Bowing before the Altar

[Paidiske]

As a bishop? In Anglicanism that colour would be for bishops.

I was surprised because I've had little contact with Lutherans, but those I've known here have told me that a very much stripped-back aesthetic was a Lutheran norm. I didn't realise that wasn't necessarily true everywhere.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

As a bishop? In Anglicanism that colour would be for bishops.

I was surprised because I've had little contact with Lutherans, but those I've known here have told me that a very much stripped-back aesthetic was a Lutheran norm. I didn't realise that wasn't necessarily true everywhere.

The color of clerical shirts is Adiaphora; most still wear black with Roman Collar, some wear Anglican Collar.

Most small to mid sized parishes, clergy will wear Alb and Stole for Mass, maybe Chasuble; for other services, Cassock, surplus and stole. Vespers and Matins during Lent, Cassock and stole only. While this may be the norm, it is not the rule.

 

[Paidiske]

Oh, that's interesting, I thought the surplice was an Anglican peculiarity.

The colour of clerical shirts is adiaphora for us too, and you can buy them in all sorts of colours and prints... but purple is for bishops.

 

[Kalevalatar]

One thing which is perhaps a bit distinct to Scandinavia is that they the bishops often wear purple shirts:

Hope you don't mind my adding that little significant detail there!

Pictured here is the Bishop of Oslo, Ole Christian Kvarme, I believe.

As a bishop? In Anglicanism that colour would be for bishops.

I was surprised because I've had little contact with Lutherans, but those I've known here have told me that a very much stripped-back aesthetic was a Lutheran norm. I didn't realise that wasn't necessarily true everywhere.

Oh, that's interesting, I thought the surplice was an Anglican peculiarity.

The colour of clerical shirts is adiaphora for us too, and you can buy them in all sorts of colours and prints... but purple is for bishops.

Yes, purple is for bishops in the Nordic Lutheran churches. In Finland, black is for pastors and green is for diaconia workers.

The Porvoo Communion, to which we belong, is an altar and pulpit fellowship of major Lutheran and Anglican churches in Northern Europe (GB, Ireland, Nordic and Baltic region) and Iberia.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Oh yeah - thanks @Kalevalatar. And well done for knowing who he is!

@Paidiske Ah, that's right, yeah! I remember seeing Justin Welby wearing a purple shirt when I saw him at a conference in the UK. I was actually invited to Lambeth Palace for doing some graphics for CofE. Got to see the Crypt - was very cool.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Oh yeah - thanks @Kalevalatar. And well done for knowing who he is!

Rather sadly, I remember him as the Bishop of Oslo in the aftermath of Utøya, consoling the nation. Our Bishops quoted his words.

 

[Paidiske]

Yes, purple is for bishops in the Nordic Lutheran churches. In Finland, black is for pastors and green is for diaconia workers.

That's interesting too. We don't make any distinction between deacons and priests in clerical dress. (In liturgical vestments, yes, but not street wear).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Oh, that's interesting, I thought the surplice was an Anglican peculiarity.

The colour of clerical shirts is adiaphora for us too, and you can buy them in all sorts of colours and prints... but purple is for bishops.

Common in Lutheran and Roman Rite also. When I was much younger and an acolyte, we wore a black cassock and white surplice; another Church I attended, red Cassock shorter white cotta; present Church, they wear a white Alb. Lay Deacon, a black Alb, no Stole, with a cincture in the seasonal Liturgical Colour.

Lots of variety.

 

[Paidiske]

What's a lay deacon? Are Lutheran deacons not ordained?

Wait, no wait, black alb? That's, like, a contradiction in terms! Is it basically a cassock?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Cope is not unheard of either; our outgoing Synodical Bishop, Rev. Dr. Robert Bugby preaching at the installation of the Synodical Bishop of the LCMS:

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What's a lay deacon? Are Lutheran deacons not ordained?

Wait, no wait, black alb? That's, like, a contradiction in terms! Is it basically a cassock?

In our Synod, Deacons who have been trained in the Sem are consecrated. Elders are elected and installed, and may serve as Deacons liturgically.

No not a cassock; same cut as an alb; I have seen Eastern Orthodox Clergy wearing something very similar. Looks like this, but a looser collar:

 

[Paidiske]

My cassock is almost identical to that in cut. I guess one long robe is basically very similar to another.

But given that "alb" means "white" it did make me do a double take!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My cassock is almost identical to that in cut. I guess one long robe is basically very similar to another.

But given that "alb" means "white" it did make me do a double take!

May be called something else; similar cut.

Black-white? Might be related to Red Green and the Possom Lodge, a Canadian Institution:

(Caution: Off Topic, and absurdly humourous)

 

[Kalevalatar]

That's interesting too. We don't make any distinction between deacons and priests in clerical dress. (In liturgical vestments, yes, but not street wear).

In the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, diaconia worker is an ordained non-clerical position and a majority of diaconia workers are women. Formerly, deaconess (diakonissa) signified training in nursing and health services whereas deacon (diakoni) specialised in social welfare work. Nowadays, the position is called diaconia worker and the training focuses on social and spiritual welfare.

The clerical structure of our parishes is parish pastors (entry level position for ordained Masters of Theology), chaplains (requires a Pastoral Degree) and vicar (requires a degree in leadership). Same shirts for all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

May be called something else; similar cut.

Black-white? Might be related to Red Green and the Possom Lodge, a Canadian Institution:

(Caution: Off Topic, and absurdly humourous)

The Red Green show is how I learned duct tape fixes, literally, everything. We had some Canadian channels that broadcast in my home town here in Washington, as I grew up a ferry ride straight across from Victoria, BC. /offtopic

-CryptoLutheran

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The Red Green show is how I learned duct tape fixes, literally, everything. We had some Canadian channels that broadcast in my home town here in Washington, as I grew up a ferry ride straight across from Victoria, BC. /offtopic

-CryptoLutheran

And the most important prayer for us guys:

I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

I attend a Lutheran church in the UK, where it is customary to bow when approaching or leaving the alter. For instance when candles on the alter are lit/extinguished, the person doing so usually bows towards the alter.

We are part of the ELCE, which is strongly linked with the LCMS. Our pastor is Finnish and has explained much of the liturgy to me during my confirmation instruction. It all makes sense to me now, but coming from a charismatic and then reformed background, it’s still a little foreign to me personally.

I have been taught the symbolism for much of the practices that go on in our congregation, which are to aid us and help us to focus upon the spiritual reality of the divine service, both physically and mentally. Considering we actually meet every week in a building that is a scout hut the rest of the week, these things are really quite a blessing to me. But all that said, the pastor has made it clear these things, though helpful, are never to be enforced dogmatically. I may be wrong, but I think this type of thing is called something like “audiophora”, which I’ve probably spelled wrongly.

 

[Paidiske]

"Adiaphora." Meaning that it doesn't really matter whether we do them or not, and we should choose based on what is most helpful in a given context.

 

[John the Ex-Baptist]

That'll be the one!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I attend a Lutheran church in the UK, where it is customary to bow when approaching or leaving the alter. For instance when candles on the alter are lit/extinguished, the person doing so usually bows towards the alter.

We are part of the ELCE, which is strongly linked with the LCMS. Our pastor is Finnish and has explained much of the liturgy to me during my confirmation instruction. It all makes sense to me now, but coming from a charismatic and then reformed background, it’s still a little foreign to me personally.

I have been taught the symbolism for much of the practices that go on in our congregation, which are to aid us and help us to focus upon the spiritual reality of the divine service, both physically and mentally. Considering we actually meet every week in a building that is a scout hut the rest of the week, these things are really quite a blessing to me. But all that said, the pastor has made it clear these things, though helpful, are never to be enforced dogmatically. I may be wrong, but I think this type of thing is called something like “audiophora”, which I’ve probably spelled wrongly.

"Adiaphora." Meaning that it doesn't really matter whether we do them or not, and we should choose based on what is most helpful in a given context.

That'll be the one!

It is indeed!