Born Again?

[extreme_zeal777]

Iam sure we are all aware of the term "born again" but few fail to grasp the deeper understanding of this belief in which Jesus mentioned in scripture stating, "In order for one to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be born again of water and spirit.

Water symbolizes cleansing, purity, refreshment, thus if we reflect back to the story of Noah and the great flood, one will understand the deeper meaning regarding how water is symbolized.
Being born again of water and spirit would ultimately be purifying, refreshing the spirit, through the holy spirit.

Water is also symbolized as spirit.
It's but a mere analogy, revealing the vastness, the formless, and the pure nature reflected.
When Christ states, "In order to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born of water and spirit, it would best be interpreted as in order to enter the kingdom of God, one must be born again into his spirit, the holy spirit, which cleanses the sinful pollution within our individual spirits making it pure.

A renewal of the mind, which transforms us into a new creature, developing a new character, the very character of God.
"Born again", correlates with the sole purpose that Jesus manifested himself, and was crucified.
The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is merely a direct reflection, of being born again.
In order to be born again we must die too self, and ressurect in him.

 

[awitch]

Water symbolizes cleansing, purity, refreshment, thus if we reflect back to the story of Noah and the great flood, one will understand the deeper meaning regarding how water is symbolized.

I'm not sure "cleansing", "purity", and "refreshment" are the cheerful sounding words I would use to associate with planetary genocide by drowning. What's so "great" about giving the planet a giant swirly anyway?

 

[Zoness]

Interestingly enough, I never really heard the phrase "born again" growing up (Catholic) but rather when I ran in evangelical circles, it was everywhere. Looking on the internet, I never saw it in Orthodox circles either. Maybe Via Crucis or seashale can explain this? I'm assuming its a phenomenon of the Baptist faith or other Protestant branches that place emphasis on adult, consensual baptism as a form of accepting Christianity.

But I also agree with awitch...

 

[extreme_zeal777]

Pertaining to the story of Noah, i was merely speaking in regards too the symbolism, of the flood.
Water for example is required in baptism, God used water to cleanse the world of its wickedness during the time of Noah.

 

[extreme_zeal777]

I felt the need to emphasize not only on the scripture, where Jesus is laying out the requirement in entering God's kingdom, by being born again of water and spirit, but also water baptism.

I've noticed that many believers do not address the meaning of water being relevant, but also do not even know why it's relevant.
Water in iteself when observed philisophically contains a deep symbolic meaning.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Interestingly enough, I never really heard the phrase "born again" growing up (Catholic) but rather when I ran in evangelical circles, it was everywhere. Looking on the internet, I never saw it in Orthodox circles either. Maybe Via Crucis or seashale can explain this? I'm assuming its a phenomenon of the Baptist faith or other Protestant branches that place emphasis on adult, consensual baptism as a form of accepting Christianity.

But I also agree with awitch...

The term "born again" isn't used very often in traditional circles, instead it's more common to hear "new birth" or perhaps even more, "regeneration".

Another reason is that in the Revivalist and now Evangelical tradition(s) being "born again" has been detached from its historical meaning (the Sacrament of Baptism) and transformed as a particular kind of individual conversion experience.

For Catholics, Lutherans, Orthodox, etc the baptized person has received the new birth, and since for most of Christian history Christians were baptized when they were infants or children there was little emphasis needed to be spoken about in predominantly Christian societies. Medieval Europe, for example, was filled with people who were with rather few exceptions entirely baptized Christians. That only changed in the last couple hundred years with the advent of the Anabaptists and subsequent credobaptist traditions and denominations.

So, simply put, for most Christians this is an example of someone being born again:

There's no especially deeper or more mystical meaning than this, because for us Baptism is an already especially deep and mysterious moment and act of God where we are united to the crucified and risen Christ and given a new identity in Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[extreme_zeal777]

I never really understood infant baptism, sure it looks cute, and seems as if it is the wise thing to do, seeing as we were born into sin, therefore baptizing an infant immediately reconciles them back unto God.

But true baptism regards a renewal of the mind, a development of a Godly nature.
One has to be consciously aware, only in order to be able to make the choice to develop a Godly character, an infant is not necessarily consciously mature to make decisions therefore, all that is taking place is just merely a ritual.
Baptism has to begin from within a person, there must first be a choice to be reborn into God's spirit for the process to have any affect.☺

 

[ViaCrucis]

I never really understood infant baptism, sure it looks cute, and seems as if it is the wise thing to do, seeing as we were born into sin, therefore baptizing an infant immediately reconciles them back unto God.

But true baptism regards a renewal of the mind, a development of a Godly nature.
One has to be consciously aware, only in order to be able to make the choice to develop a Godly character, an infant is not necessarily consciously mature to make decisions therefore, all that is taking place is just merely a ritual.
Baptism has to begin from within a person, there must first be a choice to be reborn into God's spirit for the process to have any affect.☺

As a Lutheran I'm what's known as a Monergist. Monergism, from mono "alone" and ergo "work" "energy", refers to the fact that in salvation God alone works; it is in contrast to Synergism, from syn "together" and ergo--that is, God and man cooperate together in man's salvation.

Certain key biblical texts which Monergists look to include Ephesians 2:8 and John 1:12-13.

Our salvation; that is God's rescue of the world in Christ and our individual participation in that, is a fairly large project but our entrance into it is entirely apart from ourselves. That is my salvation is not found in my acceptance of God, it is instead found solely in Christ's death and resurrection. To get us from point A (Christ's work) to point B (the individual) we speak of God's Means of Grace, Word and Sacrament, and that these are in and of themselves efficacious to accomplish what they promise because God has so willed it. Therefore the one who is baptized is, in fact, united to Christ, buried with Christ, crucified with Christ, and raised up with Christ--whether they understand that or not is irrelevant; the promise of God is faithful and true regardless of our conscious, intellectual understanding of it. Since salvation is not about comprehending God, or having a particular kind of knowledge, or believing the right things, or having the right ideas; salvation is God's own gracious condescension into the world, in Jesus Christ, to rescue the world which He loves.

This isn't to say that growing in understanding doesn't matter--it does. Which is why, for example, not only do the parents of the infant being baptized promise to raise their child up in the faith, but the entire congregation joins together in making that promise too. Because in baptism the individual is brought together into the community, they are now a member of Christ's Body, and Christ's Body exists together in communion with one another, to grow together and build one another up in love as we come together to receive Word and Sacrament, offer thanksgiving and praise, and devote ourselves to the commandments of God in love of God and for the sake of our neighbor.

Growing in knowledge of the faith, maturing, learning repentance all these things are simply part of what it means to be part of the Church--so that the baptized child grows, learns, and is raised up in the faith. They may, once they are older, turn away. That happens. So no one is going to pretend as though Baptism is the end of the Christian life, Baptism is the beginning, but it is the defining of the Christian life--the Christian life is a baptized life. Luther, for example, highly encouraged regular, daily remembrance of our baptism. Anytime we wash our face we should remember that we are baptized, this is why we continue in the ancient tradition of the Church in making the sign of the cross upon ourselves, and are encouraged to say, baptisimus sum, "I am baptized".

But since, in Baptism, the gracious activity of God is accomplished because He is faithful in His promises, and His word can never be voided--anyone who is baptized is truly baptized and the promises of God are in effect. Not because there is some mystical power in the water, but because in Baptism water is united and connected to God's word, and God's word is never ineffectual. When Christ turned to the thief on the cross and said, "You will be with Me in Paradise" it was true and certain, and we can trust this word with our lives.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Luke17:37]

Iam sure we are all aware of the term "born again" but few fail to grasp the deeper understanding of this belief in which Jesus mentioned in scripture stating, "In order for one to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be born again of water and spirit.

Water symbolizes cleansing, purity, refreshment, thus if we reflect back to the story of Noah and the great flood, one will understand the deeper meaning regarding how water is symbolized.
Being born again of water and spirit would ultimately be purifying, refreshing the spirit, through the holy spirit.

Water is also symbolized as spirit.
It's but a mere analogy, revealing the vastness, the formless, and the pure nature reflected.
When Christ states, "In order to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born of water and spirit, it would best be interpreted as in order to enter the kingdom of God, one must be born again into his spirit, the holy spirit, which cleanses the sinful pollution within our individual spirits making it pure.

A renewal of the mind, which transforms us into a new creature, developing a new character, the very character of God.
"Born again", correlates with the sole purpose that Jesus manifested himself, and was crucified.
The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is merely a direct reflection, of being born again.
In order to be born again we must die too self, and ressurect in him.

This is one of my favorite sermons my pastor has given. It goes into an explanation for why we need to be "born again."

https://www.mcleanbible.org/sermons/necessity-changing-races-0

Main Scriptures: Genesis 3, John 3.

 

[Geralt]

born again = born from above = born of the spirit
is entirely God's work. you do not born again yourself by doing something.

a baby is born due to the will of the parents, not the baby itself. he had no prior consciousness nor the will to create himself and be born. same is true with those born of the spirit, entirely the will of God. and God's work (those born again) is unpredictable like the wind, you do not have control over it nor see when or where it is coming. it is free to move wherever it chooses.

you do not become born again by something you do or decide. you do not become born again by undergoing baptism, or some other ritual. it is not induced by programs or the altar call, or the "say this prayer with me" scripts.

Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:4-6​

that is why regeneration precedes faith. we choose christ because beforehand God has already work on us (born again).

Iam sure we are all aware of the term "born again" but few fail to grasp the deeper understanding of this belief in which Jesus mentioned in scripture stating, "In order for one to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be born again of water and spirit.
..
The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is merely a direct reflection, of being born again.
In order to be born again we must die too self, and ressurect in him.

 

[Robban]

Iam sure we are all aware of the term "born again" but few fail to grasp the deeper understanding of this belief in which Jesus mentioned in scripture stating, "In order for one to enter the kingdom of heaven they must be born again of water and spirit.

Water symbolizes cleansing, purity, refreshment, thus if we reflect back to the story of Noah and the great flood, one will understand the deeper meaning regarding how water is symbolized.
Being born again of water and spirit would ultimately be purifying, refreshing the spirit, through the holy spirit.

Water is also symbolized as spirit.
It's but a mere analogy, revealing the vastness, the formless, and the pure nature reflected.
When Christ states, "In order to enter the kingdom of heaven, one must be born of water and spirit, it would best be interpreted as in order to enter the kingdom of God, one must be born again into his spirit, the holy spirit, which cleanses the sinful pollution within our individual spirits making it pure.

A renewal of the mind, which transforms us into a new creature, developing a new character, the very character of God.
"Born again", correlates with the sole purpose that Jesus manifested himself, and was crucified.
The crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is merely a direct reflection, of being born again.
In order to be born again we must die too self, and ressurect in him.

Why can it not mean the normal process observed during every human birth?

We have to start somewhere, first by a physical birth.

 

[Robban]

Why can it not mean the normal process observed during every human birth?

We have to start somewhere, first by a physical birth.

Born of water,
Annointed by oil,

Water and oil do not mix well.

 

[Luke17:37]

Why can it not mean the normal process observed during every human birth?

We have to start somewhere, first by a physical birth.

It starts with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins... and this is a gift from God.

 

[juvenissun]

Interestingly enough, I never really heard the phrase "born again" growing up (Catholic) but rather when I ran in evangelical circles, it was everywhere. Looking on the internet, I never saw it in Orthodox circles either. Maybe Via Crucis or seashale can explain this? I'm assuming its a phenomenon of the Baptist faith or other Protestant branches that place emphasis on adult, consensual baptism as a form of accepting Christianity.

But I also agree with awitch...

Yes, be "born again" is a Christian-only way to describe ??? (a birth process). It is unique and has an unique theology.
In order to understand the "born-again", we need first to understand the birth. Do you understand the birth of a person? I don't think so. Because you do not believe in the existence of soul. You can not understand why you are unique you, but not the same as another person.
In that case, you would never understand what is the meaning of been born "again".

 

[Robban]

It starts with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins... and this is a gift from God.

Putting the cart before the horse is not such a good idea.

First we have to be born, meaning, we are not angels or gods.

 

[dfw69]

Putting the cart before the horse is not such a good idea.

First we have to be born, meaning, we are not angels or gods.

We are not angels or gods now in the flesh but God is Abel to make men as the Angels to live forever and as gods able to empower man through his spirit to perform godly acts ..and is able to create a new creation to become the sons of God ...this is not putting the cart before the horse

 

[Zoness]

Yes, be "born again" is a Christian-only way to describe ??? (a birth process). It is unique and has an unique theology.
In order to understand the "born-again", we need first to understand the birth. Do you understand the birth of a person? I don't think so. Because you do not believe in the existence of soul. You can not understand why you are unique you, but not the same as another person.
In that case, you would never understand what is the meaning of been born "again".

Wow a little hostile today, aren't we? Besides, where did I say I didn't believe in a soul? I'm awaiting your exact citation. Furthermore
are you implying Catholics and Orthodox aren't Christian?

This whole post makes no sense to me.

 

[Rajni]

As a Lutheran I'm what's known as a Monergist. Monergism, from mono "alone" and ergo "work" "energy", refers to the fact that in salvation God alone works;

born again = born from above = born of the spirit
is entirely God's work. you do not born again yourself by doing something.

a baby is born due to the will of the parents, not the baby itself. he had no prior consciousness nor the will to create himself and be born. same is true with those born of the spirit, entirely the will of God. and God's work (those born again) is unpredictable like the wind, you do not have control over it nor see when or where it is coming. it is free to move wherever it chooses.

Yes, this is how I see it. If personal effort were part of the process of being "born again", then I would think that Jesus would've chosen another way of phrasing it rather than using birth-related terminology.

Birth is something done to the one being born, not by the one being born.


-

 

[Robban]

We are not angels or gods now in the flesh but God is Abel to make men as the Angels to live forever and as gods able to empower man through his spirit to perform godly acts ..and is able to create a new creation to become the sons of God ...this is not putting the cart before the horse

Out of thin air?

The one who I replied to said, "It starts with repentence"

It starts by being first born,

One thing at a time, first the natural, after the spiritual.

Born of water, It is not about He can do this that or the other,

The "Bible" talks to us where we are at, in the situation we find ourselves in.

If we cannot find ourselves somewhere in the stories, we don,t exist.

Moses said, "If you cannot forgive them, then strike my name out of the book you are Writing."
Moses is not mentioned in the rest of that chapter.
It goes to show,
You have to be careful what you say.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Mystery religions habitually revolved around rebirth looooooooong before Christianity appeared on the stage of world history. The Eleusinian mysteries (connected to the mythology of the fertility goddess spending half the year in the realm of the dead) were all about that.

In fact, rebirth is one of THE central motif of shamanism as well, pre-dating organized religion by millennia (at the very least). A shaman's initiation experience usually involves death and rebirth: the shaman descends into the underworld, the realm of the dead. They are torn apart, reduced to bones and ashes, and only then re-form to become a new person, rising above and emerging.