Burdens caused by wrong interpretaions

[maco]

There are a hand full of wrongfully interpreted verses that have placed upon God's people a heavy dietary burden which can lead to fear, guilt and division among the boby of Christ.

The first verse I want to look at is found in 1 Corinthians 6:19.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

There are people who will take this verse and apply it to food. This is a wrong interpretation of this verse and very misleading.

When trying to understand what a verse is saying we have to go to the context of the verse. If we don't, we will find oursleves making verses say whatever we want them to say.

According to the context of this verse, Paul makes a specific statement which tells us God is not refering to what we eat in verse 19. Lets see what Paul says in the verses prior to verse 19.

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, but God will destroy them both in the end. According to this statement, as well as, the context of the verses, Paul is not referring to what we eat when he says our bodies belong to God. The whole context of the verses are not referring to what we eat, but rather, the sexual immoral acts we do with our body. There is a big diffence. As a matter of fact this same Paul tells us that the Kingdom of God is not in what we eat or drink.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself tells us that what goes into the mouth is not what defiles us, but rather, what comes out does. The reason for this is because what comes out of the mouth comes from the heart.

Some people will say that Jesus was referring to eating with unwashed hands in that verse. This is true but it still does not negate the powerful statement of Jesus. It wouldn't make a difference if it was dirty dishes, dirty hands or white sugar, the saying is still powerfully true and applies to everything that enters into the mouth.

Now lets go back to 1 Corinthians 6:19 and understand it using the whole context. Then you will see how this verse was not written to teach dietary rules, but rather, sexual immoral rules. There is a big difference.

1 Corinthians 6:9-20 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "The two,'' He says, "shall become one flesh.'' But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

There is another verse used to control people's diet and its found in 1 Corintians 3:16-17.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

The context of this verse is not referring to our bodies, but rather, the temple of God, which is the church. Read the context carefully and you will see how Paul is speaking to a group of baby Christians who are defiling the temple of God with envy, strife, and divisions. He goes on to talk about how this temple is built, which is the church.

1 Corinthians 3:1-18 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, "I am of Paul,'' and another, "I am of Apollos,'' are you not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become manifest; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.

Did you notice that when Paul spoke of them being the temple he was speaking to that same group of baby Christians. It's these people who are the temple of God. The Spirit dwells in a people which makes them as a group the temple of God. The temple of God is being defiled by envy, strife, and divisions this tells me he is not referring to a literal body, but rather, the body of Christ or His people.

There is another verse that people misuse to promote special dietary rules which if not followed are called sinful. It's found in 1 Corinthians 10:31.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Some people take this verse and use it to promote strict dietary regualtions. But this verse is not teaching us this, as a matter of fact, it's teaching us just the opposite.

Lets carefully look at the whole context.

1 Corinthians 10:23-33 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful; all things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; for "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness.'' If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols,'' do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness.'' Conscience, I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Therefore, whether we eat or drink do it to the glory of God. The word (therefore) tells me that what Paul is about to say is based on what was said prior. We know from reading what came prior Paul is not taking about what not to eat, but rather, how to eat. In other words, how to eat in front of a weaker brother. There is a big difference. We glorify God by not eating or drinking in front of a weaker brother to cause him to stumble. This verse has nothing to do with dietary health rules or eating only certain foods.

Let us not put undue burdens on God's people by misiterpreting verses to promote a health aggenda. Don't get me wrong, health is good but not when it begins to effect our spiritual health through warrantless guilt and condemnation.

 

[maco]

Oh no another type O...Interpretation.

This Maco guy is not too bright. I say we stone him.

Yah...Stone him!!!

I'm only kidding

 

[capnator]

Dear Maco what should S.D.A's do with the health message? We have the writings of E.G.W who has given us reams of information regarding this. You do not need to look at E.G.W to see that these things are so!

Are the standards the church has set too high, maybe falsley so as you seem to advocate? Salvation is truely by faith alone, but don't go for the lowest possible standard... follow this seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; Look to honour God in every single area of your life.

Health is one of our greatest assests, it is not right for a Christian to in any way abuse their Physical bodies.

1 cr 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

Those training for earthly glory show more disciplined and that's not how it should be, we have a much greater prize!

we are told , Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

This includes Gloryfing God in the Physical sphere.

Food is not sin, not giving your all to God is, and that includes your physical body.

 

[capnator]

I have a question for you.

When you become a christian do you still own your body, is it yours to do with as you please?

 

[JonMiller]

I don't think that those things are sin. I do think that we will be blessed if we take care of our bodies (with food and drink also), and it is a sad thing to reject a blessing from God.

I use to not treat my body so nicely, and I decided that it was making me unhappy. I have spent the last year and a half treating it better, and I feel better and healthier, and I want to do even better.

I am talking about getting in shape here, but the same general idea is served with alcohol, tobacco, and other such things also.

I disagree with members of the adventist church calling such things sins (I don't think that the 28 fundamental beleifs even do so), I agree with such things being discouraged as unhealthy, and health being encouraged.

JM

 

[capnator]

I disagree with members of the adventist church calling such things sins (I don't think that the 28 fundamental beleifs even do so), I agree with such things being discouraged as unhealthy, and health being encouraged.

JM

To knowingly destroy your body is sinful! It's suicide. Some people may not know about health, and we aren't to judge.

If you know and don't do, then that is between you and God.

 

[maco]

I have a question for you.

When you become a christian do you still own your body, is it yours to do with as you please?

We belong to Christ but this does not mean we have the right to take away the freedom which is in Christ. We can not call things sinful when in fact God does not call them sinful. We can not raise the bar when God Himself has not raised the bar. We can not say it is unlawfull to heal on the Sabbath just so we can increase our holiness. We can not not set the standard for holiness and righteousness in the lives of other people by calling things sinful that are not sinful.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy but eating meat and drinking wine does not constitute being unhealthy. I can run 10 miles so that makes me pretty healthy. You can only run two miles does that make you unhealthy? Am I more holier than you because I can run 10 miles and you can't?

Am I more holier than the next guy because I don't drink wine or eat meat?

Taking care of our bodies is a personal responsibility for the Christian, as well as, the pagan.

Let us offer health programs as a ministry to help people enjoy life not as a means of holiness. We are no more holy if we eat or not for the kingdom of God is NOT in what we eat or drink, but rather, in righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Peace does not come from undue burdens nor does joy come from obstaining from things that God has not called us to obstain from neither are we any more righteous if we eat or not. So why make these things an excessive issue of false holiness in people's lives? Offer health as a ministry not as a burden for righteousness and holiness.

 

[capnator]

Taking care of our bodies is a personal responsibility for the Christian, as well as, the pagan.

If it's up to the individual am I then within my rights to sacrifice a bit of health and a bit longevity for the enjoyment of food and drink?

 

[maco]

If it's up to the individual am I then within my rights to sacrifice a bit of health and a bit longevity for the enjoyment of food and drink?

Those are strong and misleading words you use but I got some even better.

Am I allowed to go SCUBA diving knowing the dangers and how people die SCUBA diving?

Am I allowed to go mountain climbing knowing that people fall to their death while climbing?

Am I allowed to drive a motorcycle knowing the chance of death is higher than driving a car?

Life was made to live, now saying that, we take our precautions.

If I want to SCUBA dive I get certified first, use commonsense and abide by the rules.

If I want to mountain climb I first need to be trained and abide by the rules.

If I want to ride a motorcycle I first have to get a license, wear a helmet be careful for the other guy.

If I want to eat meat I have to make sure it's cooked good and make sure it's the leanest meat. I would also get a physical once a year not only because of what I eat but also because of life itself.

If I want to drink wine I have to drink in moderation as to not to get drunk because drunkenness is the sin of wine just as adultery is the sin of sex but neither are sinful in themselves.

If I choose to eat only vegetables I have to be careful too. I would need to get a physical every year to make sure my body is not destroying itself for lack of many essentels that are not found in a vegetable only diet.

But do you know the more important thing? Weather I eat meat or only vegetables I can not condemn anyone who does not nor can I use my eating or not eating as a means of holiness or righteousness for neither has any bearing as long as they are done in line with the word of God....Amen

 

[Endium]

Whether it is eating, drinking, or any action, it does not save us if we do it or do not do it. We are saved by faith and faith alone. Whatever action we take, it is not for the purpose of being saved.

With that said, the health message is a critical message for this time. Abstaining from meat is not just about making up a new rule so that we can boast in our self-sacrifice. It is also not just something that was made up without any basis or foundation.

Keeping away from meat, sugar, and all other foods covered in the health message has strong spiritual aspects to it. I think some of us are missing the whole point of vegetarianism for us Adventists.

To refrain from eating meat in this day and age is a biblically based principle. We don't do it just because Ellen White said so. I think it is time that we educated ourselves on the reasons for our beliefs.

I am speaking all of this from experience. As a born Adventist, I grew up a vegetarian and just went along with it, assuming it was just the right thing to do. I believed that the only reason not to eat meat, cheese, etc... was to keep me healthy.

It wasn't until I really studied it for myself, to see where these ideas came from and why, did I understand their deeper meaning. Whether you eat meat or do not eat meat, it is not a test of fellowship, but it is also not a trivial matter that should be left up to one's own logic. The least we can do it look at the specific and detailed reasons Ellen White gave for each advisement on about food, and from there see if it is a right thing to do.

 

[maco]

Whether it is eating, drinking, or any action, it does not save us if we do it or do not do it. We are saved by faith and faith alone. Whatever action we take, it is not for the purpose of being saved.

With that said, the health message is a critical message for this time. Abstaining from meat is not just about making up a new rule so that we can boast in our self-sacrifice. It is also not just something that was made up without any basis or foundation.

Keeping away from meat, sugar, and all other foods covered in the health message has strong spiritual aspects to it. I think some of us are missing the whole point of vegetarianism for us Adventists.

To refrain from eating meat in this day and age is a biblically based principle. We don't do it just because Ellen White said so. I think it is time that we educated ourselves on the reasons for our beliefs.

I am speaking all of this from experience. As a born Adventist, I grew up a vegetarian and just went along with it, assuming it was just the right thing to do. I believed that the only reason not to eat meat, cheese, etc... was to keep me healthy.

It wasn't until I really studied it for myself, to see where these ideas came from and why, did I understand their deeper meaning. Whether you eat meat or do not eat meat, it is not a test of fellowship, but it is also not a trivial matter that should be left up to one's own logic. The least we can do it look at the specific and detailed reasons Ellen White gave for each advisement on about food, and from there see if it is a right thing to do.

To refrain from eating meat in this day and age is a biblically based principle.

Yes it is but not in a good way.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

It seems to me that in the New Testament we find a relaxing of the dietary rules, not an amplification of them.

1 Corinthians 10:23-30 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful; all things are lawful for me, but all things do not edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; for "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness.'' If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols,'' do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness.'' Conscience, I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?

1 Corinthians 6:12-13 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

When something is lawful it means it's not against God. When Paul says all things may not be helpful this tells me that its not really an issue to be focused on to the point of burdening the soul. When we call things sinful, when in fact they are not, we can sear the conscience and produce weaker brothers and sisters for it's the weaker one who is offended by eating meat or drinking wine.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

Let us teach and promote good health to help people overcome health issues and to help others experience the joy of having a healthy body. But let us not teach these things as a standard for holiness or righteousness for the kingdom of God is not in what we eat or drink.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Oh no another type O...Interpretation.

This Maco guy is not too bright. I say we stone him.

Yah...Stone him!!!

I'm only kidding

Now if I could just find where my husband put our stones.

Typos are funny Maco. I shared one of my famous ones here not too long ago. A bunch of my friends and I were talking about foods we missed when we first gave them up, and I listed "crap". Not crab, but crap.

I thought I'd never live it down.

When I went into labor, my husband sent out a quick e-mail to his co-workers asking if any of them would be willing to take his shift that day.

He left out the "f" in shift as he was typing in such a hurry.

We got about 15 responses to the tune of "WE'VE BEEN TAKING IT FOR 7 YEARS ALREADY! WHAT'S ONE MORE DAY?"

Mooowhahahaha.

I was just playin' with ya.

As far as what you've stated in this thread, just remember this one thing:

You disagree with me vehemently, but I could possibly live many more years than you in order to share what *I* think. It's in your best interest to be healthy just so you can disagree with me longer.

Ready....set....go!

But seriously, we're told to hate the things of this world. The very first sacrifice, the killing of a(n) animal(s) came as a result of sin (to cover Adam and Eve). Death came as a result of sin, and it wasn't intended to be that way for us.

The hardest thing I gave up was bacon and pork chops. The rest? EASY! I can't have pork and that's just how it is, and I know you don't argue with me on that.

Once I did give it up though, I started reaping the benefits of that decision right away as far as my health goes.

The fact is that I could go to a restaurant this morning and order an extra side of bacon. I COULD eat it, but the bible tells me not to.

Look at all the animals listed as unclean. They really ARE unclean, and eating them is detrimental to our health. Long before science knew these animals could pass on diseases, our Father knew.

But now all animals are getting sick and our standards for inspecting them is getting lower and lower.

If you knew the fish served at your local restaurant came out of water that tested high for fecal matter, would you just chance it? Not me.

Twice I've had to buy lunch meat for my parents, and both times they asked for a 1/2 pound of beef and 1/2 pound of ham. The store used the same slicer machine for both meats. They didn't clean it in between.

If you order beef at a deli, you're getting pork too, in a round about way. If anyone has ordered it that day, you're getting it too.

It's just plain common sense honestly. Our animals in this country are very sick. Some are even dying, and they get slaughtered right along with the rest of them.

God gave us brains and we have to use them.

I made my decision a long time ago to come out of this world and be part of a peculiar people. I knew that wouldn't happen without some people calling me peculiar.....I expected it.

You start all these threads imposing your idea that we're too legalistic, but have you noticed none of us have started such a thread saying that you have to do these things too?

We're not the ones imposing our ideas on you. Just remember that.

And just because you've reached a conlcusion (he) about the matter, doesn't mean we haven't as well. Our conclusion is just different than yours. Amen?

 

[Endium]

Maco, I believe you are misinterpreting these texts. Paul is not giving any advice on whether it is ok to eat meat or not, or whether what we eat it is important or not.

I'm not sure how much research you have done into the background, history, and culture of the books you quoted. From my own studies however, these verses have become more clear to me.

First of all when Paul uses the word "meat", he is not specifically referring to just meat products, but to food in general. Just as "meat offerings" in Israelite sacrifices consisted of bread (flour and oil), the meat that Paul here speaks of could also refer to bread, fruit, veggies, etc... He may not be talking about animal products at all. If you look into what types of food were sacrificed to roman gods, you will find that it includes a wide variety of fruit, grains and cakes, along with wine and animal products.

More specifically, Paul's emphasis is on food sacrificed to idols. This was a big issue in his time, and Paul wanted to make it clear that any meat(any type of food) was not unclean just because it was offered to an idol. In Romans 14, Paul is speaking to a people where it is crystal clear on whether they should eat certain types of meat or not.

When Paul says that there is "nothing unclean of itself", is he doing away with the distinctions God made years ago? Not at all. These people were not confused on whether meat eating is ok or not. They were confused on whether it was ok to eat food offered to idols. So Paul was speaking in the context of whether food offered to idols is still clean. If we were living back in those times and read this letter, we would not be interpreting it to mean that it is ok to eat meat. We would read everything Paul says about food in the context of food offered to idols, because that was the issue.

My whole point is that I believe you are pulling a modern day interpretation of these scriptures, without first placing them in the context of how the original readers would have interpreted it. When it comes to reading scripture, you can't act as if it was written completely free of the culture and times it was written in. In our time and culture, food offered to idols is NOT a relevant issue. But meat-eating and health issues ARE big issues. When we go back to read ancient scripture, we can't read it as if Paul was addressing the main issues of our time. We must read it knowing that he was addressing the issues of his time.

You are right when you say it is wrong to call meat-eating in itself sinful. This is not something that should bring a group of believers down because of a difference in views. This is just a matter of living up to all the light that we know or should know.

Why is there so much importance on these forums about separating different acts as either sinful or not sinful? Sin is more then just any specific action. There is more to it than saying if you do X you are sinning but if you do Y you are not. Rather than seeking to pinpoint whether eating meat is a sin or not, why do we not just look for what is the best thing to do?

God expects us to live up to the knowledge He has made available. We are to live our lives completely for Him, and not ourselves. Whether if I choose to eat some chicken wings tonight is a sin or not, I know that it is not right(healthwise) for me to do it. And "to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is a sin." James 4:17

Whether if it is a sin to listen to a certain song or not, if it draws me from God, I need to stay away from it. Whether if it is a sin to play a certain game or not, if it keeps me from hearing God's voice clearly then I shouldn't play it. Whether if eating meat or drinking wine is a sin or not, If doing either puts me in a state where I am not 24/7 willing, able, and available to do what God calls me to do, I should keep myself from them!

I know the reasons why I shouldn't eat meat. God wants me to live up to the knowledge I have. We need to stop trying to categorize different actions as sins or not sins. It is true that it is wrong to abstain from meat to make yourself "holy" or "righteous." Christ alone is our righteousness, and our own righteousness is and always will be as filthy rags. While we do not want to condemn people for eating meat or tell them they are going to hell, we have a solemn responsibility to educated others on the reasons meat eating is now wrong.

As Adventists, we should dare not to take this health message lightly. This is a serious matter. Ezekiel 3:17-18.

 

[Luv2fish]

If I may add my 2 cents: We are starting from the assumption that the health message is a burden. Is it really? Are a few scattered church members judging others as not worthy because they eat meat or unclean foods? If that's the case, those types are going to judge regarding clothing, choice of music, color of carpet, etc. The issue is not whether the law has been relaxed or not, its that certain people are creating burdens for others.
In the OT, God calls eating unclean food an abomination. (Along with quite a few other activities.) None of the other abominations have been recinded. I can't believe that, after the cross, He would decide it was not longer an abomination. That's a pretty strong emotion to just change for whatever reason.
As others have said, we know it's not a test of fellowship or 'works' or anything other than just good health practices. Whoever is making it a burden on members has a problem ~ they shouldn't be judging.

 

[maco]

If I may add my 2 cents: We are starting from the assumption that the health message is a burden. Is it really? Are a few scattered church members judging others as not worthy because they eat meat or unclean foods? If that's the case, those types are going to judge regarding clothing, choice of music, color of carpet, etc. The issue is not whether the law has been relaxed or not, its that certain people are creating burdens for others.
In the OT, God calls eating unclean food an abomination. (Along with quite a few other activities.) None of the other abominations have been recinded. I can't believe that, after the cross, He would decide it was not longer an abomination. That's a pretty strong emotion to just change for whatever reason.
As others have said, we know it's not a test of fellowship or 'works' or anything other than just good health practices. Whoever is making it a burden on members has a problem ~ they shouldn't be judging.

Do you think that if someone continues to drink wine after hearing the SDA health message they will not enter the kingdom of God?

Do you think that if a woman continues to wear jewelry after hearing the SDA teaching on jewelry they will not enter into the kingdom of God?

 

[maco]

Maco, I believe you are misinterpreting these texts. Paul is not giving any advice on whether it is ok to eat meat or not, or whether what we eat it is important or not.

I'm not sure how much research you have done into the background, history, and culture of the books you quoted. From my own studies however, these verses have become more clear to me.

First of all when Paul uses the word "meat", he is not specifically referring to just meat products, but to food in general. Just as "meat offerings" in Israelite sacrifices consisted of bread (flour and oil), the meat that Paul here speaks of could also refer to bread, fruit, veggies, etc... He may not be talking about animal products at all. If you look into what types of food were sacrificed to roman gods, you will find that it includes a wide variety of fruit, grains and cakes, along with wine and animal products.

More specifically, Paul's emphasis is on food sacrificed to idols. This was a big issue in his time, and Paul wanted to make it clear that any meat(any type of food) was not unclean just because it was offered to an idol. In Romans 14, Paul is speaking to a people where it is crystal clear on whether they should eat certain types of meat or not.

When Paul says that there is "nothing unclean of itself", is he doing away with the distinctions God made years ago? Not at all. These people were not confused on whether meat eating is ok or not. They were confused on whether it was ok to eat food offered to idols. So Paul was speaking in the context of whether food offered to idols is still clean. If we were living back in those times and read this letter, we would not be interpreting it to mean that it is ok to eat meat. We would read everything Paul says about food in the context of food offered to idols, because that was the issue.

My whole point is that I believe you are pulling a modern day interpretation of these scriptures, without first placing them in the context of how the original readers would have interpreted it. When it comes to reading scripture, you can't act as if it was written completely free of the culture and times it was written in. In our time and culture, food offered to idols is NOT a relevant issue. But meat-eating and health issues ARE big issues. When we go back to read ancient scripture, we can't read it as if Paul was addressing the main issues of our time. We must read it knowing that he was addressing the issues of his time.

You are right when you say it is wrong to call meat-eating in itself sinful. This is not something that should bring a group of believers down because of a difference in views. This is just a matter of living up to all the light that we know or should know.

Why is there so much importance on these forums about separating different acts as either sinful or not sinful? Sin is more then just any specific action. There is more to it than saying if you do X you are sinning but if you do Y you are not. Rather than seeking to pinpoint whether eating meat is a sin or not, why do we not just look for what is the best thing to do?

God expects us to live up to the knowledge He has made available. We are to live our lives completely for Him, and not ourselves. Whether if I choose to eat some chicken wings tonight is a sin or not, I know that it is not right(healthwise) for me to do it. And "to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is a sin." James 4:17

Whether if it is a sin to listen to a certain song or not, if it draws me from God, I need to stay away from it. Whether if it is a sin to play a certain game or not, if it keeps me from hearing God's voice clearly then I shouldn't play it. Whether if eating meat or drinking wine is a sin or not, If doing either puts me in a state where I am not 24/7 willing, able, and available to do what God calls me to do, I should keep myself from them!

I know the reasons why I shouldn't eat meat. God wants me to live up to the knowledge I have. We need to stop trying to categorize different actions as sins or not sins. It is true that it is wrong to abstain from meat to make yourself "holy" or "righteous." Christ alone is our righteousness, and our own righteousness is and always will be as filthy rags. While we do not want to condemn people for eating meat or tell them they are going to hell, we have a solemn responsibility to educated others on the reasons meat eating is now wrong.

As Adventists, we should dare not to take this health message lightly. This is a serious matter. Ezekiel 3:17-18.

Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

This verse tells me that the weaker brother is the one who believes eating meat and drinking wine is sinful or wrong.

 

[JonMiller]

If I know that I have a hard time resisting a temptation, then it is important for me to stay away from that temptation entirely. There is nothing bad about being a 'weaker' brother. Most likely we all have areas of temptation which we have difficulties with, and should just stay completely away from.

JM

 

[maco]

I would like you to read these words carefully and tell me what the Lord reveals.

Romans 14:14-17 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Pay close attention to how Paul tells us that our freedom to eat is a good thing so don't let your good thing be spoken of as though it is evil.

 

[JonMiller]

"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died."

JM

 

[maco]

"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died."

JM

Amen...

I believe the health ministry is a good thing but it manipulates the Scriptures to fit many of the things it promotes. This is not a good thing.