Born Again?

[RandyPNW]

Evangelicals teach a momentous change from sinner to saint by a formulation called being "Born Again." And this implies for some an immediate change, and for others, a progressive change. In reality I think it is both.

I do think there is an immediate Born Again change when we begin to acknowledge that Christ is our substitute, when we put that reality into motion by accepting God's Word in our lives that enables us to live according to that directive. Just like when our employer tells us to do something he provides the means for us to do it, we can do God's word when He gives us the command to do it.

Even more, when God tells us to completely relinquish final say in our lives, and make God our primary source of authority, we are able to follow that directive and thereby obtain the spiritual means to comply. We become "Born Again."

Some Christians try to dismiss the confusion over formulations of Salvation on the premise that we begin as sinners and end as sinners even after we come under Grace. We are not instantly transformed into saints--we simply become God's People by covenant in the act of acknowledging it and following that directive.

A formula for becoming "Born Again" can become an "oversimplification" of the Salvation formula. We go from sinner to saint only in the sense that 1) we come under covenant with God, 2) we come under grace, and 3) we live by our substitute and not by our carnal being. As such, we are Born Again but not living in righteousness except on the basis of Grace until we obtain glorification.

 

[Dan Perez]

Evangelicals teach a momentous change from sinner to saint by a formulation called being "Born Again." And this implies for some an immediate change, and for others, a progressive change. In reality I think it is both.

I do think there is an immediate Born Again change when we begin to acknowledge that Christ is our substitute, when we put that reality into motion by accepting God's Word in our lives that enables us to live according to that directive. Just like when our employer tells us to do something he provides the means for us to do it, we can do God's word when He gives us the command to do it.

Even more, when God tells us to completely relinquish final say in our lives, and make God our primary source of authority, we are able to follow that directive and thereby obtain the spiritual means to comply. We become "Born Again."

Some Christians try to dismiss the confusion over formulations of Salvation on the premise that we begin as sinners and end as sinners even after we come under Grace. We are not instantly transformed into saints--we simply become God's People by covenant in the act of acknowledging it and following that directive.
to thee
A formula for becoming "Born Again" can become an "oversimplification" of the Salvation formula. We go from sinner to saint only in the sense that 1) we come under covenant with God, 2) we come under grace, and 3) we live by our substitute and not by our carnal being. As such, we are Born Again but not living in righteousness except on the basis of Grace until we obtain glorification.

Only Israel is Born Again in John 2: 3 ,

When anyone does Rom 10:9 there is NO WATER // HYDOR , PERIOD !!

Like in John 2:5 Jesus answered , Verily , I say unto you , except a man be BORN of WATER ( notice it does be

BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO at all ) it says , of the SPIRIT , cannot enter into the Kingdom of God .

dan p

 

[soldier of light]

Evangelicals teach a momentous change from sinner to saint by a formulation called being "Born Again." And this implies for some an immediate change, and for others, a progressive change. In reality I think it is both.

I do think there is an immediate Born Again change when we begin to acknowledge that Christ is our substitute, when we put that reality into motion by accepting God's Word in our lives that enables us to live according to that directive. Just like when our employer tells us to do something he provides the means for us to do it, we can do God's word when He gives us the command to do it.

Even more, when God tells us to completely relinquish final say in our lives, and make God our primary source of authority, we are able to follow that directive and thereby obtain the spiritual means to comply. We become "Born Again."

Some Christians try to dismiss the confusion over formulations of Salvation on the premise that we begin as sinners and end as sinners even after we come under Grace. We are not instantly transformed into saints--we simply become God's People by covenant in the act of acknowledging it and following that directive.

A formula for becoming "Born Again" can become an "oversimplification" of the Salvation formula. We go from sinner to saint only in the sense that 1) we come under covenant with God, 2) we come under grace, and 3) we live by our substitute and not by our carnal being. As such, we are Born Again but not living in righteousness except on the basis of Grace until we obtain glorification.

My works are of righteousness. They're the Lord's works and I can't boast yet I'm happy to do them. I'm happy when I obey the Lord.

 

[th1bill]

I was overcome with Ruah, the Holy Spirit, and was radically changed. From that moment I have transitioned into a more radical Christian and I am forever accused of arrogance because I point out that without Ruah (pronounced ru-ack) nobody is saved. I pray folks will be used of Yehovah because of your post.

 

[RandyPNW]

I was overcome with Ruah, the Holy Spirit, and was radically changed. From that moment I have transitioned into a more radical Christian and I am forever accused of arrogance because I point out that without Ruah (pronounced ru-ack) nobody is saved. I pray folks will be used of Yehovah because of your post.

So happy for you, and that you've joined God's Remnant. Truth is not arrogance!

 

[RandyPNW]

Only Israel is Born Again in John 2: 3 ,

When anyone does Rom 10:9 there is NO WATER // HYDOR , PERIOD !!

Like in John 2:5 Jesus answered , Verily , I say unto you , except a man be BORN of WATER ( notice it does be

BAPTIZED // BAPTIZO at all ) it says , of the SPIRIT , , e cannot enter into the Kingdom of God .

dan p

I'm having a difficult time with this, Dan! It may help if you re-send with corrections?
I cannot say, however, that "only Israel is Born Again." While it is true that Jesus said this while still under the Law, when Israel alone was in focus, it does not mean that it does not apply under the New Covenant and to non-Jews. Peter certainly taught it as all-encompassing, although in his letters he also speaks directly to Jewish believers.

To be born of "water and the Spirit" refers to being born from above, or from heaven, in order to partake of the Spirit in a new way. I believe the OT saints should've understood being "born again" in the sense that they did partake of the Holy Spirit through the ever-abiding word of God. But John the Baptist inferred that Jesus was going to take this a step further, which we now know means that this "rebirth" results in Salvation under the New Covenant of Christ.

We are initially born from the womb, which is what "water" refers to, I think. Then we are born from something above this material plane, through God Himself in heaven. The word of God, originating from heaven, not only abides with our conscience, but comes to permanently reside in us when we are reborn through the Holy Spirit in conjunction with the work of Christ.

It's pretty simple, but I probably over-complicate it.

 

[NBB]

Being born again is receiving Christ Spirit, you pass from spiritually dead to alive with the spirit of God.
If you didn't get filled with the Holy spirit, then you need to ask for it, like when they said to the believers: "Did you receive the Holy spirit, when you believed?"

The first part is as important as the second to live as christian, being filled with the Holy spirit for me is meaning of life, a lot of christians miss being filled. Specially because bad theologies etc.

 

[soldier of light]

I'm free from the sin I was a slave to. I have mental battles because of mental illness, but I also have much joy, peace, faith, hope and love. I think I'm filled with the spirit but only God knows. As Paul said, I don't judge myself but wait for God to judge

 

[Zceptre]

I used to call myself a wretched sinner, and we are all such without Christ.

I had a brother years ago tell me, "You are the righteousness of Christ."

When I would object to this assertion he would simply tell me, "You will get there one day little brother."

Being sin conscious, locks a person into a sinful state and holds them prisoner there permanently.

We are Saints, not sinners.

Christ sets us free of sin by declaring the tree(us) to be good, so that we may be made free of the guilt and condemnation of sin and have a new mindset and focus, which is His righteousness.

The New Testament, for those who are genuinely seeking the truth of this, does not record the short-falls of the Patriarchs... the Saints of old.

Rather, in Hebrews 11, God speaks through Paul with great grace and covers them in the righteousness of Christ with His Word attesting to them as faithful and overcoming all things by their trust and faith in God.

It does not record Abraham doubting God and trying to make a way himself with his mistress... Nor does it record Sarah laughing at the Almighty when He states she will have a child in old age... Nor, again, does it record Moses as a man who killed another.

Isaiah 54:17 ends by stating "their righteousness is from Me..."

Philippians 2:12 says to work out our own salvation. This means if you have doubts, to take them to God in prayer and seek His guidance and council and work toward having a solid relationship with Him where you can TRUST in Him and in what HE done for "you."

Working out your salvation means knowing you are His by the evidence in your heart, in your actions, in your life.

If you are the same person today, that you were 2 years ago. Check yourself, because God will not let His Sons and Daughters stay the same. Holy Spirit will change you into a more loving person and a more Holy person... a person who dislikes evil, sin, and anything that separates you from God.

Born Again people know they are born again because they are "slaves to righteousness." (Romans 6:18)

This means you can't help but love God and hate sin. It means you are falling in love with the person who is living inside you. (Holy Spirit)

Only God knows (and the person themselves) who is truly His. I can pick my brothers and sisters in Christ out, for sure. But I can't say I know who God will not save. He could change them last minute. He is perfect love.

But to be Born Again... is to be a Saint. Not a "dirty sinner." That is a trap laid by Satan to torture a Believer that wants to be free of sin.

I lived in that trap many years of my life, so I've been inside that prison, and outside of it.

Born Again is "knowing" God. This comes with being filled with His love and a strong desire to be closer to Him, no matter what that costs us.

John 17:3 - 1 John 4:7-8

John 3:18-21
18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

God's light, is love. Jesus is light. Jesus is love. The way, the truth, the life.

1 Corinthians 13:13

This is the evidence of being Born Again. God's love and truth inside us. (John 13:35)

 

[RandyPNW]

Being born again is receiving Christ Spirit, you pass from spiritually dead to alive with the spirit of God.
If you didn't get filled with the Holy spirit, then you need to ask for it, like when they said to the believers: "Did you receive the Holy spirit, when you believed?"

The first part is as important as the second to live as christian, being filled with the Holy spirit for me is meaning of life, a lot of christians miss being filled. Specially because bad theologies etc.

Really good point because Christianity is so old in the world now that Christians have grown up purely nominal Christians in reality. That is, they call themselves Christians because in a sense they are. But they are just following customs and the Christian culture, trying to keep the 10 Commandments while really living in their carnal selves.

I should know--that's how I grew up. I prayed every day, and talked to God regularly, asked Him for things, and saw answers to prayers. But I didn't really know the "abundant life" until I gave my all to Him and received the Holy Spirit. Then I knew what true Christianity is, what true rebirth is.

So I like what you say. Because of the evolution of Nominal Christianity Christians like me, who came to understand that they were largely just "Christians in Name" began to emphasize a "2nd Work" or a "3rd Work" of the Holy Spirit, ie 1) believing in Christ, 2) becoming righteous like Christ, and 3) being led by the Spirit like Christ.

Well said!

 

[soldier of light]

Where does God's chastening fit into this?

 

[Aaron112]

Where does God's chastening fit into this?

A son left to his own way is a shame to his mother and ? to his father.
Spare the rod (proper discipline at the right time) and the child gets rotten.

God Knows perfectly how to discipline us His children daily and completely for our own good , in His Delight, Joy, Peace, Righteousness, and Wholeness, Correctly.

 

[Aaron112]

Where does God's chastening fit into this?

"“My son, don’t despise the discipline of Adonai
or become despondent when he corrects you.
6 For Adonai disciplines those he loves
and whips everyone he accepts as a son.”[c]
7 Regard your endurance as discipline; God is dealing with you as sons. For what son goes undisciplined by his father? 8 All legitimate sons undergo discipline; so if you don’t, you’re a mamzer and not a son!"

 

[soldier of light]

A son left to his own way is a shame to his mother and ? to his father.
Spare the rod (proper discipline at the right time) and the child gets rotten.

God Knows perfectly how to discipline us His children daily and completely for our own good , in His Delight, Joy, Peace, Righteousness, and Wholeness, Correctly.

Amen

 

[RandyPNW]

I used to call myself a wretched sinner, and we are all such without Christ.

I had a brother years ago tell me, "You are the righteousness of Christ."

When I would object to this assertion he would simply tell me, "You will get there one day little brother."

Being sin conscious, locks a person into a sinful state and holds them prisoner there permanently.

We are Saints, not sinners.

Christ sets us free of sin by declaring the tree(us) to be good, so that we may be made free of the guilt and condemnation of sin and have a new mindset and focus, which is His righteousness.

The New Testament, for those who are genuinely seeking the truth of this, does not record the short-falls of the Patriarchs... the Saints of old.

Rather, in Hebrews 11, God speaks through Paul with great grace and covers them in the righteousness of Christ with His Word attesting to them as faithful and overcoming all things by their trust and faith in God.

It does not record Abraham doubting God and trying to make a way himself with his mistress... Nor does it record Sarah laughing at the Almighty when He states she will have a child in old age... Nor, again, does it record Moses as a man who killed another.

Isaiah 54:17 ends by stating "their righteousness is from Me..."

Philippians 2:12 says to work out our own salvation. This means if you have doubts, to take them to God in prayer and seek His guidance and council and work toward having a solid relationship with Him where you can TRUST in Him and in what HE done for "you."

Working out your salvation means knowing you are His by the evidence in your heart, in your actions, in your life.

If you are the same person today, that you were 2 years ago. Check yourself, because God will not let His Sons and Daughters stay the same. Holy Spirit will change you into a more loving person and a more Holy person... a person who dislikes evil, sin, and anything that separates you from God.

Born Again people know they are born again because they are "slaves to righteousness." (Romans 6:18)

This means you can't help but love God and hate sin. It means you are falling in love with the person who is living inside you. (Holy Spirit)

Only God knows (and the person themselves) who is truly His. I can pick my brothers and sisters in Christ out, for sure. But I can't say I know who God will not save. He could change them last minute. He is perfect love.

But to be Born Again... is to be a Saint. Not a "dirty sinner." That is a trap laid by Satan to torture a Believer that wants to be free of sin.

I lived in that trap many years of my life, so I've been inside that prison, and outside of it.

Born Again is "knowing" God. This comes with being filled with His love and a strong desire to be closer to Him, no matter what that costs us.

John 17:3 - 1 John 4:7-8

John 3:18-21
18“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

God's light, is love. Jesus is light. Jesus is love. The way, the truth, the life.

1 Corinthians 13:13

This is the evidence of being Born Again. God's love and truth inside us. (John 13:35)

Lots of good material there. Thanks!

 

[RandyPNW]

Where does God's chastening fit into this?

Someone said you can break a horse, but if you try to break a zebra you will destroy it. We were made, like horses, to be broken. Once we get over the fear of being dominated by God He can "ride" us, or in other words, direct us in the ways of life. Once we learn how beautiful that is we likely won't be going back to being an unbroken wild horse.

 

[soldier of light]

Someone said you can break a horse, but if you try to break a zebra you will destroy it. We were made, like horses, to be broken. Once we get over the fear of being dominated by God He can "ride" us, or in other words, direct us in the ways of life. Once we learn how beautiful that is we likely won't be going back to being an unbroken wild horse.

I love the Lord's correction. Whatever keeps me on the right path

 

[Aaron112]

I love the Lord's correction. Whatever keeps me on the right path

28-30 “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion?
Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life.
I’ll show you how to take a real rest.
Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it.

Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”

 

[soldier of light]

28-30 “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion?
Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life.
I’ll show you how to take a real rest.
Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it.

Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”

Amen

 

[Dan Perez]

Evangelicals teach a momentous change from sinner to saint by a formulation called being "Born Again." And this implies for some an immediate change, and for others, a progressive change. In reality I think it is both.

I do think there is an immediate Born Again change when we begin to acknowledge that Christ is our substitute, when we put that reality into motion by accepting God's Word in our lives that enables us to live according to that directive. Just like when our employer tells us to do something he provides the means for us to do it, we can do God's word when He gives us the command to do it.

Even more, when God tells us to completely relinquish final say in our lives, and make God our primary source of authority, we are able to follow that directive and thereby obtain the spiritual means to comply. We become "Born Again."

Some Christians try to dismiss the confusion over formulations of Salvation on the premise that we begin as sinners and end as sinners even after we come under Grace. We are not instantly transformed into saints--we simply become God's People by covenant in the act of acknowledging it and following that directive.

A formula for becoming "Born Again" can become an "oversimplification" of the Salvation formula. We go from sinner to saint only in the sense that 1) we come under covenant with God, 2) we come under grace, and 3) we live by our substitute and not by our carnal being. As such, we are Born Again but not living in righteousness except on the basis of Grace until we obtain glorification.

Then do you believe 1 John 5:18 that says , We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT // and the word

NOT // MU , is a SUBJUNCTIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means , you can never sin ever again !!

Need a verse for the salvation FORMULA , as I have never heard of it ??

dan p