Born That Way?

[cmarie423]

In China homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until 2001...now it is simply unrecognised (perhaps even better, the LGBT are illegal thank goodness). If it really is a sexual perversion, why are the majority of people who practise this disgusting filth so happy with themselves? No happiness is found in sin, only deceit and hate. They must be mental to indulge in these horrid activities and enjoy it.... Atheists feel guilty when they kill, steal or lie (our consciences are given by God)...why would homosexual acts be any different?

Homosexuality is unnatural and goes against human nature. Charles Darwin could not prove that homosexuality played any part in the evolutionary model, except for the fact that homosexuals would not be able to breed and thus were a ''weaker part'' of the human race. If the ''gay gene'' indeed exists...it surely isn't being passed to future generations!

Thus I can only affirm that homosexuality is arguably a medical disorder that occurs very rarely, perhaps due to permanent hormonal inbalances. I hope that a cure is made so that those suffering from this disorder may live normal lives.

I'm sure there are a lot of people that do have mental disorders who are gay but not all. There are a lot of people that are happy doing all types of sin that aren't religious. When you separate yourself from God or have no relationship it's really easy to accept sin. Your mentioning huge things like murder. Of course even an atheist would feel guilty for that but what about the millions of people that have premarital sex. They don't feel guilty. At least most don't. I know I didn't when I was going through a period where I didn't believe in God. Premarital sex, lying, meh. Not really a big deal. At the time anyways. Most people only feel remorse if they truly accept the sin as a sin. I still struggle with things that are considered a sin in the Catholic faith. Do I follow the law of the church yes, but do I always feel like something is a sin? No. That doesn't mean I have a mental disorder because I don't feel bad for it. I just have to follow the law like I'm told. Overall I totally understand why your going with it. I just know not everyone is crazy and it's a choice and a struggle for some that can be overcome. Regarding it as mental disorder just makes it seem like people can't change then, so why try? It gives them leeway.

 

[Irenaeus]

Hey Kurama,

In China homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until 2001...now it is simply unrecognised (perhaps even better, the LGBT are illegal thank goodness). If it really is a sexual perversion, why are the majority of people who practise this disgusting filth so happy with themselves? No happiness is found in sin, only deceit and hate. They must be mental to indulge in these horrid activities and enjoy it.... Atheists feel guilty when they kill, steal or lie (our consciences are given by God)...why would homosexual acts be any different?

Well, two things I guess can be said here. First, studies are only just emerging on homosexual relationships, but it is a fact that most same sex couples are "monogamish," to use the term of the infamous anti-Christian activist Dan Savage. That is, where there is a primary couple, there are no illusions that the relationship is very much "open." This stands more for men, but it is not unknown with lesbian relationships.

Second, not every person who sins is miserable. I mean, that's kind of what makes sin (superficially) so attractive. It's fun, it seems like it will make us happy (what older philosophers called the 'apparent good.').

Augustine's dictum is still true, that sin is its own punishment. There ultimately comes a point when the habituated sin deforms us as persons.

Something in my bones feels beneath all the jubilation and exterior joy with the homosexual movement, that there is a very deep despair somewhere. It's hard to explain.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Without digging up the reference, I believe the Church considers homosexuality a disorder, which needs to be resisted.

 

[mathetes123]

Without digging up the reference, I believe the Church considers homosexuality a disorder, which needs to be resisted.

The word disorder implies a disease for which a person would not be responsible. The bible is very clear that it is a sin.

 

[Irenaeus]

It says the inclination is "Intrinsically Disordered" in the Catechism.

Even though it doesn't seem so, that's a very important nuance. It is silent on whether the disorder is the fault of the person (which almost always is certainly not), or where it comes from, etc. The only thing the Catechism does say that homosexual acts must not be done.

 

[WarriorAngel]

if Christ came here to teach us that washing dishes doesn't make us righteous, then why did we kill Him?? His teachings are applicable to life, otherwise, He teaches in vain, which, as we all know, is not true :3

You have over 200 posts so i am assuming you know the rules about debating faiths in their congregations.

Howsoever; you are very wrong on your misinterpretation.

Christ wasnt speaking in parables at that moment. He only did that in lessons. He wasnt some philosopher Who only spoke parables. Sheesh - that's amazing ppl think that.
They take the parts that are literal and make it a parable and take the parts that are parable behind the literal and call it merely symbolic.

AGAIN - the Jews thot they were doing just fine because they insisted - demanded everyone keep the part of the law about washings - as tho that was salvific. It wasnt - [it was allegory to the future cleanliness of the soul and Baptism et al]
Essentially He was denouncing them that THEY think if they wash pots and cups - it makes them clean - aka - obtaining salvation and not doing more than giving alms or tithes - they ought to be good to go.
It doesnt work that way - which is why He said they were filled with evil inside.

Paul said all things he could do - but not all things were profitable. AKA his soul wouldnt profit doing some things - mainly in sinning.

Again - Christ was mocking their way of thinking.
That - as you also inferred now - that you merely give alms - and bingo - you are saved. That eliminates the need to avoid sin.

Lest we decidedly ignore Christ saying over and over - 'Go and Sin NO more.'

It takes the Church - Catholic - who is guardian of the scriptures to interpret them. Or as Peter said - those who wrest [wrestle interpret] the scriptures and also epistles of Paul damn themselves because they have it wrong.
You're misinterpretation - God willing you havent spread this around to others - is misleading souls.

Come in here and tell us if we give alms we can do anything we like - its suddenly makes all things clean??

OY and wow.

Thats not even close to what Christ meant. That was pretty much akin to His sarcasm.

 

[Needing_Grace]

The word disorder implies a disease for which a person would not be responsible. The bible is very clear that it is a sin.

The acts are disordered, which is what makes them sinful. The inclination is also disordered but in Catholic theology inclinations aren't imputable sin, they are the result of original sin (concupiscence) and can, with the help of Divine Grace, and must be resisted. That's CCC 2357 and 2359 plus some Trent in a nutshell.

Official words is that such folk are to be treated with respect, compassion and dignity and that all signs unjust discrimination in their regard are to be avoided (CCC 2358).

The first sentence of the first sentence is the sum total of what most people know about homosexuality. They ignore the rest because it's hardly ever emphasized but it's just as much Church teaching based on the same principles the Scriptures are based upon, which requires religious consent...if you're a Catholic.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Human is human. All are made in His image. All are called to avoid sin - meanwhile - He made us as one - His Body - so we cling to Him and one another for love and help.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The word disorder implies a disease for which a person would not be responsible. The bible is very clear that it is a sin.

I guess you could say any word implies whatever you like. And the Bible is very clear that the activity is a sin, not the inclination.

 

[Michie]

I guess you could say any word implies whatever you like. And the Bible is very clear that the activity is a sin, not the inclination.

Exactly.

 

[mathetes123]

I guess you could say any word implies whatever you like. And the Bible is very clear that the activity is a sin, not the inclination.

Yes, we all have a sin nature. I have certain sins that I struggle with.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

whether one is born that way or not - we still have a responsibility (see the catechism) to be kind, supportive, and compassionate to all people.

That's not true. Psalm 5:5 says otherwise:

The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

It's one thing to love those who are struggling with homosexuality, but quite another to offer support to those who practice it with no desire to resist what they know to be sin.

That's not an excuse to persecute them, but to fellowship with those who are non-repentent, practicing homosexuals is nothing short of an attempt to marry the Light with darkness.

BTW

 

[MikeK]

I guess you could say any word implies whatever you like. And the Bible is very clear that the activity is a sin, not the inclination.

The Catechism is clear that homosexuality is not a disorder, but rather that homosexual acts are disordered.

 

[AnthonyMichaelPraisesGod]

It takes the Church - Catholic - who is guardian of the scriptures to interpret them. Or as Peter said - those who wrest [wrestle interpret] the scriptures and also epistles of Paul damn themselves because they have it wrong.
You're misinterpretation - God willing you havent spread this around to others - is misleading souls.

Come in here and tell us if we give alms we can do anything we like - its suddenly makes all things clean??

OY and wow.

Thats not even close to what Christ meant. That was pretty much akin to His sarcasm.

Wow. I wasn't aware that I said any of that at all. 0_0 I'm sure you'll misquote me again, but all I did was quote scripture.

I didn't mean to upset anyone by a post on a site supposedly for Christ, but I respect your views that your way is totally right. We've been hurting people in the name of Christ for two thousand years, so what's another hundred or so, eh?

I hope you have a great year, sister.

And again, I apologize for wanting to have fellowship with any of you. I certainly will not try it again. </3

 

[AnthonyMichaelPraisesGod]

*i have removed my comment and i really do apologize for butting in*

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

As I heard a wise Orthodox priest named Father Thomas Hopko say, "just because you're born that way doesn't mean you have to stay that way."

God's grace is awfully strong....

 

[Erose]

False.

…39And the Lord said to him, Now do you Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. 40You fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? 41But rather give alms of such things as you have; and, behold, all things are clean to you. …

This is true of all things.
Give alms of what you have.
Namaste, sister.

No, Gwen is correct here. Sometimes those actions are not external, but internal, as the Sermon of the Mount teaches. If one suffers from SSA, he or she has not sinned. It is only when someone acts upon that temptation or would act if given the opportunity that someone sins.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

In China homosexuality was considered a mental disorder until 2001...now it is simply unrecognised (perhaps even better, the LGBT are illegal thank goodness). If it really is a sexual perversion, why are the majority of people who practise this disgusting filth so happy with themselves? No happiness is found in sin, only deceit and hate. They must be mental to indulge in these horrid activities and enjoy it.... Atheists feel guilty when they kill, steal or lie (our consciences are given by God)...why would homosexual acts be any different?

For one: far as I know homosexuality is not illegal in China. It was decriminalized in 1997 when the penal code was revised. [Unless you include Macau, where it is still illegal.]

Second: I am curious, what horrid activities would these be that requires gay individuals to be "mental" to enjoy?

Homosexuality is unnatural and goes against human nature. Charles Darwin could not prove that homosexuality played any part in the evolutionary model, except for the fact that homosexuals would not be able to breed and thus were a ''weaker part'' of the human race. If the ''gay gene'' indeed exists...it surely isn't being passed to future generations!

Not going to deep here, but you might want to pick up a book on genetics and/or evolution. That is NOT how genes work. Just because the affected individuals do not breed, does not mean the gene would not be passed on - assuming no gay individuals ever had kids, which isn't the case anyway.

Thus I can only affirm that homosexuality is arguably a medical disorder that occurs very rarely, perhaps due to permanent hormonal inbalances. I hope that a cure is made so that those suffering from this disorder may live normal lives.

No hormonal imbalance is found in homosexuals, at least not in any majority that could account for the fact they are gay.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

We've been hurting people in the name of Christ for two thousand years, so what's another hundred or so, eh?

Hurting the feelings of those who deny Christ or embrace a false christ is simply a reality that can't be avoided. The Truth is like a double-edged sword. Jesus Himself declared that He came not to bring peace, but to set brother against brother, son against father, etc. The Truth divides because of hard hearts rather than unify.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

It's not all that surprising that discussions of a non-existent "gene" for homosexuality is still being assumed by some, even though there's not one shred of evidence for such. It's pretty much granted that some pseudo science whacko will one day stand up and convince the pseudo science community there is such a gene.

For those who believe in what has never been found nor proven, you will also be forced to admit paraphilias such as zoophilia and pedophilia as things people are born with, and therefore can't change. There's simply no escape from this. If we can blame genetics for sexual attractions and conduct, then I shouldn't be held responsible for stealing your large screen TV, jewelry, money, car, identity, raping your wife and/or children, and anything else you have that I desire beyond my ability to control or change.

Why hasn't anyone labeled kleptomania (the insatiable desire to steal) as being genetic? There's just as much credibility in that as there is in sexual attractions.....or is there some sort of psychological brain washing out there that causes people to believe there's a difference? Oh, I'm sure there is. After all, we're now a culture of sheeple who put people like Obama in office.

If we can blame genetics for desires/attractions outside our control, then kleptomania certainly qualifies, among many other classified maladies of human desire and conduct. That means there are massive quantities of other desires and conduct that deserve special rights and protections that ultimately will blast our economy into the dirt, making this worse than a third world nation.

Oh. I forgot. Because homosexuality is socially acceptable these days, it's the only one that can possibly be linked to genetics. Right?

I wonder how long it will be before we once again sacrifice children on the red hot hands of idols such as Baal..... Ooops. We already are doing what's just as bad. Abortion by chemically burning and/or ripping unborn children to pieces in the womb.

The compassion for workers of iniquity is sickening. God hates ALL workers of iniquity. The word of God declares that very reality. There's a difference between workers of iniquity and those who still have a conscience and desire for change in their lives.

BTW