-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
But do miracles still occur?
- Thread starter workmx
- Start date
Yes! The problem is we need (to help us fulfill our objective) "FAITH". If a miracle can be scientifically shown to require suppernatural powers (Deity), then a person could have "knowledge" of the existance of God and not have to trust (faith) in God's existance.
Upvote
0
Well said. To extend that thought: if there was no evidence for gods, it would be reasonable to be an atheist, right?
Upvote
0
There is evidence all around us, but there is no prove beyond any shadow of a doubt for the obsessive skeptic.
Only a fool says: there is no God.
It takes very little faith to believe there must be a god, but that little faith is all you need. While trying to accept the idea life started from pure chemicals randomly takes a huge faith.
Upvote
0
TheyCallMeDavid
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. In fact, every day is truly a miracle when you consider the over 150 life enabling Constants to our Cosmos / Solar System / Earth which has most at an astounding 1 in 10^ 60 th power maximum deviation otherwise we aren't here . Some come in at a 120 th decimal point max. allowable deviation. And all must work in conjunction with each other so we can stay alive on this spinning planet amidst a very hostile universe .
Add to that the chance of a baby being born healthy at a 10^30 th power when you think of all that could go wrong to that developing Baby....and you have a miracle occurring hundreds of thousands of times per day just in hospitals !
Additionally, our wonderful Creator often intervenes in history to perform a miracle . I know a lady who had terminal cancer confirmed by 3 independent Doctors only when she went to the Operating Room one morning, they wheeled her back to her Room because the xray showed not a trace of cancer. When we get to heaven (if youre going there) , we will be amazed at all the miracles that were performed on our behalf that kept us free from death, tragedy, and harm.
Each and every day is a miracle and a real blessing especially if you know God personally and deeply. All he asks for, is our trust in him and his global plan of salvation called The Gospel that Saves from sin. Do yhou know CHrist whos coming to earth was one of the greatest miracles confirmed by history ?
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
What does that even mean?
Fixed that for you.
Why are you talking about evolution? What does it add to this conversation?
By the way, that you think that "life started from pure chemicals randomly" shows you know almost nothing about evolution.
Here you go - Evolution 101: An Introduction to Evolution
An Introduction to Evolution
The Definition:
Biological evolution, simply put, is descent with modification. This definition encompasses small-scale evolution (changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next) and large-scale evolution (the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations). Evolution helps us to understand the history of life.
The Explanation:
Biological evolution is not simply a matter of change over time. Lots of things change over time: trees lose their leaves, mountain ranges rise and erode, but they aren't examples of biological evolution because they don't involve descent through genetic inheritance
Lots to learn.
Upvote
0
Joshua260
Well-Known Member
- Oct 30, 2012
- 1,448
- 42
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I believe bling was talking about abiogenesis; the natural process by which life arose from non-living matter such as simple organic compounds.
Nobody knows how it could have happened and no one has ever seen it happen on purpose of even accidentally. Yet, some people believe in it anyway...without the slightest shred of evidence for it. I don't have enough faith to believe in something like that.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Indeed. Well spotted. Thanks for noting that.
The main point stands: if "nobody knows how it could have happened", the poster cannot say that "life started from pure chemicals randomly".
Abiogenesis may be random or non-random, if you are correct. So, we don't yet know.
And we should withhold comment.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
TheyCallMeDavid
Well-Known Member
No, it is NOT the God of the Gaps argument in the least ; rather, it is taking external events left over from the creation of the universe which is what the 150 + design anthropic constants are in addition to our Physics Laws ... and determining BY SCIENCE how much leeway tolerance there is so our existence can be had and sustained. There is no 'gap' ... but there are effects that can and have been measured . THe Design Argument for a personal theistic Creator has never been refuted and instead, the critic must try to convince us and himself that such things come from raw materials even though the two are mutually exclusive because the Constants aren't made of mass. Last time I checked, for every design, a Designer is required ; a Designer is NOT non intelligent, non personal, non willful Matter nor raw Chemicals floating around .
Our Universe coming in existence from nothing complete with all the personal, highly intelligent effects, and informational complex specificity .... is the biggest miracle of all, ever. Anything less than that big miracle is childsplay for a magnificent Creator .
God also has freewill and if he chose not to heal your Uncle , then sometimes he chooses not to for his own information and purposes.
Yes, there is tremendous evidence for Christ despite the atheist websites saying otherwise due to their axe to grind. If you want the evidence in a true sincere manner, then you simply go to one of many sites or books on the topic. Here is just one of many : http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheists_myths.html . Here you will find EVERY Christian Topic that the critics misunderstand or don't want to be real.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
A tree is evidence of Gods existence, if you will accept the evidence, but there will be no absolute proof for the skeptic.
I have a Masters in Chemistry and I am not talking about biological evolution. Yes, biological evolution does help us with the history of life, but chemicals do not evolve and I am talking about the time before life and chemicals becoming living organisms. There is no system or reason for chemicals to become living organisms, other than by random chance. So what are the chances of that happening randomly?
Upvote
0
TheyCallMeDavid
Well-Known Member
The chance was determine by two atheist Scientists of the last century, Sir Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wisksramaghe by giving every conceivable chance ; it came in at 1 in 10^40,000 th power . So much for atheistic abiogenesis.
When you begin to understand how incredibly complex a cell truly is and the informational messages found in the DNA molecule .... all atheistic reasons for first life occurring the traditional way is fully and completely null and void. Im sure you are astounded as to the specified complexity in a living cell, aren't you ? I think I would have really enjoyed being in your Field of Study.
Upvote
0
Joshua260
Well-Known Member
- Oct 30, 2012
- 1,448
- 42
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Thanks, but my point was that I (and I believe also bling) don't believe in abiogenesis at all. Leaving aside biblical beliefs, it's really hard to believe in something (life from non-life through natural processes) that has never been witnessed in recorded history and, as hard and long as naturalists have tried, never been repeated. Those who believe in abiogenesis have already ruled out the possibility of any supernatural influence. They choose to believe that life arose solely due to natural causes (without a shred of evidence to support that view).
It's a reverse god-of-the-gaps view: "The supernatural doesn't exist (or if it does, it certainly had nothing to do with creating life from non-life), therefore some natural process must have caused life to come from non-life."
Upvote
0
TheyCallMeDavid
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It starts with a Person having an apriori-philosophical commitment to Materialism which automatically discounts intelligent causes which can only come from a Person with the implication being God himself ; this is bad science because science ...at least the unbiased sort....is supposed to be about discovering and considering ALL and ANY causes whether they be natural causes or intelligent causes. The science of archeology is such whereby both natural causes or intelligent causes are determined..but when it comes to considering the whole Shebang (that is, the Universe and its origin), suddenly we see a strong bias entering because the atheist Cosmologist or common professed atheist simply rules out intelligent causes right from the start . So much for scientific objectivity that the atheist says he champions .
This is why the atheist wont consider the obvious scientifically confirmed Design Parameters of our Solar System and Earth as something credible because they know that Design cant come from a Materialistic worldview . They refuse to acknowledge Design even when some of these parameters occupy a scientifically measurable 10^60 th power max. allowable leeway otherwise its not possible for us to live here. Most of the Design Parameters discovered (now numbering over 150) even have some max. leeway at a staggering 10^120 th power such as the Cosmological Constant or Dark Energy as its termed. We live in a purposed, ad hoc, extremely special and willed place called Earth and for those whos pride isn't allowed to get in the way, it should bring about great reverence and awe to the personal Theistic Creator of the Universe and Us.
Upvote
0
How? That is a non-sequitur.
How do trees (physical and natural phenomena) prove that gods exist (supernatural phenomena)?
By what mechanism?
Again, how is this in any way related to the topic of this thread?
Upvote
0
No. You are trying to reverse the burden of proof.
If you claim that gods exist, you have to prove it.
Upvote
0
As above:
No. You are trying to reverse the burden of proof.
If you claim that gods exist, you have to prove it.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
