Bush for Protestants!

[princess_ballet]

Hope that caught your attention!

I know there has been a lot of talk on here about Bush possibly becoming Catholic and him having pictures of Mary in the White House. Well at our last meeting, the Secretary of the College Republicans started in about saying that Protestants have always been loyal to the Republican party and now President Bush was their President and he was going to really stand up for their issues.


First, whether you agree about whether he will do this or not, I don't care. But is sorta bothered me that now President Bush is being labeled as the "Protestant President." No, Catholics have been misguided and voted the wrong way for many years ( ), but its normally been 50/50, so really we don't vote just one way or the other and we are just as much Christian as they are, so how come he couldn't have just said President Bush is the "Christian President" (he probably doesn't think we're included in that anyway...well, not he actually probably does)?

So would you be upset about this? If you had campaigned and helped out this group as much as I have and then one of the leaders of the group said this to the group? Would you talk to him about it? What would you say? ("A bunch of think P. Bush is going to convert!!!")

 

[HumbleMan]

I think out in the "real world", people see him as a Christian president. His theology, from what I've heard him speak of it, doesn't position him as either RCC or Prot.

I think the secretary was just feeling her oats, because the media has made a big deal of the conservative, evangelical vote carrying Bush this year.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

What the heck are Protestant issues?

 

[Benedicta00]

I would try to put it in perspective. Both Catholics and Protestants are pleased with Bush because for the most part he is standing up for traditional Christian values. I don't think it's correct to label him either Protestant or Catholic even though technically he is Protestant, he is a Christian and that is what counts right now. He stands up for traditional Christian values that we need restored. His doctrinal beliefs really shouldn’t be a issue and that is what I would stress, that he's agenda is not about doctrine but traditional values we all share.

 

[Benedicta00]

I think out in the "real world", people see him as a Christian president. His theology, from what I've heard him speak of it, doesn't position him as either RCC or Prot.

I think the secretary was just feeling her oats, because the media has made a big deal of the conservative, evangelical vote carrying Bush this year.

And if you notice, the media won’t touch with a ten foot pole that Bush also carried the majority of the Catholic vote.

 

[Benedicta00]

What the heck are Protestant issues?

They should be the same as Catholic issues politically speaking, for social justice, to stop abortion, to restore the sanctity of marriage, to promote the traditional two-parent family.

This shouldn’t be a Protestant vrs Catholic administration on social and family issues, we are on the same side here. This isn’t about doctrine or theology.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Shelb5 again.

They should be the same as Catholic issues politically speaking, for social justice, to stop abortion, to restore the sanctity of marriage, to promote the traditional two-parent family.

This shouldn’t be a Protestant vrs Catholic administration on social and family issues, we are on the same side here. This isn’t about doctrine or theology.

This is where all christians should be in agreement!
​

 

[Dream]

Well I've got to be honest. If I voted for a candidate because they were Catholic and would handle issues in a Catholic way, I would be pretty ticked if they converted to Protestanism.

 

[Markh]

Bush is certainly not a Christian president in my opinion and he would have to change an awful lot of views to ever become a Catholic.

a) the pope condemned the war in Iraq- and it certainly is not a just war, it isn't even in self defence!
b) his policies towards the environment are a disgrace
c) his love of the death penalty is terrible
d) his encouragement of contraceptives (he certainly isn't anywhere near 50% of funding going to abstinence)
e) and then there are his economics- which are in opposition to Catholic social teaching
f) and then there are his policies on guns
g) and his moral policies aren't even good enough- he still wants abortion in cases of rape, and he is doing stem cell research on embryos!

let us remember apart from the crucial moral issues where Bush is closer to Catholicism, the democrats still represent the Catholic interests in every other policy matter.

that is my position on Bush anyway- if it weren't for the moral policies (which are the most important) I would be ashamed of the Catholics who voted for him over the democrats.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

They should be the same as Catholic issues politically speaking, for social justice, to stop abortion, to restore the sanctity of marriage, to promote the traditional two-parent family.

This shouldn’t be a Protestant vrs Catholic administration on social and family issues, we are on the same side here. This isn’t about doctrine or theology.

Exactly my point. So why would the person talk about "Protestant issues" that Bush is going to support? That's my question.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Exactly my point. So why would the person talk about "Protestant issues" that Bush is going to support? That's my question.

Because the person who used those words is biased and probably anti-Catholic.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Remember, Catholics have always held these views intact, we have never wavered from Marriage, Abortion, etc... It is something non-Catholic's are coming back to or finally taking a moral political stance( Catholics have always done this)

 

[princess_ballet]

a) the pope condemned the war in Iraq- and it certainly is not a just war, it isn't even in self defence!
b) his policies towards the environment are a disgrace
c) his love of the death penalty is terrible
d) his encouragement of contraceptives (he certainly isn't anywhere near 50% of funding going to abstinence)
e) and then there are his economics- which are in opposition to Catholic social teaching
f) and then there are his policies on guns
g) and his moral policies aren't even good enough- he still wants abortion in cases of rape, and he is doing stem cell research on embryos!

Wow...there is so much wrong with that list and I am just going to pretend that you didn't even say it. That's why sometimes I wonder what is really going on in other Catholic's heads and this is why comments like were given last night at the meeting were even said.

Remember, Catholics have always held these views intact, we have never wavered from Marriage, Abortion, etc... It is something non-Catholic's are coming back to or finally taking a moral political stance( Catholics have always done this)

So Catholics have always stood for marriage, pro-life, etc. Then shouldn't it be us that take this movement when it comes to forefront instead of letting someone else dictate it?

But, more deeply, should I talk to this guy? I know him a little bit and we've gotten along pretty well, but do I take that and talk to him?

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Wow...there is so much wrong with that list and I am just going to pretend that you didn't even say it.

Yep, you are correct there are many things on that list that are refutable. I do disagree with Bush on some things, but that list is not accurate.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Though the list is inaccurate, the first item on it is quite correct.

 

[Dream]

a) the pope condemned the war in Iraq- and it certainly is not a just war, it isn't even in self defence!

This is still up for debate whether it is a just war, but I agree with you.

b) his policies towards the environment are a disgrace

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you talking about ANWAR or are you just buying into liberal propaganda?

c) his love of the death penalty is terrible

I agree completly, but the death penalty isn't too high on my list of priorites. I think working to save the lives of millions of unborn children is more important than working to save the lives of 20-30 convicted killers and rapists.

d) his encouragement of contraceptives (he certainly isn't anywhere near 50% of funding going to abstinence)

However, he has said publically stated that the FDA approval of the RU-486 is wrong.

e) and then there are his economics- which are in opposition to Catholic social teaching

This is much too involved, so I'm not even going to tackle this one. All I want to say is that our economy has picked up substantially since 9/11.

f) and then there are his policies on guns

Huh?

g) and his moral policies aren't even good enough- he still wants abortion in cases of rape, and he is doing stem cell research on embryos!

This is being discussed in another thread. No, he is not the most pro-life guy out there, but he has done more than any President ever has.

Also, the Supreme Court has the final say in abortion, not the President.

Bush is against further embroyonic stem cell research. (Why do you think that people like Ron Reagan were so admitely against Bush?)

let us remember apart from the crucial moral issues where Bush is closer to Catholicism, the democrats still represent the Catholic interests in every other policy matter.

I very much disagree with this statement.

that is my position on Bush anyway- if it weren't for the moral policies (which are the most important) I would be ashamed of the Catholics who voted for him over the democrats.

Well, you're entitled to your own opinion, as am I. Let us just remember the issues that the Catholic Church takes a strong stand on: abortion, embryonic stem cell research, gay marriage, euthanasia, and cloning.

 

[Maximus]

Bush is certainly not a Christian president in my opinion and he would have to change an awful lot of views to ever become a Catholic.

Well, he says he's a Protestant Christian. We should give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

a) the pope condemned the war in Iraq- and it certainly is not a just war, it isn't even in self defence!

Which is his opinion as the man who is Bishop of Rome and certainly not an ex cathedra statement on faith or morals. We should respect the Pope's political opinions, but we are not bound by them.

I disagreed with him when he kissed the Koran and invited the pagans to Assisi (twice). I disagree with him on the Iraq War.

The Pope is the Successor of St. Peter and Head of the Church on earth. He is not impeccable. Not everything he says or does is always correct.

b) his policies towards the environment are a disgrace

That is very debatable. The opinions of those who oppose him are often extreme and unrealistic. They are generally based upon the premise that anything the U.S. does is wrong and the myth that Third World persons are mystically in harmony with nature.

c) his love of the death penalty is terrible

When has Bush ever said that he "loves" the death penalty?

Besides, it is not Catholic teaching that the death penalty is always wrong. It is arguably justifiable in certain cases.

d) his encouragement of contraceptives (he certainly isn't anywhere near 50% of funding going to abstinence)

Bush is a typical mixed-up Protestant on that issue.

But most Democrats aren't mixed-up on it. They are Pro-Death with a terrible, indomitable consistency.

e) and then there are his economics- which are in opposition to Catholic social teaching

Not true. Catholic social teaching emphasizes justice and caring for the poor. It does not endorse the leftist model of socialism.

Republicans do care about social justice. They just do not believe big government can achieve it. In fact, big government can only achieve its opposite.

f) and then there are his policies on guns

Darn! I'm a Catholic and I like guns and hunting. When has the Catholic Church endorsed gun control? I know Hitler and Stalin were all for it . . . but the Church?

g) and his moral policies aren't even good enough- he still wants abortion in cases of rape, and he is doing stem cell research on embryos!

Bush approved research on those embryos that were slated for destruction. He authorized no new embryonic stem cell research.

I would not have approved ANY embryonic stem cell research, but then again, Kerry endorses wholesale slaughter.

On the abortion exceptions thing: again, Bush is a typical mixed-up Protestant. He is wrong on the exceptions. The vast majority of Democrats, however, are not mixed-up. They know what they want: abortion on demand, including partial-birth infanticide.

let us remember apart from the crucial moral issues where Bush is closer to Catholicism, the democrats still represent the Catholic interests in every other policy matter.

that is my position on Bush anyway- if it weren't for the moral policies (which are the most important) I would be ashamed of the Catholics who voted for him over the democrats.

Wrong. That may have been true in the past, but it is not true today.

You should read the opinions of some notable Catholics on these subjects, men like Robert Bork, George Will, Robert Novak, and William F. Buckley, Jr.

I wish I had more time to go into detail, but I don't.

 

[Adammi]

It would of course be wonderful, but I've heard nothing about it 'till now.
I doubt that he will, considering he resisted the pope's urge of peace in Iraq and stuff, and if he converted out of Episcopalianism for Methodism, I doubt he will go Catholic.
I may just be misinformed though.

 

[Markh]

American Catholics do not understand how one would expect a party representing Catholic parties to be like-

being a European, where we have a tradition of Catholic social treaching based parties, I can point to how far Bush is from being anything like we in Europe would consider Catholic.

The individualism of America has seaped into the mindsets of the American Catholics clouding their judgements as what policies are "Catholic".

Bush's party is protestant through and through. The Democrats are the natural home for Catholics. Abortion is the issue which deviates Catholics away from this- but the fact of the matter is, and all non-american Catholic pundits will agree the Republican party is by no means at all even nearly a Catholic party.

I get shudders down my spine at the thought of someone considering it a Christian party.

I personally, if I was American would not just want Kerry excommunicated, but Jeb Bush as he has supported the death penalty outside of the tiny exceptions on which it is accepted in Catholic social teaching.

 

[FullyMT]

American Catholics do not understand how one would expect a party representing Catholic parties to be like-

being a European, where we have a tradition of Catholic social treaching based parties, I can point to how far Bush is from being anything like we in Europe would consider Catholic.

The individualism of America has seaped into the mindsets of the American Catholics clouding their judgements as what policies are "Catholic".

Bush's party is protestant through and through. The Democrats are the natural home for Catholics. Abortion is the issue which deviates Catholics away from this- but the fact of the matter is, and all non-american Catholic pundits will agree the Republican party is by no means at all even nearly a Catholic party.

I get shudders down my spine at the thought of someone considering it a Christian party.

I personally, if I was American would not just want Kerry excommunicated, but Jeb Bush as he has supported the death penalty outside of the tiny exceptions on which it is accepted in Catholic social teaching.

Mark, he's the closest person in office to holding anything remotely near Catholic ideals as president since (possibly) Kennedy. The "Catholic" candidate Kerry was at least seemingly "less" of a Catholic than Bush. We have quite a bit to be thankful for considering who COULD have become president. If a "hardcore orthodox" Catholic were to run for president, they wouldn't even make it through primaries, let alone be voted into office.