....If you believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is God and you believe the current Old Testament was from God, then you also believe that Jesus had ordered to have infants, women, children, livestock, etc. killed before.
No one was saved then and it was horrific time period, also, JESUS, God in the flesh, ERASED it all when He came. If one looks at the ancient times, one can see that there were frequent atrocities. The Ancient Greeks and Romans killed and enslaved many (millions) as well as the Mesopotamian, with the Babylons and Sumerians. They thought themselves to be gods worthy to choose who lives and who dies. One Akkadian King is seen crushing small people in an ancient stele wearing a crown indicating he thought himself to be a god, King Hammurabi is seen writing 250 persecuting and unequal laws rationalizing killing, slavery, ect in his infamous "Code" saying he is a god who can judge. Once God came in the flesh, though, as Jesus, all was erased, and people could finally be saved.
Notice that after Jesus came things started to change, the world progressed and eventually slavery was dispersed. The death penalty became less and less used. Warfare became somewhat less frequent and people gained more equality. All this was pro-Jesus's, God's words and perfect, sinless example to follow.
God did not like what He saw in the ancient times, people were getting attacked and treated as worthless because they thought themselves as gods with the ability to choose who lived and who died. God decided, as He had with Moses on the mountain where Moses saw His back, wrestling with Jacob in the flesh "face to face," and when He had walked with Adam and Eve in the garden in the flesh (spirits cannot walk), that He was going to show Himself again as a theophany. This is why Jesus states "I and the father are ONE." They ARE one, as Jesus is God's representation in the flesh, this is why Jesus states, "Anyone who has seen Me has seen the father." They did see the father, as with humans there is a flesh and there is a soul. Jesus is God showing His body, the father is representing His soul, which is omnipresent as Jesus is omnipresent. This is also why Jesus states, "Don't you understand? God is not God of the dead, but of the living." (for the soul never dies) and why He states, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
When you do not say you believe in Jesus as God, or that He resurrected from the dead (his body only, the soul never dies!), it seems to me that you do not believe in souls. I then begin to wonder, maybe this is partly why your book is so fine with killing/murder, warfare, violence, death penalty, ect. because for you there is not a strong belief that there is a soul at all. Because for us, if we kill someone (take the like of another, which is ALWAYS murder in ANY circumstance), we're basically not only killing someone once, we're doing it TWICE, which makes it even more heinous and repulsive. Taking the life of another would kill their body, then their soul, which likely the murder would want to go to hell, so this is a DOUBLE murder. There is a double reason to not harm another, not only because Jesus, who is God, commanded us not to and have a perfect, sinless example to follow, but also because we would be harming their soul as well as their body, which is a DOUBLE atrocity.
Although ours is in the historical sense, meaning wiped away when Jesus, God in the flesh as a theophany, came, YOURS Muslim's is open ended. Meaning, it is still the law and still commanded of you. Maybe this is also why when Mohammad orders many assassinations and killings, as well as kills 800-900 Jews in Medina, e.g., there is no repulsion or anything to it, because there is no soul believed in, not REALLY (and of course ignoring Jesus as God, at one point Mohammad even orders Jesus's image as well as His mother's to be erased). He's basically acting like the pagans before him who acted like gods and killed many, as well as enslaved them. To me, it seems like a seamless continuous example of what atrocities occurred in ancient times continuing into the present. Exactly what Jesus, God, did NOT want.
There absolutely seems to be no separation between what Mohammad does and what the ancients did when they thought themselves to be gods. It looks often like Hammurabi's Code to me. When there is no separation or difference between what the pagans did in old times, to what Mohammad did, doesn't this seem a little odd to you? A little like this might be wrong entirely? With no difference, this also tells me critically thinking wise this makes no sense at all, for it should be the OPPOSITE. Yet, Mohammad orders many killed, Muslims kill often, and Mohammad kills and enslaves many. All of this against Jesus's, God's words and example, which came 500 years prior. Then Mohammad curses Christians and Jews on his deathbed, as well as ordered many to be killed of course. Your book knows all about what the Christians believed, yet there is so much specified hatred toward them, literally defined in your book. You act like the pagans who persecuted Christians (as well as MANY, MANY others enslaving them, ect.) from Jesus's resurrection to 313 A.D. Anyone with a brain and critical thinking can see this makes no sense and is suspicious.
According to your belief, if God and Jesus are the same, then it was God/Jesus who ordered people to be harmed. So I don't think it can be said that (according to your beliefs about God, Jesus, and the Old Testament) Jesus never harmed or killed anyone.
Actually it can be said Jesus, who is God, harmed and killed NO ONE, as Jesus is God's representation in the flesh. God NEVER harmed or killed anyone in the flesh as Jesus, whether it was in the garden, wrestling with Jacob, or when showing the back to Moses. He is never seen doing any of this. And in CHRISTianity, with JESUS as central, hence the term, we are to follow Jesus's (God's) perfect and sinless example. There was an entirely new rebirth when Jesus, who is God, resurrected and showed His example on earth. There was a chance, there was HOPE. There was change from the old times and a renewal. There was LIGHT in the darkness. Jesus is God and showed us how to find the truth, the way, and the light when He appeared on earth.
I realize that the way Christianity is to be practiced now (though hasn't since the first century or two) is that it's supposed to be completely pacifist (even if someone is attacking you), but it would be difficult to claim that Jesus (peace be upon him) was non-violent according to your view on God.
Why do you claim Christianity was not pacifist from the beginning? Do you not know about the Roman and Jewish Catacombs? 600 miles of archeological evidence of Christians being persecuted and not fighting back. It shows symbols, depictions, and written descriptions of Jesus, who is God, and their beliefs. Symbols such as the anchor, Chi-Ro, dove, peacoc, fish, ship, praying person, good shepherd, all there.
Early Christian Symbols of the Ancient Church from the Catacombs
Nero, a Roman emperor, attacked Christians, they were persecuted and thrown to lions and burned, along with 400 slaves. The Roman Catacombs depict the early Christians and what they believed, there are historians who saw what they believed which was pacifist and with JESUS, who is GOD, central. You ignore this glaring evidence which cannot be disputed.
No true Scotsman...
So then everyone who is not a perfect Christian is not a true Christian, correct? So that means that NO one is a true Christian since I'm pretty sure that everyone makes mistakes.
If people follow JESUS as central and follow His commandments, they are CHRISTian as they have JESUS central, hence CHRIST in the term. Otherwise, they are ____ianity with whomever they take priority over Jesus, who is God, but not CHRISTianity unless JESUS and His commandments are central.
In Islaam, even if someone does something totally against Islaam (let's say unjust murders, rapes, theft, homosexuality, unnecessary abortion, etc.), they're STILL Muslims because these acts in and of themselves do not take a person out of the fold of Islaam. They're not following Islaam in these aspects, but as long as they don't justify their sins (and acknowledge that they ARE sins), they're still Muslims. The only thing that takes a person out of Islaam is major disbelief.
You say "unjust" murders, but EVERY murder is UNJUST. Murder is NEVER justified, but merely RATIONALIZED. Killing another is ALWAYS rationalized.
Is that why when the man kills the mother of the 5 children, and Muslims continually kill, murder, enslave, ect. in your book, it's "all good." This makes no sense what-so-ever. So you can do all of this to non-muslims and it is fine and even to yourselves and it's fine. Is there no moral compass at all? Of course, it's all rationalized by Mohammad, Quaran and Hadith anyway, many examples of ALL of this being commanded, done, ect. and "oh it's ok." WHAT? NO, it is NEVER right, it is ALWAYS wrong, and when they do that, they are not taking JESUS as central, so it must be ____ianity they follow, but not CHRISTianity as JESUS is not central, hence CHRIST in the term. It's death penalty all the time anyway in your book and laws, MURDER OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Repulsive and vile!
References would be nice. So would context of the verses. So would the explanation in light of all of the different verses taken together.
Sure... Here is a link because I'm not going to repeat it.
The Quran's Verses of Violence
Prophet of Doom - Islamic Quotes - Murder
There's SOME of it, other links show even more murder, violence, ect. Disgusting and against JESUS's, GOD's, commandments.
1.) Not just women. Both men and women if they are found guilty.
2.) It is exceptionally hard to find someone guilty of adultery because it is either proved through
a.) 4 trustworthy, adult, Muslim eyewitnesses who saw the actual penetration of the male organ into the female (and it's preferred to keep others' sins a secret)
Right, I don't understand this torture. It's somehow "merciful" to murder and beat people to death if there are so-called witness when people are sinful and can just "make up" that they even saw anything. As if witnesses, or anything makes killing and torture any more rationalized or "merciful." As if THEY have to beg YOU for their lives. So its supposedly "merciful" to beat people if they saw them do something you don't like. DISGUSTING and against JESUS, who said "Those who wield the sword, die by the sword." Torture is rationalized and beating people to death, all against Jesus's, God's, commandments "DO NOT KILL." and John the baptist, "DO NO VIOLENCE TO ANY MAN" in Luke, including JESUS entire example in John 8:1-11 where He saves the woman from stoning to death for adultery, meaning ANTI-death penalty and ANTI-killing in ANY circumstance.
or
b.) confession on the part of the guilty parties (and it is advised to NOT reveal our sins that don't harm anyone else....we are encouraged to keep those sins a secret and ask Allaah to forgive us).
(a) is pretty much impossible. Even if there were 4 witnesses and they saw one person on top of the other nude, that can't be used as proof because they have to see the penetration. So unless they're like extreme creepers, that's not going to happen.
3.) Lashes don't kill people. Well, if administered properly they shouldn't.
Islam Question and Answer - Description of flogging for an unmarriezd person who commits zina
80 Lashes don't kill people if "administered properly." Wow, and this is why so many who get beaten severely die. You really think all are going to actually not beat them to death with EIGHTY whip lashes. Give me a break. They are severly beaten and could suffer severe internal bleeding. If they survive that they can face septicemia, a bacterial infection in the blood which is often fatal, later on with ANY kind of break of skin, and wound, or even caused by a weakening of the immune system from being beaten. This is killing, which is against JESUS and violence, is is against JESUS, who IS God. Honestly, this reminds me of the "slave ownwers" who rationalized "whip lashing" slaves for "disobedience." MANY slaves DIED for that. So your claim "it doesn't cause fatalities" is 100% FALSE, it DOES. This is a recent example of slavery it showing it does, domestic violence shows it does. Beating people CAUSES FATALITIES. You ignore this glaring fact. It is killing, taking the life of another, which is against JESUS, who is God.
There are rules of war in Islaam since it is a complete way of life. There are explicit texts that talk about avoiding non-combatant women and children, old men, people of the houses of worship (e.g. monks), etc.
Also, it seems that you forget the Old Testament so quickly...
"Rules of war" right... because it is ALL about murder, killing, ect. When Mohammad orders the killing of all Jews, who faced puberty, I'd say, they were still children. and who even cares "rationalizing it based on -who- it is" ALL are equal and to say that "one murder is somehow less than the other or can be rationaled" is WRONG. ALL killing is murder, ALL killing is WRONG, ALL killing is equally wrong, repulsive and heinous. You act like the pagan Greeks who went terrorizing other places and killing millions, enslaving millions, prostitution, child labor, labor for life, torture, beating, ect. over and over again. ALL against Jesus, who is God.
I never disagreed.
References?
And no one is saying that Islaam is pacifist. I AM saying that there are clear guidelines in war in Islaam.
Meaning, you rationalize murder AGAIN, you rationalize violence, AGAIN. References? Check those links I posted above. It shows quotes and where it is found in the Quaran and Hadith. This is ALL against Jesus's, God's commandments and example, it is WRONG.