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Butterfly effect or is it due to seagulls.

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by sjastro, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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  2. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    Yep .. good video.

    The rubber meets the road at the 5:00 minute mark where she points out: 'whether the real butterfly effect occurs for any equation that describes nature is unclear ... {Navier Stokes eqns} ... no-one knows'.

    Also, whether or not equations actually describe nature, is always only ever under perpetual scrutiny in physics, at best ..
     
  3. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    I don't agree with Sabine's statement that because quantum mechanics is a linear theory it is not subject to butterfly effects.
    While this is true for quantum mechanics the implication is that any linear theory is not subject to the butterfly effects.
    Newton's theory of gravity is a linear theory and when applied to a two body or Keplerian system is a predictable non chaotic system.
    Add a third body and the ternary system does become chaotic recognized as early as 1890 by Poincare.
    In this case the evolution to a chaotic system is slow as one can make reasonably accurate predictions that span centuries.
     
  4. SelfSim

    SelfSim A non "-ist"

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    I'm not sure she was explicitly implying that in what she actually said though(?) :
    She says: 'The equations of quantum mechanics do not have butterfly effects because they are linear. Then again, no one would use quantum mechanics to predict the weather, so that's a rather theoretical answer'.

    So, I think this again illustrates the real butterfly effect ... whereas assuming that determinism for the three body a system is somehow also 'a given', just because Newton's equations for the two body system are .. is not at all what actually 'determines' the behaviour as it evolves ..
     
  5. sjastro

    sjastro Newbie

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    It's not just the equations that are linear.
    Quantum mechanics is built around the mathematics of Hilbert spaces which is a linear vector space where the quantum wavefunctions are a linear combination of vectors.
    (Hilbert incidentally was the mathematician who informed Einstein that energy was not conserved globally in GR.)

    Chaos theory ultimately tells us that for any dynamic macroscopic system, a physics model can only be predictive for as long as the system does not evolve into a chaotic system.
     
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