Buddhism or Taoism

[Velo Princesse]

What is the fundamental difference(s) between Buddhism and Taoism?

It seems like one is a focus on what where we come from and where we want to go (the life force of the universe, harmonizing with said life force, etc.) and the other is an understanding of how to do do that (the Four Noble Truths, The Eightfold Path, etc.). Do they compliment each other or am I just totally misunderstanding them?

Thank you.

 

[belladom]

My advice is not too worry about this. From wiki we can say that Taoism three fundamental truths: compassion (reaching out), humility (reaching in), and moderation (not reaching). Those appear as the most important things about taoism and it's practical, you can put it to work in your daily life if you try. Now Buddhism. Seems to focus on suffering. All life is suffering. The cause of suffering is desire. The end of desire is the end of suffering. The path that leads to the end of suffering is the eight fold path or Buddhism. The difference is one of numbers and the similarity is one.

 

[Velo Princesse]

My advice is not too worry about this. From wiki we can say that Taoism three fundamental truths: compassion (reaching out), humility (reaching in), and moderation (not reaching). Those appear as the most important things about taoism and it's practical, you can put it to work in your daily life if you try. Now Buddhism. Seems to focus on suffering. All life is suffering. The cause of suffering is desire. The end of desire is the end of suffering. The path that leads to the end of suffering is the eight fold path or Buddhism. The difference is one of numbers and the similarity is one.

Are you a Taoist? Buddhist?

Thanks.

 

[peter22]

They're exactly the same, except for the fundamentally different bits.

 

[Velo Princesse]

They're exactly the same, except for the fundamentally different bits.

That was helpful.

 

[Velo Princesse]

My advice is not too worry about this. From wiki we can say that Taoism three fundamental truths: compassion (reaching out), humility (reaching in), and moderation (not reaching). Those appear as the most important things about taoism and it's practical, you can put it to work in your daily life if you try. Now Buddhism. Seems to focus on suffering. All life is suffering. The cause of suffering is desire. The end of desire is the end of suffering. The path that leads to the end of suffering is the eight fold path or Buddhism. The difference is one of numbers and the similarity is one.

I want to talk to you about the words I put in bold. Are you saying that the difference is just a matter of how many steps you take to achieve those three fundamental truths? In other words, is it simply that in Taoism you strive, in whatever way you can , to be compassionate, humble and moderate whereas is Buddhism you follow the eightfold path to (hopefully) achieve the same end?

My trouble right now is that I know that my path lies in eastern religion. I've been trying to study Buddhism, but the books are fairly often a bit beyond me. I started looking at Taoism and while the basic premise speaks profoundly to me, I am having a very difficult time finding a resource that will help me move beyond the basics to the exact why's and how's of it.

So, where do I find more in-depth information about the Tao? Where do I find a "beginners" version of Buddhism? Is it possible to be both a Buddhist and a Taoist?

Unfortunately, I don't have a place to go here where I can speak to a Monk.

 

[kit]

OH BOY!!!


Tao is about recognizing nature. (TO SIMPLIFY TO THE EXTREME)

Buddhism is about overcoming our nature (TO SIMPLIFY TO THE EXTREME)

I am sure I will get some flak for saying this BUT, Zen (Chan) really is a blending of Buddhism and Tao. (read 'The Tao of Zen')

You can be both Buddhist and Taoist. Reconciling the basic understandings of the two can be a bit tricky though. Zen is the school of Buddhism that does do that though. Buddhism is heavy into the 'rational' and tao is very much about intuition.

You can read the Toa Te Qing or the I Qing for Tao. The Buddhism would depend on what type of Buddhism you are interested in. I am Theravada. I would suspect though that the Mahayana schools of Buddhism would be more compatible with Tao. Mahayana and Tao are part of what is sometimes called the "Chinese Religious Complex". Billions of people have reconciled the differences.

 

[Velo Princesse]

OH BOY!!!


Tao is about recognizing nature. (TO SIMPLIFY TO THE EXTREME)

Buddhism is about overcoming our nature (TO SIMPLIFY TO THE EXTREME)

I am sure I will get some flak for saying this BUT, Zen (Chan) really is a blending of Buddhism and Tao. (read 'The Tao of Zen')

You can be both Buddhist and Taoist. Reconciling the basic understandings of the two can be a bit tricky though. Zen is the school of Buddhism that does do that though. Buddhism is heavy into the 'rational' and tao is very much about intuition.

You can read the Toa Te Qing or the I Qing for Tao. The Buddhism would depend on what type of Buddhism you are interested in. I am Theravada. I would suspect though that the Mahayana schools of Buddhism would be more compatible with Tao. Mahayana and Tao are part of what is sometimes called the "Chinese Religious Complex". Billions of people have reconciled the differences.

I have for a long time believed that there is a "spirit" (not the right word) that is here, has always been here, and is part of all things. I have been known to profess that the reason we are always looking for God is because we, as a species, have separated from that "spirit" and that re-aligning with it will fill the void.

Moving on from there, I believe that a combination of the Eight Fold Path, meditation practices, and the Three Jewels (compassion, moderation, modesty) is the best way to re-align yourself with the "spirit."

I do not believe in any god, reincarnation, or a sentient universe.

I changed my icon to Taoism because the core of my belief (the "spirit") seems to describe the Tao based on what I can find on the internet (there are only two Tao books at my library). However, when you describe it as "intuition" rather than "rational" I question my understanding of what I've read... I think my icon will go back into hiding while I figure it out.

I make a habit of reading books by the Dalai Lama, but I kind of feel like you need an education which could rival a Ph.D. in Philosophy before you can claim Buddhism. Quite often, I don't follow it and have been told in the past that I "completely misinterpreted the teaching."

I'm not trying to wedge myself into a box... just to find out who I am already and how I can become a better person. I want to find my path and walk it. Feel free to advise me. I have no monk to speak to here, so I have to work this out alone and any help is certainly welcome.

 

[kit]

You sound Taoist.

Intuition and rational are imprecise words. I meant them as very broad terms. I did not mean to imply that Taoism is "ir-rational". Tao is very much about "spirit" or more precisely "energy". Yin/Yang.

Tao "feels". Buddhism "Thinks". The eightfold path is pretty concrete. Tao is about balance so is more fluid. hot/cold Male/female high/low

I claim Buddhism simply because I took the triple refuge. Simple enough. I try to live by the eightfold path. I am Buddhist. Simple. Trying to understand all there is to offer in Buddhism at one time would be too much! Not understanding the whole ball of wax from the git-go doesn't disqualify one from being Buddhist. Never learning it all for that matter doesn't disqualify one. I too don't believe in a God (in the way Westerners do). Nor do I believe in a "sentient Universe" ala New Age. I tend to believe in reincarnation though it isn't much of a focus for me.

I wonder if what you call "spirit" would be more accurately called chi. That is what I think you "mean" and is a Taoist understanding. Chinese medicine relies on understanding Chi. so if you study a bit about the basics of Classical Chinese Medicine you will understand a bit more about Tao. Qi-Gong is very Tao-that is the Chinese style of exercise (tai-chi)

Those are some hints. I am not intimate with Taoism myself. I do like it and what it represents and does though.

 

[Velo Princesse]

You sound Taoist.

Intuition and rational are imprecise words. I meant them as very broad terms. I did not mean to imply that Taoism is "ir-rational". Tao is very much about "spirit" or more precisely "energy". Yin/Yang.

Tao "feels". Buddhism "Thinks". The eightfold path is pretty concrete. Tao is about balance so is more fluid. hot/cold Male/female high/low

I thought I sounded Taoist also. So, I'm not misunderstanding anything about it, as far as you can tell?

You said earlier that reconciling the basic understandings of Taoism and Buddism can be a bit tricky. How is that? They seem to blend well, but I might be misunderstanding something. Is there something, for example, about the eightfold path that creates a difficulty?

I claim Buddhism simply because I took the triple refuge. Simple enough. I try to live by the eightfold path. I am Buddhist. Simple. Trying to understand all there is to offer in Buddhism at one time would be too much! Not understanding the whole ball of wax from the git-go doesn't disqualify one from being Buddhist. Never learning it all for that matter doesn't disqualify one. I too don't believe in a God (in the way Westerners do). Nor do I believe in a "sentient Universe" ala New Age. I tend to believe in reincarnation though it isn't much of a focus for me.

So, if I follow the eightfold path but have the beliefs I mentioned earlier, am I Buddhist? (I hate questions like that, btw.) Is there a place that you recommend I "start" with regards to the eightfold path? It is a lot to take in all at once.

Basically, I believe that when we pass on we become part of the energy of the universe again. I don't believe that we remain sentient, but do believe that we leave an energy of love and protection around those that we were the closest to. i.e. our children, dearest friends, parents, ect.

I wonder if what you call "spirit" would be more accurately called chi. That is what I think you "mean" and is a Taoist understanding. Chinese medicine relies on understanding Chi. so if you study a bit about the basics of Classical Chinese Medicine you will understand a bit more about Tao. Qi-Gong is very Tao-that is the Chinese style of exercise (tai-chi)

Noun

S: (n) qi, chi, ch'i, ki (the circulating life energy that in Chinese philosophy is thought to be inherent in all things; in traditional Chinese medicine the balance of negative and positive forms in the body is believed to be essential for good health)

YES!!! That is what I mean! Thanks!

Those are some hints. I am not intimate with Taoism myself. I do like it and what it represents and does though.

I really appreciate your help. The interaction is much more beneficial to me than websites. Unfortunately, I can't get books right now and since anyone can own a website I am always leery of what they say.

This is so funny to me because when I became a Christian as a teenager I didn't feel the need to be a Biblical scholar before I said I was Christian. Now, I am nervous about owning an identity without quite a lot of knowledge. Just something I noticed....

 

[kit]

Tricky. OOooh. How do I elaborate.

Buddhism is about overcoming Karma. Ending our tethering to the wheel of becoming. (reincarcation) It is about training the mind to transcend the banale world and our actions and ties to it.

Toaism is oriented toward life in the natural world. Being a part of the world. "living life to the fullest" in a way. Tao and Chi are to be experienced. joined into.

The start with quite different approaches. Tao sees person as part of a whole. A microcosm of the Universe. Buddhism says we are compounded by our desires and karma.

Each use meditation though. Each value wisdom. Taoist would be inclined to let awareness 'come' to them. Buddhists are inclined to practice meditations to train the mind to 'find' awareness. So they are not mutually exclusive exactly. The reason I keep mentioning Zen is because they do blend the two kind of well. They meditate in the way other Buddhists do and they also use illogical puzzles to "break" the mind (transecend), intuit or even sometimes use a whack with a stick. That is the taoist part.

I don't think that I have explained that well but I will keep trying.

What you believe about passing on is quite Taoist. Using 'right speech' 'right action' 'right vocation' 'right motivation' so on is the Buddhist side

Chi is Taoism-Karma is Buddhism

Taking the triple refuges is all that makes one Buddhist.

proclaim I take my refuge in the Buddha, I take,,,,Darmha(teachings),,,,,,the Sanga (religion/community)
A second time ,,,,,(all three). A third time I ,,,,, (all three).

poof you are a Buddhist.

it is customary to proclaim the training rules. (I do it in Pali-Theravada Buddhism's language)

I undertake the training rule to refrain from ,,,intoxicants, immoral sexual practices, taking what is not freely given, improper (unuseful)speech, killing sentient beings.

This is the rule for householders. Monks and nuns take five additional rules daily.

I applaud you on not "declaring" a religious identity out of the blue. Perhaps I will think of you as taoist/buddhist in lower case letters.

 

[Velo Princesse]

For some reason, I can't send PM's, but I would like to continue this conversation in a private venue if that is alright. If you will PM me your e-mail addy so I can write you, I would appreciate that.

I just don't want to post mine here and, like I said, I'm having trouble sending PM's or I'd give mine to you.

I really appreciate all of your help. The more you clear up for me the more taoist I know I am.

Hope to hear from you soon!

 

[kit]

I sent you my e-mail in a pm. Let's see if it works.

 

[uberd00b]

Taoism is the way.


(I <3 Taoism, I'd make a terrible Buddhist as I like stuff to much. And things, you gotta have things.)

 

[Orontes]

What is the fundamental difference(s) between Buddhism and Taoism?

Hello,

The fundamental differences between Taoism and Buddhism reflect the fundamental differences in civilizational backdrop/focus that produced them. Buddhism arose in many ways as a reaction to Hindu Brahman Tradition of the Sixth Century. It rejected both the basic caste system and underlying metaphysic of the same.* i.e. atman or any larger eternalist sentiment. Taoism is most effectively pared with Confucianism and as such reflects the romantic, personal and spontaneous within Chinese Thought.

Buddhism is a religion. It has been very evangelical and established a strong metaphysical tradition. It also has a cross-civilizational development (particularly in those areas that did not already have a strong metaphysical tradition). The conceptual core of Buddhist thinking is dukkha often translated as: suffering, disquiet or unsteady. Resolving dukkha, or its effects, is central to Buddhism. Buddhist Thought operates from the essential insights of the Buddha as found in the Four Noble Truths.

Taoism may be a religion, but is not essentially so. Taoism as a label can be applied to religious, folk and "philosophical" indigenous Chinese endeavors. For the most part, it has remained within those areas influenced by Chinese Civilization. In its oldest forms it was arguably primarily political in orientation.** The conceptual core of Taoist thinking (aside from the obvious referent to the Tao proper) in its more philosophical guise is wu-wei: often translated as non-action, or not-doing. There is no core canon to the thought though the Tao Ti Ching and Chuang Tsu's works often have a central place for speculative Taoism.

The intermingling of Taoist and Buddhist Thought in China is clear. This applies not only in the Taoist reaction to Buddhist Thought in and through Neo-Taoism, but also Taoist influence on Yogacara and/or Mahayana Buddhism i.e. the development of Zen.

Note: Chi was mentioned in this thread. Chi as a concept is not original to Taoist Thought. Further, the idea does not have a single unified meaning. It can refer to breath, vapor, energy, life force, heat, air etc.


* An illustration of this would be the Buddhist rejection of the concept atman (the underlying personal component of self within the universal) save for a possible source for samsara (cyclic birth). This was replaced with anatman (non-self) or the rejection of an abiding metaphysical personal.

**This is/was due to the strong tie between Lao Tsu and the Yellow Emperor.

 

[peter22]

That was helpful.

Only because you thought I was being sarcastic.

 

[Velo Princesse]

Only because you thought I was being sarcastic.

Okay. If you weren't being sarcastic, what exactly did you mean? Obviously the fundamental difference would be the fundamentally different things. The question was, "what are the things that are fundamentally different?". If what you said answered that, or even attempted to, please clarify for those of us who didn't follow.

 

[Velo Princesse]

Taoism is the way.


(I <3 Taoism, I'd make a terrible Buddhist as I like stuff to much. And things, you gotta have things.)

Stuff AND things??? I mean, I understanding liking stuff but wanting things also seems like overkill!

Hello,

The fundamental differences between Taoism and Buddhism reflect the fundamental differences in civilizational backdrop/focus that produced them. Buddhism arose in many ways as a reaction to Hindu Brahman Tradition of the Sixth Century. It rejected both the basic caste system and underlying metaphysic of the same.* i.e. atman or any larger eternalist sentiment. Taoism is most effectively pared with Confucianism and as such reflects the romantic, personal and spontaneous within Chinese Thought.

Buddhism is a religion. It has been very evangelical and established a strong metaphysical tradition. It also has a cross-civilizational development (particularly in those areas that did not already have a strong metaphysical tradition). The conceptual core of Buddhist thinking is dukkha often translated as: suffering, disquiet or unsteady. Resolving dukkha, or its effects, is central to Buddhism. Buddhist Thought operates from the essential insights of the Buddha as found in the Four Noble Truths.

Taoism may be a religion, but is not essentially so. Taoism as a label can be applied to religious, folk and "philosophical" indigenous Chinese endeavors. For the most part, it has remained within those areas influenced by Chinese Civilization. In its oldest forms it was arguably primarily political in orientation.** The conceptual core of Taoist thinking (aside from the obvious referent to the Tao proper) in its more philosophical guise is wu-wei: often translated as non-action, or not-doing. There is no core canon to the thought though the Tao Ti Ching and Chuang Tsu's works often have a central place for speculative Taoism.

The intermingling of Taoist and Buddhist Thought in China is clear. This applies not only in the Taoist reaction to Buddhist Thought in and through Neo-Taoism, but also Taoist influence on Yogacara and/or Mahayana Buddhism i.e. the development of Zen.

Note: Chi was mentioned in this thread. Chi as a concept is not original to Taoist Thought. Further, the idea does not have a single unified meaning. It can refer to breath, vapor, energy, life force, heat, air etc.


* An illustration of this would be the Buddhist rejection of the concept atman (the underlying personal component of self within the universal) save for a possible source for samsara (cyclic birth). This was replaced with anatman (non-self) or the rejection of an abiding metaphysical personal.

**This is/was due to the strong tie between Lao Tsu and the Yellow Emperor.

I'm too tired to think right now so I don't have a ton of comments and that makes me feel bad because of all the effort you clearly put into this post. Thank you so much for sharing this information. I really appreciate it even though I don't have a lot to say.

 

[peter22]

I'll explain in detail later...it's 2 am here.

 

[Velo Princesse]

I'll explain in detail later...it's 2 am here.

I understand and am looking forward to hearing from you.