are being hurt by MS becuase of a web browser, and therefore MS must be a monopoly, but all the while, you'll make one of your own.

Also, Mr. Gates has just come back from a world wide tour (some call it campaign) to speak out against the "Open Source Menace". Funny, how such a small user base has such a large company with over $70B in the bank fretting. If Linux was so benign and silly, why is the richest and one of the most powerful men in the world leading a crusade (out of his own pocket nonetheless!) against it? He must be scared of something... But I digress...back to point.

The point is, I dont like Windows because its the best. Sure, it was good while it was innovating, growing, coming out with new ideas and ways of doing things. Now, though, they are stagnant, and nothing really new comes out anymore. Just upgrades and newer versions of the same old software. On top of that, its the target for every cracker and phreaker (sorry, wont say hacker...that term is way misused...but thats a different post...) who wants to make a name for themselves. Every day brings about a new virus or worm for IE, Office, or Windows in general. I am tired of having to patch weekly just to make sure I dont receive 500 popup messages an hour, or worry if that new virus is going to slip by my virus scanner that I didnt update fast enough and I'll lose all my information. Nah, Im done.

The only thing Windows is good for nowadays is games...and Linux (heck, even OS X) is catching up on that. I can play most any game I want under Linux now thanks to Cedega. Sure, its a Windows shell, but theres people out there now working on making the games run natively under Linux.

Windows last year held 98% of the worlds computers OS useage. This year? 95%. Sure, small you think, but think about the time frame. MS has been around for how long? 20+ years. In HALF that time, Linux has gobbled up a small piece of Windows user base, and come up with a GUI, and some pretty smooth looking distros, which places them WAY ahead of where MS was on their 10th anniversary.

Would I love to chuck Windows completely? Yeah. Can I yet? No. Not until the apps are a little more refined, and people have started developing native apps for Linux as well as Windows. Until then, I'll be dual booting.

STATS:
MS-DOS user since early 3.x releases all the way through current XP SP2.
Linux user since RedHat 5.2. Using Xandros atm (although trying to decide between Xandros, SuSE, or Linspire).
Mac OS user since 3 or 4.

MS Certified in A+, NET+, and MCSE. Not that these are worth anything anymore. Cant get a job with any of these certifications. Goes to show how common the market has become. When I first got them, people couldnt decide how much to pay me, they wanted me to work for them so much. Now, noone wants to hire me because the market is so saturated. Time to go into a different area, eh?

Again...just my 2c worth. Take with a grain of salt and call me in the morning.
 
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Sadpanda

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JessB-"Sadpanda: You're saying that MS-DOS was "the best" operating system available when it came out? That's a load of you-know-what. MS-DOS was considered a "toy" operating system for many years."

*shrug* MS-DOS was before my time, so it's a load of I-don't-know-what :D Fact is, windows is easier to use then Linux for the novice, and you have a choice about the OS you use. You say people send you files and FORCE you to use windows to keep you in work? so? if your a computer technician (i'm guessing...so play nice:) ) then it's your job to meet their needs. But I can see how that would be annoying for you.

And about laptops without windows...can't you buy barebone notebooks? I know I can here in Australia. Not that I ever get customers who want one, but I know they don't come with windows:)

And lastly, i'm not asking for an arguement, just giving you my opinion, which you asked me for, so smile:D
 
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JessB

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Rgbivens:

I would really appreciate it if you would not put words in my mouth. E.g.: "Why don't you tell us why you don't like to use Windows BESIDES the fact that it is the most used and the man who owns it is rich???":

I never said any of this ****. Not a single word of it-- nor did I imply it. YOU assigned those views to me.

Bill Gates is rich; so is Steve Jobs. (Jobs is not as rich, but he is most definitely rich by any meaningful standard.) I do not loathe Steve Jobs. I do not loathe any other billionaire like I loathe Gates. I loathe Gates because of what he has done to a field I once loved-- not because he has forty billion in the bank.

I do not dislike Microsoft because of their popularity. I dislike them because the nature of their particular brand of "success" (i.e.-- to persuade people to use proprietary binary file formats, and semi-obfuscated/closed-spec executable formats, as a staple for doing business) effectively forces everyone to run Windows, or to remain incompatible with 97% of the business and home world (not counting servers; I am talking about "desktop" usage). By tying people into file formats like .DOC (which still can't be read or written with perfect reliability (and perfection is demanded by any serious business) by anything other than MS Word itself), and by keeping the Win32 API and numerous extensions (MFC, DirectX, etc.) only partially documented (crippling efforts like WINE to allow non-Windows users to run software created for Windows, without having to use an emulator and buy an actual copy of Windows), they have successfully created and maintained a situation where the only "choice" in the computer field is "run Microsoft software, or cripple your ability to feed yourself."

People like to make analogies to cars. So here's one. If Microsoft made cars, 97% of people would drive Microsoft cars. They would swear up and down that everyone has a "choice" as to what brand of car to drive. Every time you paid your taxes, some of it would pay for a Microsoft car-- so people would say that the cars are "free" (think: Every time you buy a new computer, it comes with Windows, so people think Windows is "free". Not so, of course; the cost gets reflected in the price of the computer.) And despite the supposed "choice", Microsoft cars would have patented infrared turn signals that could only be seen through the specially treated windshields of other Microsoft cars. This would occasionally cause a driver of a non-Microsoft car to slam into the back end of a Microsoft car, with the driver of the non-MS car being injured or killed, but no one would care, since "they made the 'choice' to not use a Microsoft car..."

OK, so I'm sleep-deprived and making a dumb analogy. Ah well.
 
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JessB

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Tekwerx: Microsoft was never known for "innovating, growing, coming out with new ideas and ways of doing things". That's a total crock, invented by MS's marketing department. Everything MS did, they bought, borrowed, imitated or stole outright from Xerox, Apple, AT&T (i.e. the birthplace of Unix), the University of Berkeley at California (BSD Unix) etc. etc. etc. etc. etc...
 
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JessB

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Also, Tekwerx:

"I use all three types of OS. Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux."

It is important to be correct in all things. You yourselef know that there are more than three types of OS. You mentioned DOS.

"Types (or "Families") of OS" that I can rattle off of the top of my head:
* DOS (includes MS-DOS, DR-DOS, FreeDOS, etc. etc.
* VMS (includes VMS, OpenVMS...)
* System V Unix (Solaris, etc.)
* BSD Unix (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, etc.)
* Linux (Debian GNU/Linux, Red Hat, SuSE, Mandrake, TurboLinux, Fedora, etc. etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum)
* RTOSes including QNX, etc... I believe there is also a RTLinux???)
* Mac OS "Classic" (the old Macintosh "System" up through 7 or 8, when it was renamed "Mac OS", and continuing on through 9.2.2)
* Mac OS X and NeXTStep (note that Mac OS X is also heavily based on BSD and Mach technologies)
* BeOS and its modern derivatives and clones
* AmigaOS and its modern incarnation and clones
 
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xMinionX

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What operating system is "OS"? "OS" stands for "operating system" (which is the generic term for that which we are discussing), or for "open source" (which is a phenomenon or a movement-- not a piece of software). What OS is called "OS"?
I meant the Mac OS. My bad.
 
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tekwerx

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JessB said:
Also, Tekwerx:

"I use all three types of OS. Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux."

It is important to be correct in all things. You yourselef know that there are more than three types of OS. You mentioned DOS.
Aye, I'm talking the big three...and lumping all 250+ Linux distros into one...

Sorry to be unclear. I was writing that in my fuzzy head at 3 am. LoL
 
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tekwerx

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Sadpanda said:
Fact is, windows is easier to use then Linux for the novice, ...
Used to be true, but not anymore...two distros I wish to point out: Xandros and Linspire. Linspire is nice, but you have to pay for the distro, and a monthly or yearly fee to keep the system updated. Looks excellent, and detects and installs every piece of hardware with no fuss. Only prob I have with Linspire is with video drivers. Sometimes. No settings to set (if done on the default easy install), and my wife (who is completely computer illiterate) even installed it.

Same for Xandros, which (IMO...) is THE easiest distro to use and install. Sure, others will argue that because again its not free (although they do now have a free download version), its not good. Well, Xandros installs everything perfectly so it works right out of the box...even the nVidia and ATI video drivers.

Now to address the cost...

Aye, theyre not free. Well, again, except for the new free Xandros edition. The way I look at it is this. The multitude of distros are free, but if you like a distro, then you usually either chuck a few bucks their way, or you buy the boxed set of their flavor. This way, you support the cause, and their development. Linspire and Xandros are no different in this reguard. I like the way they have a completely n00b setup for anyone and theyve put the effort into their OS flavor to make it look good and run well. I support them for that, and give them my money. The only real diff is that they dont give you an option to donate, they require payment up front. Again...I just liken it to buying the boxed set.

Sure, Windows is the standard. If you want to go different, get a Mac. Its the easiest of the big three, but the cost is prohibitive. So, to save money, use Xandros or Linspire. I'd go with Xandros.

Of course, if you wish to follow the rest of the mindless herd, go ahead and use Windoze. (Sorry, HAD to do that...lol)
 
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rgbivens

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I'm getting out of this conversation because its so stupid. I did not intend to "put words in my mouth" but you did however mention that it is the most used and you have talked about how it is a huge business so I dont' really think you should be upset with me by saying what I said.

Anywho, no need to respond to me anymore because I'm not going to even look at this thread anymore because its retarded.

-Grant
 
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N

NerdySurfer/rick

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rgbivens said:
Ok, well then look at it from a non-computer literate person...how many people do you think could run Linux? People that use macs love them and thats great for them if its what works for them...Like Niz said I'm sick of people that bash Microsoft all day because they can't buy a computer off the market without windows on it...well heres some info for you...

IF YOUR SO COMPUTER SAVY WHY DON'T YOU BUILD YOUR OWN COMPUTER AND ISNTALL WHATEVER THE POOP SOFTWARE YOU WANT ON IT?

Who said you had to buy a PC from Dell? I mean honestly...Think about how many people can build a computer...ok, now think about all the people that couldn't...what OS do they use because its EASY? Microsoft Windows. END OF STORY!!! QUITE BASHING MS...

-Grant

amen man! :clap:
i definatly agree!

I think maby the microsoft bashing comes from the same trend of Bush bashing. some people just have too much free time. not that there isnt a place for critisism, but for crying out lould, its way overkill
 
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rgbivens

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NerdySurfer/rick said:
amen man! :clap:
i definatly agree!

I think maby the microsoft bashing comes from the same trend of Bush bashing. some people just have too much free time. not that there isnt a place for critisism, but for crying out lould, its way overkill


Thank you NerdySurfer/rick! but anyways I'm done arguing about this...peace out man...

-Grant
 
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xMinionX

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rgbivens said:
Well you sure didn't ever mention why you dislike them so much...

But whatever you wanna think dude...go take some more pics with a lamb or something...

-Grant
Guys, cmon... too much. Let's not flame each other, we can all act like adults here....
 
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