Burn a Koran for free speech.

[lawtonfogle]

So, would there be anything wrong with trying to start a movement to burn Koran (and any other books people want to) just to show this (where I live, because I'm talking about where I live) is the USA and we have freedom of speech, a freedom that we will exercise even when others threaten violence if we speak.

While I personally find the burning of books distasteful, it is like honey compared to limiting free speech. I say every American should go out and burn a book just to show they have the freedom to (and no, I don't actually care if you burn a Bible instead).

 

[religious&reasonable]

Can you? Yes

Should you? Probably not

Why? Because it's an idiotic idea

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Has there been some movement in Congress or the Senate to outlaw free speech? Would burning Qurans somehow prevent these proposed limitations on speech from happening in your opinion? Would the resultant problems caused by the incitement / provocation of a large scale Quran burning spree actually lead to the very prohibitions you are worried about?

 

[Gabe7]

If you convince other people to do it, is it really free speech? It seems like more of a poser thing to start such a trend. Free thinkers who speak their mind engage in free speech. Sheep follow others.

 

[lux et lex]

I find book burning to be more offensive than flag burning. With that said...yeah go ahead if you want to.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Morally, there's no issue, but it's a massive waste of paper (not to mention a silly idea). If you're going to go with this stupid idea, you should at least recycle the Qur'ans.

I'd rather support free speech by not destroying what other people say. It defeats the point - free speech includes the right to argue against it.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Just because you have a freedom, that doesn't mean you should use it in just any way that comes to mind.

What message do you really think one is sending by burning a Koran? I don't mean the message in your head, but the message the Muslims get at the other end? Do you think they will see your protest as a fine philosophical point on political philosophy and Western cultural values, or will they see this as hatred directed against Islam and against God, equivalent to "fighting words"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Judy Crayton]

Christ said we are His Word to the world. We probably should watch for an opening to befriend them & hopefully, in time share the gospel. Burning their book seems antagonistic ... like revenge.
However, I don't appreciate President Obama blaming the man that burned the Quran for the murders. So did a few other statesmen. That is absolutely wrong. It is a freedom we have that we can choose to use or refrain from using. But they should have blamed the hatred of the Muslims that ran around murdering people for their own sin. They are sometimes chicken hearted and quick to put Americans down. That was irresponsible of our leaders.
Our choosing to love our enemy is a choice before God. Not something we are accountable to the UN or even USA for.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Its a great OP post by lawtonfogle. The true Christian response would not be to burn a Quran if proposed, but...
Bibles are confiscated and destroyed daily all over the world, a leading actor admits to tearing pages out of hotel Bibles, a gay baby fetish Jesus in a play JSTO, etc etc and no reaction apart from voiced objection, but as soon as a cartoon is drawn of the prophet Mohammed or a Quran is burned, death threads and death.
Yet the next thing we see are comments blaming religion for causing violence, ie tarring with the same brush the Christian reaction with the Islamic one, and attacks in this case on the Christian who burned the book rather than the Muslims who killed the people.
One could be forgiven for suspecting the world simply hates Christianity and Christians as Christianity seems to get blamed whatever happens.

Bear in mind there was a lot of bad feeling towards Terry Jones putting the Quran on trial and finding it guilty; the Quran itself describes the Bible (Torah and Injil) as corrupted and denies the risen Son of God, Jesus Christ.

This is the double standards and hypocricy of liberal secualrism.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

So, would there be anything wrong with trying to start a movement to burn Koran (and any other books people want to) just to show this (where I live, because I'm talking about where I live) is the USA and we have freedom of speech, a freedom that we will exercise even when others threaten violence if we speak.

While I personally find the burning of books distasteful, it is like honey compared to limiting free speech. I say every American should go out and burn a book just to show they have the freedom to (and no, I don't actually care if you burn a Bible instead).

Why a Qu'ran? Why not a Bible? Why not a copy of On the Origin of Species?

Free speech hasn't been limited in the US, and burning Qu'rans has not been outlawed.

So why suggest burning Qu'rans? Because you want to incite hatred and flick the bird at the Islamic community. Real mature.

I agree with religious&reasonable: can you? Yes. Should you? No. Why? Because it's a gorram stupid idea.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Its a great OP post by lawtonfogle. The true Christian response would not be to burn a Quran if proposed, but...
Bibles are confiscated and destroyed daily all over the world, a leading actor admits to tearing pages out of hotel Bibles, a gay baby fetish Jesus in a play JSTO, etc etc and no reaction apart from voiced objection, but as soon as a cartoon is drawn of the prophet Mohammed or a Quran is burned, death threads and death.

By Muslims, not liberal secularists. If you remember correctly, both liberals and conservatives banded together in defense of the cartoons.

Yet the next thing we see are comments blaming religion for causing violence, ie tarring with the same brush the Christian reaction with the Islamic one, and attacks in this case on the Christian who burned the book rather than the Muslims who killed the people.
One could be forgiven for suspecting the world simply hates Christianity and Christians as Christianity seems to get blamed whatever happens.

Oh, get off your high horse. You only see Christianity being persecuted because you a) ignore the plight of non-Christians, b) live in a primarily Christian culture, c) equate secularism with anti-Christian sentiment, and d) don't equate secularism with anti-Semitic or anti-Islamic sentiment.

In other words, your condemnation is a quintessential example of confirmation bias.

Bear in mind there was a lot of bad feeling towards Terry Jones putting the Quran on trial and finding it guilty; the Quran itself describes the Bible (Torah and Injil) as corrupted and denies the risen Son of God, Jesus Christ.

This is the double standards and hypocricy of liberal secualrism.

What on Earth does any of that have to do with either liberalism or secularism?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I find book burning to be more offensive than flag burning. With that said...yeah go ahead if you want to.

Yeah, that.

However, if you feel the need to burn books - doesn't that imply (at the very least symbolically) that you want them destroyed? Not just the copies that are turned to ashes there, but the very content purged from the face of the earth?

In short: aren't you essentially using your right to free speech to protest against free speech, symbolically censoring specific texts by destroying them?

And then, of course, there's the Heine-connection:

In his 1821 play, Almansor, the German writer Heinrich Heine — referring to the burning of the Muslim holy book, the Qur'an, during the Spanish Inquisition — wrote, "Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings." ("Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.")

One century later, Heine's books were among the thousands of volumes that were torched by the Nazis in Berlin's Opernplatz. And we all know what followed a few years later, don't we?

 

[3sigma]

So, would there be anything wrong with trying to start a movement to burn Koran (and any other books people want to) just to show this (where I live, because I'm talking about where I live) is the USA and we have freedom of speech, a freedom that we will exercise even when others threaten violence if we speak.

Yes, that’s a great idea. Why not give the Islamic militants even more reason to hate the US? It’s worked out pretty well so far, hasn’t it? After all, what could they do about it? It’s not like they’d fly planes into buildings or anything, would they?

 

[solarwave]

It is also legal to have sex outside of marriage, but many Christians would disagree with doing it just because we can. Just because we can it doesn't mean we should.

 

[ChrisLeishy]

I think this needs the same thing everything else gets on the forum "we better not do that because we cant find an example of it in the new testament" we better look for an example of doing that from our lord.

Is there a verse in the bible that says go ye into the world and do stupid things that infuriate people?


This book burning is getting dated its sorta getting boring. Cant we have something new like using it for toilet paper, that would at least be a different sort of thing It makes for variety.

lol I don't believe this sometimes...

 

[lawtonfogle]

Has there been some movement in Congress or the Senate to outlaw free speech? Would burning Qurans somehow prevent these proposed limitations on speech from happening in your opinion? Would the resultant problems caused by the incitement / provocation of a large scale Quran burning spree actually lead to the very prohibitions you are worried about?

Not one by law makers, but there seems to be a growing voice who want to outlaw it because of the violent reactions, and there are other cases where free speech is getting hammered on.

 

[lawtonfogle]

If you convince other people to do it, is it really free speech? It seems like more of a poser thing to start such a trend. Free thinkers who speak their mind engage in free speech. Sheep follow others.

Depends. It is like giving a standing ovation. The first few people who stand are leaders. The last few are followers. But exactly when the leaders end and the followers begin is unclear. Even if someone stands before you, you still have to be a leader to follow his example, because you are going against the rest of the crowd. So even if 1 million people engaged in it, they would still be leaders assuming they were distributed around. If it was merely everyone in a couple of counties, it would be more about people following a subset of those who did it, who were leaders.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Just because you have a freedom, that doesn't mean you should use it in just any way that comes to mind.

What message do you really think one is sending by burning a Koran? I don't mean the message in your head, but the message the Muslims get at the other end? Do you think they will see your protest as a fine philosophical point on political philosophy and Western cultural values, or will they see this as hatred directed against Islam and against God, equivalent to "fighting words"?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Should I limit my free speech by having to consider how others would interpret it? Consider how extreme some religions get, especially the ones more akin to a cult, and even honest questioning of the religion becomes fighting words.

 

[3sigma]

Is there a verse in the bible that says go ye into the world and do stupid things that infuriate people?

Aren’t there quite a few verses that encourage Christians to proselytise?

 

[lawtonfogle]

Its a great OP post by lawtonfogle. The true Christian response would not be to burn a Quran if proposed, but...

True Christians live all over the world where free speech isn't allowed. Burning to incite violence would not be Christian, burning to show support of freedom of speech is.

Bibles are confiscated and destroyed daily all over the world, a leading actor admits to tearing pages out of hotel Bibles, a gay baby fetish Jesus in a play JSTO, etc etc and no reaction apart from voiced objection, but as soon as a cartoon is drawn of the prophet Mohammed or a Quran is burned, death threads and death.
Yet the next thing we see are comments blaming religion for causing violence, ie tarring with the same brush the Christian reaction with the Islamic one, and attacks in this case on the Christian who burned the book rather than the Muslims who killed the people.
One could be forgiven for suspecting the world simply hates Christianity and Christians as Christianity seems to get blamed whatever happens.

Off topic, but this is mostly because Christianity is the dominant religion in most of the first world (though in Europe no religion at all seems most dominant).

Bear in mind there was a lot of bad feeling towards Terry Jones putting the Quran on trial and finding it guilty; the Quran itself describes the Bible (Torah and Injil) as corrupted and denies the risen Son of God, Jesus Christ.

This is the double standards and hypocricy of liberal secualrism.

It isn't a double standard if it is based on giving into the violent demands and reactions... then it becomes something worse.