Brideshead Revisited....anyone? I don't get it!

[Michie]

Good name.

That is all I have to contribute to this thread.

Except that I thought this was going to be about a horror movie where a bride ends up decapitated. I mean, you never know what Shannon will come up with.

Sick puppy.

 

[RoseofLima]

Good name.

That is all I have to contribute to this thread.

Except that I thought this was going to be about a horror movie where a bride ends up decapitated. I mean, you never know what Shannon will come up with.

Now if Jane Austen would have only worked that into one of her books....I might be able to muster up some (what is the opposite of contempt) for her...

 

[Carrye]

Now if Jane Austen

You'll be happy to know that I watched the A&E version of Pride & Prejudice today.

 

[sempervirens]

The book is intensely Catholic - at its heart its a story about grace and reconciliation. Its message is more relevant today than when Waugh wrote it. The 1981 miniseries is excellent - the screenplay adaptation is very true to its source.

 

[Michie]

The book is intensely Catholic - at its heart its a story about grace and reconciliation. Its message of is more relevant today than when Waugh wrote it. The 1981 miniseries is excellent - the screenplay adaptation is very true to its source.

Is the miniseries available on DVD?

 

[Michie]

Nevermind. I found it.

 

[sempervirens]

Is the miniseries available on DVD?

Yes! All 659 minutes (11 episodes) as a 3 DVD set. I pulled an all nighter watching the last 8 episodes - it made quite an impression.

 

[RoseofLima]

The book is intensely Catholic - at its heart its a story about grace and reconciliation. Its message is more relevant today than when Waugh wrote it. The 1981 miniseries is excellent - the screenplay adaptation is very true to its source.

I've got about 50 pages left...I should finish today or tomorrow...at this point I don't see it...but when I finish I'll come back and post me thoughts...

 

[Michie]

I've got about 50 pages left...I should finish today or tomorrow...at this point I don't see it...but when I finish I'll come back and post me thoughts...

Have you finished yet? I'm several chapters into it so far. I picked it up at the library Monday. I see Catholic references but I can understand your confusion.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Please post when you can.

 

[RoseofLima]

Alright-- I'm still processing (and trying to overcome my sorrow of having finished Brideshead by reading Faulkner)...but ..

I wonder, does Waugh really pull it off? Is it convincing? What exactly is the redemption? You'll die as drunk, but at a monastery...alienated from your family? You'll marry a horror of a woman? You'll be alone serving in the war?

With Charles- I am really, really unsure is there previous evidence to support what happens to him?

Like I said - I am still processing, and these are just the questions I am thinking about. If anyone has any input--please chime in!

 

[Michie]

Alright-- I'm still processing (and trying to overcome my sorrow of having finished Brideshead by reading Faulkner)...but ..

I wonder, does Waugh really pull it off? Is it convincing? What exactly is the redemption? You'll die as drunk, but at a monastery...alienated from your family? You'll marry a horror of a woman? You'll be alone serving in the war?

With Charles- I am really, really unsure is there previous evidence to support what happens to him?

Like I said - I am still processing, and these are just the questions I am thinking about. If anyone has any input--please chime in!

Well, as I said, I'm just getting into it. But I have noticed a disturbing description of women in general.

Would you consider it a Catholic novel?

 

[BillH]

I wonder, does Waugh really pull it off? Is it convincing? What exactly is the redemption? You'll die as drunk, but at a monastery...alienated from your family? You'll marry a horror of a woman? You'll be alone serving in the war?

You were expecting a happy ending where everyone has a big group hug and sings "Kumbaya" around a campfire?

These are very flawed and sinful people. They're not going to be fully reedemed in this life -- they've got a bit of purgatory to go through first. You're the one who always talks about redemptive suffering. What's more Catholic than that?

Yes... you might end up in a painful marriage, but is that worse for your soul than sinful adultery? Yes... you might end up in a monastery battling your demons, but would it have been worse if you had surrendered to them? Redemption ain't always pretty -- that's why we use the crucifix as the symbol of our faith, rather than the Buddy Jesus.

As for Charles, it's been a while since I've read the book, so I don't remember all of the details, but doesn't he end up in the chapel at the end of the book before the tabernacle in adoration? The novel isn't very explicit about his conversion, but keep in mind that Waugh was writing to a secular British mid-century audience. A very sentimental lightning-bolt conversion would have been laughed at, so he went for a much more subtle approach.

 

[RoseofLima]

You were expecting a happy ending where everyone has a big group hug and sings "Kumbaya" around a campfire?

These are very flawed and sinful people. They're not going to be fully reedemed in this life -- they've got a bit of purgatory to go through first. You're the one who always talks about redemptive suffering. What's more Catholic than that?

Yes... you might end up in a painful marriage, but is that worse for your soul than sinful adultery? Yes... you might end up in a monastery battling your demons, but would it have been worse if you had surrendered to them? Redemption ain't always pretty -- that's why we use the crucifix as the symbol of our faith, rather than the Buddy Jesus.

As for Charles, it's been a while since I've read the book, so I don't remember all of the details, but doesn't he end up in the chapel at the end of the book before the tabernacle in adoration? The novel isn't very explicit about his conversion, but keep in mind that Waugh was writing to a secular British mid-century audience. A very sentimental lightning-bolt conversion would have been laughed at, so he went for a much more subtle approach.

Is their suffering redemptive? I mean all suffering is redemptive potentially...perhaps in Julia's case...

The bad marriage is Bridey...that woman is que horrible!!

I understand what Waugh was going for, and I didn;t finish it totally disgusted...I just wonder if he really pulled it off...if I am really convinced. I didn't finish and have a surge of hope...you know??? But I think perhaps the real point to me --is that the thread keeps pulling us back...and we are never no being pursued by the Hound of heaven...that God beckons us even when we screw it all up in a big, big way...

Also, how is it faith explicitly...and not just whatever it is that is imbued into us at childhood?

 

[sempervirens]

But I think perhaps the real point to me --is that the thread keeps pulling us back...and we are never no being pursued by the Hound of heaven...that God beckons us even when we screw it all up in a big, big way...

I agree completely - it is God's grace "...with an unseen hook and an invisible line which is long enough to let him wander to the ends of the world and still to bring him back with a twitch upon the thread."
I've started reading Chesterton now because of that quote! - starting with "The Everlasting Man" I'm a big fan of Sherlock Holmes - looking forward to the Father Brown stories.

Also, how is it faith explicitly...and not just whatever it is that is imbued into us at childhood?

Yes! Imbued is the word! The sacramentality of the catholic worldview starts with the grace imbued as a child at baptism. We view grace as working within us - we are not snow covered dung. It is this grace that allows us to find him, even on a deathbed after a lifetime of hatred as with Earl Marchmain.

 

[Carrye]

Redemption ain't always pretty -- that's why we use the crucifix as the symbol of our faith, rather than the Buddy Jesus.

That, my friend, is sig-worthy.

 

[RoseofLima]

I agree completely - it is God's grace "...with an unseen hook and an invisible line which is long enough to let him wander to the ends of the world and still to bring him back with a twitch upon the thread."
I've started reading Chesterton now because of that quote! - starting with "The Everlasting Man" I'm a big fan of Sherlock Holmes - looking forward to the Father Brown stories.



Yes! Imbued is the word! The sacramentality of the catholic worldview starts with the grace imbued as a child at baptism. We view grace as working within us - we are not snow covered dung. It is this grace that allows us to find him, even on a deathbed after a lifetime of hatred as with Earl Marchmain.

Do you all not feel that Waugh cheated at all? I mean..I felt that he didn't do a real great job showing that grace in action, or that sacramentality in action....

What do you think the purpose of that was? What is the purpose of Anthony Blanche being in the story at all? Is it to as acomparison to Sebastian?

 

[Filia Mariae]

Do you all not feel that Waugh cheated at all? I mean..I felt that he didn't do a real great job showing that grace in action, or that sacramentality in action....

What do you think the purpose of that was? What is the purpose of Anthony Blanche being in the story at all? Is it to as acomparison to Sebastian?

Now I'm gonna have to reread it aren't I??

 

[RoseofLima]

Now I'm gonna have to reread it aren't I??

There are worse ways I could think of to spend time

Really though I loved, loved it...the language is so beautiful... I am just working through it all-- I have to teach it to my seniors...

 

[sempervirens]

Do you all not feel that Waugh cheated at all? I mean..I felt that he didn't do a real great job showing that grace in action, or that sacramentality in action....

Its tough to depict interior conversion - I think he's doing it by challenging the audience's assumptions as Bill H speaks of. e.g. Cordelia really zinged Charles that from her point of view he was thwarted. I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt - Ryder's conversion is more plausible than Waugh's own personal conversion - he found the church a solid footing in a world unmoored from its roots in the wake of WWI. Waugh went from being a leading light of the "Wasteland" society (which I think is what Anthony Blanche represents as he shouts that poem to the rooftops of Oxford) to heavy duty catholic. Waugh does come across to me as something of a fuddy duddy to my post-Vatican II sensibility - whether thats good or bad is another can of worms

 

[RoseofLima]

I'll have to come back to this tomorrow..I am getting too sleepy...

Thank you all for hashing this out with me!