Brit Chadashah

[By Grace]

Okay, so now I'm confused (so what else is new? ). Is the B'rit Chadashah (sp?) a new covenant or a renewed covenant? What is the purpose of Y'shua's sacrifice if we still must follow the instructions of the Torah in order to receive the blessings and avoid the curses? Doesn't that reduce these instructions again to "do this or else..." rather than "do it b/c you love Me"?

Forgive me if this has been discussed ad nauseum (sp?) in the past. I'm still just having a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of willing servitude that is teetering precariously on the thin line between freedom of grace and legalistic obligation.
TIA,

 

[ShirChadash]

It seems to me there is a big reason why, all throughout the "New" Testament, there are cross-references galore to... the "Old" Testament. There's a reason for that. Nothing is "New" in the "New Testament" but that was already spoken of, and in place, in the "Old Testament". It is a renewed covenant. This doesn't mean there was nothing re-revealed, or spoken of in a fresh "newer" way, in the "New Testament".

JMHO.

 

[JewishHeart]

I didn't research the biblical Hebrew, but in modern Hebrew "chadash" means something brand new and "chidush" (noun) and "m'chudash" ( adjective) means something renewed. For instance if it was Renewed Covenant, exact translation in modern Hebrew would be Brit M'chudash( binyan hufal) or Brit HaChidush ( binyan piel).
Somebody that is brand new to a program is called Chadashim (new-comers) and returned or renewed people are either called "Chozrim" or "Chidushim." When you renew your wedding vows it is also called "chidushim."

so establishing Jer 31:31 "Brit Chadashah" as "Renewed Covenant" is wrong gramatically, you have to build a better case.

 

[JewishHeart]

Before establishing theology on a Hebrew word...study roots and binyanim (how to use these roots). You can establish a general idea by a root, but on how the root structure in a sentence defines a word. There are seven poel (verb) binyanim (how to use roots). Each binyan defines the action of the verb. For instance binyan hitpiel is sometimes used for doing something to yourself, the other option for hitpiel is doing something together with somebody else. Anything outside of these borders for a root that is used in hitpiel is out of line. Root structures also define nouns, adjectives, etc. When you know how to use roots really well, you can learn an adjective and know how to change this particular adjective into a noun, verb, synonym, anonym, adverb, etc. The options of learning Hebrew become great when knowing how the root system works. There is even symbols and meanings to each root. For instance, here is an interesting dynamic...

Rishon (first) comes from the same root as rosh (head) and as the beginning (breshit)
victory (nitzachon) comes from the same root as netzach (eternity)
to pay (lshalem) comes from the same root as peace (shalom) and complete (shalem)

this is just the beginning! Hebrew is an amazing language. When understanding roots, you understand the Tanach better as well and not only what the words mean, but exactly under which structure it is according to the binyan.

so from this I draw the conclusion that "brit Chadashah" does not mean "renewed covenant" but "new Covenant"

 

[By Grace]

so from this I draw the conclusion that "brit Chadashah" does not mean "renewed covenant" but "new Covenant"

Who titled the portion of Scripture written after Y'shua's death and resurrection "Brit Chadashah"? Perhaps it's mislabeled?

 

[JewishHeart]

it comes from the book of Hebrew's "Messiah is a mediator of a new covenant" and Jer 31:31 "behold I shall make a new covenant with the house of judah..."

 

[CharlesYTK]

Perhaps this was already said,

The Law is not the covenant. The Law is the Ketubah, the marriage contract or vows. What changed in Yeshua, (Predicted by Jerimiah) was a new kind of agreement, covenant, or to put it in other terms, relationship. This time rather than man being the teacher of the terms of the marriage contract (law) which was given by God, now in the new the Lord himself would instruct each man in this same law, by writing it upon their hearts.

In the old, the marriage was sort of conditional upon mans success in keeping the marriage contract. This time the Lord himself keeps it for us and through us by giving us the Ruachk Ha Kodesh.

Charles

 

[JewishHeart]

Charles,

well said!

 

[JewishHeart]

I just asked my wife if my interpretation of B'rit HaChadashah and Brit Mchudash was right in biblical Hebrew. She said it was exact. Chadash does not mean renewed, it means new. Mchudash means renewed. So we have to throw this interpretation of Jer 31:31 as Renewed Covenant out the window as far as semantics and Hebrew grammar goes.

 

[By Grace]

So let me see if I understand what you said, Charles. Before Y'shua's sacrifice, Jews could make minor mistakes, but so long as they were truly trying to honor the contract, HaShem would be faithful. They had to rely solely on what their rabbis or whatever taught them on how to interpret the contract requirements (thus, the oral law?). But if they turned their back on Him, He turned His back on them.

But now, all we have to do is make that initial decision to accept the sacrifice made for us. Then we can completely turn our backs on the instructions given us, and HaShem will continue to remain faithful no matter what. Though typically if we truly love Y'shua, then we will heed the instructions given to us by the Ruach HaKodesh (sp?). (But then we all seem to be getting different sets of instructions. AAAHHHH!!!)

I know that sounds really simplified. I'm just confused. I thought that salvation before Y'shua was only available to Jews through obedience to the law, including sacrifices. But I've read recently that HaShem was a merciful G-d even before Y'shua. So where did mercy come in before Y'shua if they had to obey the law? Or if they had mercy before, then what was the point of Y'shua?

Please forgive my ignorance. I really am trying to understand!

 

[CharlesYTK]

The difference is that before Yeshua here wasn't the open out-pouring of the spirit on all believers. This was something that in the Old covenant was reserved for the prophets, judges ect. Today every believer has this inward direction, who has written the laws upon our hearts and given us witness to the will of God.

Salvation has always been by Grace. That has not changed at all. Torah is the first Gospel of Grace. What has changed is that we who have received the spirit are motivated from within rather than from without to do the will of the Lord. We have a changed nature, living from the spirit outward rather than though the flesh inward.

Wheeeow. I didn't think this was going to be so hard to express.

Charles

 

[ShirChadash]

The difference is that before Yeshua here wasn't the open out-pouring of the spirit on all believers. This was something that in the Old covenant was reserved for the prophets, judges ect.

Perhaps not on ALL believers, but then again... how do you explain the fact that Caleb -- a non-Jew, the son of a Kennizite -- was said of G-d to have "another spirit", here:


[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word: 21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it. [/font]Today every believer has this inward direction, who has written the laws upon our hearts and given us witness to the will of God.

Salvation has always been by Grace. That has not changed at all. Torah is the first Gospel of Grace. What has changed is that we who have received the spirit are motivated from within rather than from without to do the will of the Lord. We have a changed nature, living from the spirit outward rather than though the flesh inward.

I would agree that Torah IS THE Gospel of Grace, and it is reiterated in the Brit Chad. Before Yeshua even spoke a word of teaching in the Brit Chad., in Mark 1:15, Yeshua said this:

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Mark 1:14[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom F5 of God, 15[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."[/font]


The gospel had to have come in the Torah in order for Yeshua to have told people to believe in the gospel, before He ever spoke a word of teaching to His apostles and followers, and long before any teaching by any of His apostles and followers went forth as well.

Also, once again, the Spirit was operative in the lives of men who endeavored to follow after YHVH, even non-Jews who aligned themselves with the people of G-d, Israel. Take Caleb, for example -- Not a judge. Not a king, nor a prophet. Not even a Jew. So... what's changed again?

 

[CharlesYTK]

HHmmmmm!

 

[JewishHeart]

Charles,

I actually agree with you!

 

[By Grace]

The difference is that before Yeshua here wasn't the open out-pouring of the spirit on all believers. This was something that in the Old covenant was reserved for the prophets, judges ect. Today every believer has this inward direction, who has written the laws upon our hearts and given us witness to the will of God.

Salvation has always been by Grace. That has not changed at all. Torah is the first Gospel of Grace. What has changed is that we who have received the spirit are motivated from within rather than from without to do the will of the Lord. We have a changed nature, living from the spirit outward rather than though the flesh inward.

Wheeeow. I didn't think this was going to be so hard to express.

Charles

Thanks for being patient. This really is making a lot more sense now, despite all the questions.

So this inward direction: is this partially b/c the Law has been further explained to us, by the teachings provided in the Brit Chad., which gives us insight into why most of these laws was given? For example, with children, as they grow older, parents begin to explain why they have certain rules, rather than just giving the rules in a matter that seems, to the child, to be arbitrary. So this is kind of what has happened with us through the teachings of the Brit Chad.? We're learning the why of the rules?

And also, we have an inner sense of when we're doing right and wrong (if we're willing to be sensitive to that inner sense), kind of like a conscience. Did they not have consciences before the Ruach HaKodesh was given?

And then about the question of what has changed with the new covenant: is it that G-d would kind of push us in the right direction, rather than requiring us to figure it out on our own? It seems like all these things changed either with Y'shua's teachings, or with the coming of the Ruach HaKodesh. But what changed with Y'shua's death and resurrection? Was this simply the price paid, and not really anything that changed in our relationship? And if He is the price paid for all our sins, then why do we still suffer and experience loss and pain and sickness and death, even if death is only a passing to the other side, so to speak?

Thanks again for being patient.

 

[ShirChadash]

Don't know Zem,

Only you might be able to tell us.

Charles

Nice. So much for sincere questions and answers.

 

[CharlesYTK]

Nice. So much for sincere questions and answers.

Sorry Zem. Didn't mean to be testy. Just having a hard time articulating this in a way that makes sense. Gets frustrating to have a half functional brain like mine.

You see, something changed with the New as Jerimiah said it was not like the old covenant. And since Torah didn't change something else had to be what changed, and Jerimiah seems to say that the change would be the Law being written on the hearts so that all men would know the Lord intimately. By my way of viewing this, it seems that this intimate knowledge of God comes through the indwelling of the spirit.

Now I didn't mean to say that only prophets and Judges got the spirit in the old. Certainly not, Abraham was also a Gentle who got the spirit. I was just using prophets and judges as examples of those who usually did get the spiritual filling. I think it was also given to any man who approached God with simple devotion and desire for relationship with Him. Under the New covenant it sort of happens with less effort on our part. Its like you accept the Lord at what ever level you are able and he matches and even excedes it in return with the anointing of the spirit.

Charles

 

[JewishHeart]

charles well said

 

[By Grace]

Okay, while the forum was down yesterday, I did some research on some other sites, and here's what I came up with. Please, anyone, tell me if this rings true to you or not:

Mercy and grace were/are present in both the old covenant and the new covenant. What changed is the motivation for (or the source of) obedience, and how mercy is accessed and atonement achieved. In the old covenant, mercy was available for wrongdoing (lack of perfection) through animal sacrifices. In the new covenant, Y'shua's sacrifice atones for all people for all time. The instructions of the Torah for how to live our lives are still applicable today, b/c since G-d doesn't change, what pleases Him also doesn't change. However, no one, then or now, could keep the instructions of the Torah perfectly (except Y'shua), so we all need G-d's mercy, which is provided through atonement. But in the new cov., that atonement is provided through the one-time, perfect sacrifice of Y'shua. When Y'shua "fulfilled" the law, He 'filled it more full'. The motivation for obeying that law is now from within, from the Ruach HaKodesh, which lives within us and gives us understanding of the Truth: discernment. We also, all of us, are given access to greater understanding of the spirit of the instructions, what their intent was and is, and we're more aware of the joy we give to G-d when we obey His instructions. We don't have to be trapped by legalism (though some still choose to be); instead, we can experience the joy that comes from being willingly obedient (though I think this joy was also available to some under the old covenant). Our focus now is more on what He did and does, not on what we do. He has given us the permanent freedom that comes from being fully atoned, so that we can move on and discover our guilt-free relationship with Him, rather than repeatedly being bogged down with the imperfect sacrifices of animals for atonement of our sins. We (as a body) apparently have gone too far with that freedom, in that we've forgotten the instructions He gave us and set them aside. But now that we, as a body, are becoming more secure in our freedom, and more mature in our love for G-d, we are slowly returning to Life's Instruction Manual that our Creator gave us so many thousands of years ago. It's kind of like a kid who leaves home, grasping at the freedom that he has finally been granted. Then he returns home a little while later so his mom can teach him how to cook--something she tried for two decades to get him to do! (It reminds me of the book, Where is Mom now that I need her?)

So how does that sound to everyone? Am I way off base, or is this what you've been trying to tell me, and I just wasn't getting it through my thick skull!

 

[CharlesYTK]

Percieving the purpose of Torah. This is a little aside from the main topic but in response to what Jill wrote.

Torah is Gods instruction for all men, so that we can have happy full peacful lives. (You will have good life through it). It is given for us to be a blessing to one another though following it. So that we can be sanctified, and so that the earth can be sactified and prepared for the time when God dwells with us. Just as Isael was to go into the promised land and establish a righteous kingdom, and be a blessing to all nation with God in their midst.

On the other hand the church sees the rewards of righteousness as something that will happen in the hear after, or in heaven. This is not what the scriptures say.
God put man on the earth as physical beings and walked among them. And we were meant to be eternal beings in that flesh. He doesn't resurrect us as spirits but as flesh,(once again eternal flesh as before the fall) His Kingdom is to be established in the earth and He will rule from Tzion. The nations of the earth will go to Jerusalem to receive the law ect. The Torah and Gods plan is for a physical world with physical persons, who are part of his habitaion on the earth.This is why as pointed out in the survey that was taken on this site, for Christains it is creed rather than deed that matters and For Judaism it is Deed rather than creed that matters.

Torah is what we need to do, instructions in successful living as perfected Humans, the very thing that God created us to be. It is the owners manual that comes in the glove box of every new born Human.

Charles