But is it Christian?

[El Wardinio]

So, I see from a number of different threads (and from life in general) that people are quick to question the 'Christianity' of bands like POD, Thousand Foot Krutch, Demon Hunter, Haste the Day, underOATH, bands like that. (If you haven't heard them, they're on Purevolume...this isn't a plug, I promise)

I reckon that this is basically due to the style of the music - hardcore, screamo, rapcore, stuff like that. People react against it - which is the point, as the music is confrontational and agressive.

So here's the question: Is that general style of music inherently 'un-Christian'?

I don't know the answer, but my points for consideration are as follows...

- One of the Fruits of the Spirit is 'peace' - this music is the precise opposite to peacefulness...but then, making a whip and driving people out of the Temple wasn't a peaceful act.

- Conservative tradition...some people still object to Rock'n'Roll as being 'of the devil'.

- God created beauty, and this music isn't beautiful - at least, not in the conventional sense.

So I'm left thinking, well, maybe you can have any style of music you want, but the spirit behind the band has to be Godly - but then maybe the spirit behind the music is basically ungodly and so can't be redeemed...but then perhaps it just needs to be reclaimed form Satan, but then...

You see my question? Thoughts appreciated,
James

 

[MyDogYoshi]

In 3 words:

Function over fashion. =]

 

[FrAzEr1803]

Hmmm it is a tough one...
I guess that the only question we should ask regarding the music is, is this song meant to glorify God? or are the band set out to glorify God in what they do?
My band mainly plays rock worship, but i do enjoy the peaceful songs too. The thing about my band is, we have set out to glorify God in what we do, whether that is in rock or chillout worship. But i keep reminding the others that we're not doing it for ourselves but for the glory of God. This is mainly because a certain member has the idea that we don't need to pray before a practice. but that's being sorted out so... lol i've gone a bit off track there but you get my gist?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Does God have a style of music that He calls good??????

Hymns, a couple hundred years ago, were considered very radical and did not belong in the church.

Granted we are to be set apart from the world... but does playing the same music not set us apart?

I play a couple cords on a guitar then start singing a song by Slip Knot or Maryln Manson, then that prolly isn't a good idea. However.... If I play the same cords and starting singing scripture or words inspired by scripture, the song completly changes to something that IS set apart.

Non christians don't like POD simply because they are too christian like, and hate that style.
Yet we as christians are saying they are not christian... sorry, but I believe that christians have a better sensitivity to the spirit than what we do. Though POD sometimes is not direct with thier wording, non christians still sense the "goodness" in POD.

 

[MyDogYoshi]

IMO: There is no real Christian MUSIC, only Christian LYRICS.

Hymns, a couple hundred years ago, were considered very radical and did not belong in the church.

Exactly.

Amazing Grace was written in a bar, and a lot of your other sacred and holy hymns were once bar songs.

 

[Beoga]

i enjoy pods music, but the problem i find with them being a "christian" band is that there lyrics really don't point me to Jesus, i have to put my own biasness into their songs.
the song we can change the world- a good song, i understand the christianess behind it, but that is because i am christian. to me it sounds the same as any other secular song about changing the world.
alive-another good song, but that could be interpreted different ways, it could be about God, or a god, or a girl.

 

[swingnscream]

So, I see from a number of different threads (and from life in general) that people are quick to question the 'Christianity' of bands like P.O.D., Thousand Foot Krutch, Demon Hunter, Haste the Day, Underoath, bands like that. (If you haven't heard them, they're on Purevolume...this isn't a plug, I promise)

I reckon that this is basically due to the style of the music - hardcore, screamo, rapcore, stuff like that. People react against it - which is the point, as the music is confrontational and agressive.

So here's the question: Is that general style of music inherently 'un-Christian'?

I don't know the answer, but my points for consideration are as follows...

- One of the Fruits of the Spirit is 'peace' - this music is the precise opposite to peacefulness...but then, making a whip and driving people out of the Temple wasn't a peaceful act.

- Conservative tradition...some people still object to Rock'n'Roll as being 'of the devil'.

- God created beauty, and this music isn't beautiful - at least, not in the conventional sense.

So I'm left thinking, well, maybe you can have any style of music you want, but the spirit behind the band has to be Godly - but then maybe the spirit behind the music is basically ungodly and so can't be redeemed...but then perhaps it just needs to be reclaimed form Satan, but then...

You see my question? Thoughts appreciated,
James

James,
I gotta admit, you got my attention by calling out the hardcore & screamo scene I was wondering where you're going with it, but I love your questions, they bring out good points. As a "kid" in love with the JcHc/hXc scene [and lovin the screamo too], I'd be happy to point out the connection.

1. Peace] As strange as it may seem, there's hardly a more peaceful music the hardcore or metal. It's kind like being in the eye of the storm, where everywhere else around is chaos, but right in the middle in the eye of the storm it's completely claim and quite. That's what metal, screamo, and a some hardcore music is for me.

2. Rock 'n' Roll] one of my favorite quotes is "We all know that God, Himself made Rock 'n' Roll so that we'd know what the party's like in heaven!" ..that's from the Rock 'n' Roll Worship Circus.
Other than that... I think the "church" got it's fair warning about Rock 'n' Roll taking over. yeah I mean, Jesus Himself warned that if the His ppl keep quite the rocks will cry out in praises. ...Guess what? That's what's happening, even in the churches.

3. Beautiful?] Wow, yeah! That's how I first fell in love with hardcore. I was at this punk concert and the ending song was a hardcore song. As I was watching this guy do his big finally hardcore thing, then suddenly it hit me what kind of passion it takes to do that. I was so impressed, when we got back home I asked my bro if I could borrow some of his music so I could check this things out. The more I listened to it, the more I heard all the instruments playing so beautifully in the way they combine, just like other ppl would think of a symphony or an orchestra, that's exactly how I hear the music. Beautiful beyond words.

Although, I must put out the warning, hardcore and other hard musics of the like are an aquired taste.

I realize traditionalist probably think I'm just really good at making excuses, but I'm starting to believe the same about them. ..Afterall, I'm not making excuses to listen to hard rawking music, but I'm honestly telling you from one kid's view point of excellency in hard music that does glorify God. ...and I don't think He minds the volume being pumped up.

Oh and one last thing, no matter what popular church or CCM opinion is about hXc music ...there's alot of scriptures that support it, in all honesty.

ok that's all for now. Enjoy the reading, ..side affects may include: pondering, and other mild or serve symptoms.

p.s. JcHc stands for: Jesus Christ hard core


-KiN

 

[El Wardinio]

KiN...cheers for some good, solid answers. I asked as one who likes the music, indeed likes it a lot, but didn't want to jump in there without taking a look around first. You gave at least the start of the kind of 'look around' I'm talking about, so thanks.

I don't question the passion behind it, indeed in that passion I see beauty, 'cos when passion is inspired by God it's a beautiful thing to behold...I guess what I want to be sure of is that, to throw another thought in there, the transition from secular to Godly is complete. 'Cos in the world, this music is (almost) invariably about hurt, anger, rage and generally unproductive, futile ranting against the system, some girl, the older generation, life, whatever. This isn't a Godly way to go about things, and I've found it hard to reconcile the spirit behind this music to the spirit behind ANY music that wants to glorify God, whether it's chillout, rock, screamo, whatever. I'm just worried that this type of music can inspire those feelings in the listener whether it's Christian music or not...

BUT! Reading the lyrics to some Demon Hunter (they're just asking for trouble with that name...hee hee) and underOATH stuff shows that, on paper, they're after God, no doubt. But then, you can write the most beautiful, soul-searing lyrics in the world, and then scream them as if you're being put through a cheesegrater? It doesn't make sense in my head, maybe it's just a taste thing...

And I don't take drawing criticism from others as a basis for writing off a style or type of music...David got slated for dancing in the street with only a loincloth, right? He was allowed to do that 'cos IT WAS FOR GOD, which I think has to be conclusion I draw. If it's God's, it's good, if not, then not so good. Which includes not only hardcore etc, but also chillout, rock'n'roll, worship, anything.

I guess, at the end of the day, I just find it easier to see God's glory in Cool Hand Luke than in Demon Hunter...but we're all different, right?

Cheers all, further thoughts are cool, I'm already in a better place than I started...
James

 

[Devotion]

well i recon u should just let christian bands write what they want aslong as its not against god. so dont have a go at pod, they never set out to be an evangelical band. that is the role for sum bands but not all. im in a band with just christain members, we dont write with in the worship genera but its still all for god as its pure and not sinful in anyway.

hardcore cummin at ya ssoooonn


DEVOTION

 

[Andyman_1970]

- One of the Fruits of the Spirit is 'peace' - this music is the precise opposite to peacefulness...but then, making a whip and driving people out of the Temple wasn't a peaceful act.

The fruits of the Spirit are written in the book of Galatians, by whom? Paul. What was Paul, a Jewish Rabbi. Now the word for peace in the Hebrew is shalom (let me hear you say "shalom"........just kidding). It's interesting if you research the meaning of the word shalom it has very little to do with what we think it means. We in our Greek minds think peace means "absence of conflict, or at rest". But if you check out the Hebrew meaning, it's more like Spiritual wholeness and health, in 2/3rd's of the words occurcance in the OT it is used to refer to the presence of God. So peace is the presence of God and/or living in harmony and wholeness with him, according to the Jewish meaning (Jesus was a Jew ya know).

Anyway, you guys should check out the "Baptist/Anabaptist" room, myself and several others are having a heated discussion about this very topic, I could use the "backup"................LOL.

May He give you His peace...........

 

[Ginsu]

soul-searing lyrics in the world, and then scream them as if you're being put through a cheesegrater? It doesn't make sense in my head,

Maybe they can't hit a high C note so they just figure "we might as well just scream the thing".

 

[Bayhawks83]

i think bands like extol are just noise. i think it will fade away after people will realize its just noise.

 

[Wahwax]

If you were a missionary in a foriegn country you would only be effective if you spread the Word in the local language. Other wise it will not be understood.

If you are a missionary witnessing to people who like metal then you have to learn to speak their language.

Let's face it, Marylin Manson fans aren't going to listen to the Gaither Group

 

[rachelg2004]

I tend to think they are boarderline. They say they are Christian and their lyrics silently prove that but they aren't super upfront and in worship through their music. A lot of non-christians get into their music and mistake the Love of God for a Love Song about a Girl.

 

[mindgamesnumber1]

I tend to think they are boarderline. They say they are Christian and their lyrics silently prove that but they aren't super upfront and in worship through their music. A lot of non-christians get into their music and mistake the Love of God for a Love Song about a Girl.

I agree with that. I think that Christian bands need to be more open with there love of God in there lyrics but It's not likely because they could lose profits and they wouldn't risk that IMO. However some aren't like that and do praise God in their songs openly and do talk about him at their concerts. Skillet for example is pretty good about this as far as I know.

 

[El Wardinio]

I tend to think they are boarderline. They say they are Christian and their lyrics silently prove that but they aren't super upfront and in worship through their music. A lot of non-christians get into their music and mistake the Love of God for a Love Song about a Girl.

They have silent lyrics?

I don't think it (always) matters if some non-Christians mistake "the Love of God for a Love Song about a Girl", as if the band is aiming to minister to Christians who don't make that error, then the band is doing fine. If some non-Christians get it wrong, then hey, at least the music's spiritually better for them than most of the alternative love songs about girls...

...though if the band is aiming primarily to witness to non-Christians, then yes, they need to be clearer.

Let's face it, Marylin Manson fans aren't going to listen to the Gaither Group

Hee hee.

 

[Echoes Peak]

If you were a missionary in a foriegn country you would only be effective if you spread the Word in the local language. Other wise it will not be understood.

If you are a missionary witnessing to people who like metal then you have to learn to speak their language.

Let's face it, Marylin Manson fans aren't going to listen to the Gaither Group

Okay, so you get brownie points for that comment

For my own edification, what exactly is "screamo" ?

 

[TheDandyMan]

I think that the style of music is like somebody's appearance or a book's cover. It's glaring and noticeable, but it's not what should be judged about the music/person/book. If somebody is incredibly obese and/or malodorous, you tend to want to stray from that guy a little bit. But, this guy could be one of the nicest, kindest people in the whole world. People's appearances are just shells. Their heart is what really matters (Incredibly corny, but true, right?). Same with metal/screamo/hardcore. The sound is just a shell, but the lyrics are what really matter.

Also, check out Psalms 150.

 

[Qyöt27]

Okay, so you get brownie points for that comment

For my own edification, what exactly is "screamo" ?

Emo is a type of music that arose from the hardcore punk scene of the early 80s. The singing in Emo usually is typical of standard rock, and the lyrics focus on emotional issues, hence the term 'Emo'. Screamo, on the other hand, is Emo music where the lyrics are predominantly screamed or forced out, or a combination between somewhat melodic singing and screaming or forcing the lyrics. I don't listen to much of it (I'm more of an Industrial/Goth person myself), but the only band that comes to mind is the secular band The Used. Although I'm not sure if anyone within the scene actually considers them true Screamo. I'm just talking second-hand, but that at least points you in the right direction.

Let's face it, Marylin Manson fans aren't going to listen to the Gaither Group

I know this was a joke, but I thought I'd point out something serious:

They aren't going to listen to much of the other Christian Metal, Hard Rock, or Punk bands either, if you wanna go at it from pure musical composition and genre (assuming they wouldn't listen to bands that aren't like Manson, but just as hard or hard in a different way; I'd hardly call Punk hard in the same sense that I would call Metal hard, but Punk is hard, just in a different way). Manson performs Industrial (some might say Industrial Metal; I'm not really sure, I've only heard a couple of their songs, and only snipets of some others. I'd say it goes back and forth between the normal Industrial rock section and the Industrial Metal section). There are very few Christian bands that perform Industrial, since it's not really all that popular of a style for mainstream rock (not due to social stigma from Manson, since the Christian Industrial bands have been performing since around 1989 or 1990, and Manson didn't pop up till around 1994 or so). Actually, there are four distinctly Industrial Christian bands, and two of them are side projects of one of the two main groups.

Mortal is credited for bringing the style to Christian markets, and Circle of Dust is credited as the first Industrial Metal Christian band. Mortal is still performing (I think); Circle of Dust broke up and the remaining members formed two different bands: Klank (which is more Metal), and Celldweller [which is only one person (Klay Scott), and leans more toward the dancier side of Industrial, although the Metal influence is still very much there]. I know Klank doesn't like to be lumped into the 'Christian music' category, but they still end up being put there, being much like Creed or U2's later works in having spiritual lyrics but not distinct. I'm not sure about Celldweller, but his/their (?) song "Switchback" is heard very briefly in the new Spiderman 2 trailer.

 

[Raanan]

Hmm, why is agression or conflict wrong? Or, why can't you be aggresive and in conflict and not at peace? My buddy Dave described it best.

It's like a hurricane. On the outside, it's hell. You've got all kinds of things flying around, crashing into things, generally very tumoltuous. Inside though, it's nice and calm.

Just stay in the eye.