Brothers in Scripture

[keith99]

First please forgive my intrusion into the Christians only area. But I have found many of the more knowledgible Christians rarely come to some of the more open areas.

It was in a thread there that teh story of the Prodigal son came up and along the way I realized that the 2 sons in that story were rivals and seem to not get along (farily mild in that story). But I was then able to recall 3 or 4 more instances of pretty active conflict between brothers.

Cain and Abel
Joseph and his brothers
The story on Onan and his brother
And while I do not recall Isaac and Ishmael being against eachother those decended from them more than make up for it.

Now I can think of a couple of cases of men being close, Jonathan and David and Jesus and the disciple he loved.

I'm sure I could find more to add to both lists.

But I can not think of a single instance of one brother talking a risk or making a sacrifice, let alone laying down his life for his brother.

I could make the argument that such was not noted because it was expected, and for getting along I buy the argument.

Still I would like to know of at leat one instance in scripture that notes brothers who are notable more for how well they got along instead of their conflict.

Thanks in advance, both to those who only post they cannot think of such a case and greater thanks for any who remeber one.

Keith

 

[joey_downunder]

In New Testament - according to some christian writers the Letter of James and the Letter of Jude were written by Jesus' brothers and they did die for Jesus i.e. martyrs.

Evidence for this theory:
And when Jesus had finished these parables, He went away from there, and coming to His own country He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, "Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas [i.e. Jude]? And are not all his sisters with us? " (Matthew 13:53-56 RSV)

However some churches e.g. Roman Catholic church deny that Jesus did have any brothers and sisters because they believe that the virgin Mary was an "ever virgin".

I wish those letters made it clearer if they really were Jesus actual younger brothers (i.e. same biological mother) or not.

 

[wayseer]

First please forgive my intrusion into the Christians only area. But I have found many of the more knowledgible Christians rarely come to some of the more open areas.

I'll take that as a compliment. But the reason why 'we' probably do not engage in the other parts of the forum is that the discussions are ... well ... pretty ordinary.

It was in a thread there that teh story of the Prodigal son came up and along the way I realized that the 2 sons in that story were rivals and seem to not get along (farily mild in that story). But I was then able to recall 3 or 4 more instances of pretty active conflict between brothers.

Cain and Abel
Joseph and his brothers
The story on Onan and his brother
And while I do not recall Isaac and Ishmael being against eachother those decended from them more than make up for it.

Now I can think of a couple of cases of men being close, Jonathan and David and Jesus and the disciple he loved.

I'm sure I could find more to add to both lists.

But I can not think of a single instance of one brother talking a risk or making a sacrifice, let alone laying down his life for his brother.

I could make the argument that such was not noted because it was expected, and for getting along I buy the argument.

Still I would like to know of at leat one instance in scripture that notes brothers who are notable more for how well they got along instead of their conflict.

Thanks in advance, both to those who only post they cannot think of such a case and greater thanks for any who remeber one.

Keith

Historically there was competition between males, particularly sons.

The whole edifice upon which cultural was built and around which society circulated was the concept of honour and shame.

At a time when money was not the earmark of status, honour and shame were tradable assets. A father was deserving of honour from his sons. Not to receive honour evoked shame. A son could shame his father as a father could shame his son. It was a negotiable asset. Sons then could get up to all sorts of shenanigans in their effort to manipulate the honour/shame system to their personal advantage.

The Cain and Abel story reflects this social reality played out before God.

 

[marktheblake]

First please forgive my intrusion into the Christians only area.

Its a surprise to have an agnostic( or an atheist) to actually consider and question the text based on what the text says without invoking their presuppositions.

Still I would like to know of at leat one instance in scripture that notes brothers who are notable more for how well they got along instead of their conflict.

First thing to come to mind, is Joseph and his brothers, when he as PM of Egypt went out of his way to help them in their time of need, particularly as he had the power to take his revenge on them, and we possibly wouldn't blame him if he did.

Apart from that, I cant really think of any Brotherly love stories, so you might be on to something.

 

[ebia]

Its a surprise to have an agnostic( or an atheist) to actually consider and question the text based on what the text says without invoking their presuppositions.

First thing to come to mind, is Joseph and his brothers, when he as PM of Egypt went out of his way to help them in their time of need, particularly as he had the power to take his revenge on them, and we possibly wouldn't blame him if he did.

Apart from that, I cant really think of any Brotherly love stories, so you might be on to something.

Joseph was my immediate thought as well.

Esau's acceptance and of and reconcilliation with Jacob when he returns is also pretty special.

 

[keith99]

Its a surprise to have an agnostic( or an atheist) to actually consider and question the text based on what the text says without invoking their presuppositions.

First thing to come to mind, is Joseph and his brothers, when he as PM of Egypt went out of his way to help them in their time of need, particularly as he had the power to take his revenge on them, and we possibly wouldn't blame him if he did.

Apart from that, I cant really think of any Brotherly love stories, so you might be on to something.

I happen to be a bit prigish when it comes to evidence and make no exceptions for Holy works. From my standpoint I have observed quite a few believers who come to scripture with preconceptions of their own. I prefer those in either camp who like or dislike scripture based on what it says. Honestly I think it is far easier for a non-believer to see what scripture says without personal temptation to shade it. Save of course those unbelievers who are anti Christian (or for that matter anti Jew).

Thanks for pointing out the end of the story of Joseph and his brothers. While the story is not all love and kisses the ending at leat is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[wayseer]

I happen to be a bit prigish when it comes to evidence and make no exceptions for Holy works. From my standpoint I have observed quite a few believers who come to scripture with preconceptions of their own. I prefer those in either camp who like or dislike scripture based on what it says. Honestly I think it is far easier for a non-believer to see what scripture says without personal temptation to shade it.

... and I guess you would exclude yourself from these priggish preconceptions?

 

[papaJP]

Since all of creation are my brothers in Christ I can say that some I love and some I do not associate with and some I do not know. Brotherly love comes from being in a relationship that allows you to know your brother and to develop a brotherly love relationsnhip.

As to scriptures they are written as they are to make a point and to teach a precept. Since the flesh and human nature are not based on love the bible correctly reflects the reality of conflict.