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Book of Thomas?

Radagast

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...the other issue that has been raised is that over half of Jesus sayings are mentioned in the NT...so why would some be accepted and not others?

The gnostics picked out ones they agreed with, and made up others, obviously. Kind of how the gnostic Marcion edited Luke.

And one key piece of evidence on the date is that early Christian writers quote the 4 gospels, but never Thomas. In fact, some early Christian writers explicitly say that there are only 4 gospels.
 
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Zanting

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I thank you for enlightening me re Gnostics and who they were/are. I really know nothing about them or their beliefs. I certainly agree that God did not intend to keep secrets or for man to create some form of secret Christian faith with some form of initiation to be let in on them.
Your narrative has made things much clearer, and truly addresses my question. From what you have described as gnostic, Thomas is out and not in the canon because of the term secret (making it gnostic) and because of when it was written.
So although many of the sayings are very similar to those in the four Gospels, the rest were added and not necessarily Jesus true words as they are found no where else in the Gospels. It is amazing to me how Jesus teachings became so distorted so quickly. Perhaps that's why He states so many times in the scripture "He that hath ears to hear, let them hear.
 
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ebia

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There are two big issues with Gnosticism.

One is the secret knowledge stuff.

The other is its dualism. Gnosticism says that the physical creation is inherently a bad thing to be escaped. Christianty says that the physical creation is a good (though marred) thing that God is putting right.

Decontextualising is part of that. Real Christianity is not about timeless truths but about solid events in real history. Taking Jesus sayings apart from the actions and circumstances is part of that gnostic move to spiritualise everything.
 
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Zanting

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Yeah...I am starting to learn about Gnosticism, which is all very new to me. I do believe that we have a spiritual relationship with God, but that is no secret and it doesn't involve gaining any kind of secret knowledge after some sort of initiation into a faith or belief. Educating myself is important and one of the reasons I like CF is because I get to learn from others having different backgrounds or are from different denominations that can fill in details or offer more insight from varied perspectives. Questions do come up as I learn more and more about Christianity, past, present and what is yet to come.
The dualism thing...well from reading the old testament, I know that God was upset with how things were unfolding due to the fallen angels and damned His own creation back in the days of Noah...consequently the flood. And of course, after the flood, things got bad all over again so He sends Jesus, His son, here to restore faith and belief in Him and of course Jesus sacrifice changed everything. And Christianity evolves from there. I know this is very oversimplfied, just the bare basics. So we have the OT to tell us what happened, why it happened the way that it did and what was to come and then we have the NT to teach us about what to do now if we chose to become Christians and follow the message sent from God through His son Jesus. It also reveals to us that what is to come will be far worse than anything that has happened in the past since the earth at present is under satans rule. Jesus arrival on the scene, however, is Gods promise that we can be saved from all of that through His sacrifice...if and only if we chose His way.
But...God did create a perfectly ordered earth that provided us we everything we need. It was Satan and his fallen angels who came along and threw disorder into the mix. At least that is what I understand from the scripture...but more insight would be great...:)
 
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JHM

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Never having read the Book of Thomas, I can't comment on that; but there are secret books in the Bible.

See 2 Esdras 14 : 1 - 7 (New Revised Standard Version Oxford) Re secret books of Moses

2 Esdras 14 : 1 - 7 (New Revised Standard Version)
On the third day, while I was sitting under an Oak, suddenly a voice came out of a bush opposite me and said, "Ezra, Ezra !" And I answered, "Here I am, Lord ," and I rose to my feet. Then he said to me, "I revealed myself in a bush and spoke to Moses when my people were in bondage in Egypt ; and I sent him and led my people out of Egypt ; and I led him up on Mount Sinai, where I kept him with me many days . I told him many wondrous things , and showed him the secrets of the times and declared to him the end of times . Then I commanded him saying , ‘These words you shall publish openly, and these you shall keep secret.’


See 2 Esdras 14 : 19 - 26 & 37 - 48 (New Rervised Standard Version Oxford) Re secret books of Esdras

2 Esdras 14 : 19 - 26 (New Revised Standard Version)
Then I answered and said, "Let me speak in your presence Lord . For I will go as you have commanded me , and I will reprove the people who are now living ; but who will warn those who will be born hereafter ? For the world lies in darkness , and its inhabitants are without light . For your law has been burned , and no one knows the things which have been done or will be done by you . If then I have found favour with you , send the Holy Spirit into me , and I will write everything which has happened in the world from the beginning , the things that were written in your law , so that people may be able to find the path , and that those who want to live in the last days may do so . He answered me and said "Go and gather the people , and tell them not to seek you for forty days. But prepare for yourself many writing tablets , and take with you Sarea , Dabria , Selemia , Ethanus , and Asiel – these five , who are trained to write rapidly ; and you shall come here , and I will light in your heart the lamp of understanding , which shall not be put out until what you are about to write is finished . And when you have finished , some things you shall make public , and some you shall deliver in secret to the wise ; tomorrow at this hour you shall begin to write."

2 Esdras 14 : 37 - 48 (New Revised Standard Version)
So I took the five men as he commanded me , and we proceeded to the field , and remained there . And on the next day a voice called me saying , "Ezra , open your mouth and drink what I give you to drink ." So I opened my mouth , and a full cup was offered to me ; it was full of something like water , but its color was like fire . I took it and drank ; and when I had drank it , my heart poured forth understanding , and wisdom increased in my breast , for my spirit retained its memory , and my mouth was opened and no longer closed . Moreover , the Most High gave understanding to the five men , and by turns they wrote what was dictated , using characters that they did not know . They sat forty days ; they wrote during the daytime , and ate their bread at night . But as for me , I spoke in the daytime and was not silent at night . So during the forty days , ninety-four books were written . And when the forty days ended , the Most High spoke to me , saying , "Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first , and let the worthy and the unworthy read them ; but keep the seventy that were written last , in order to give them to the wise among your people . For in them is the spring of understanding , the fountain of wisdom , and the river of knowledge . " And I did so .

See Mark 4 : 21 - 25 (Revised Standard Version) Re secret things coming to light

Mark 4 : 21 - 25 (Revised Standard Version)
And he said to them , "Is a lamp brought in to be put under a bushel , or under a bed , and not on a stand ? For there is nothing hid except to be made manifest ; nor is anything secret , except to come to light . If any man has ears to hear , let him hear ." And he said to them , "Take heed what you hear ; the measure you give will be the measure you get , and still more will be given you . For to him who has will more be given ; and from him who has not , even what he has will be taken away ."

Problem being those who don't believe there are secret things, won't believe said secret things when they do come to light.
 
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Radagast

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Why was the Book of Thomas left out of the canon? Wasn't it simply a preachers handbook of Jesus sayings?

Because:

(1) it was written a century or so after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

(2) it was written by Gnostics, outside the Christian community, and was never used by Christians

(3) it contains heretical things that Jesus did not say, like "I myself shall lead her {Mary} in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
 
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Zanting

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I believe God reveals Himself if you are on His path. Through whatever our journey is to Him, Jesus is by our side. The Holy Spirit directs us through scripture, encounters with others, prayer and how we live. And we draw ever closer to God. Curiosity about how everything evolved after Jesus was born is part of the quest to know God. For that we rely heavily on historians and ancient texts/writing. Many perhaps only select few will ever see that are in the Vatcan's library.

But are they secrets or hidden truths for those who have ears let them hear, for those who have eyes let them see? God doesn't keep secrets, man does. But God will hide the truth from satans followers. And all will be revealed when Jesus returns. All the lies man has told and all the secrets they have kept will be revealed. I beleive that once God is in your life you leave your fears, concerns and worries with Him and pray for your family, friends, loved ones and for the people. Gods plan will come to pass, and we must be prepared.
 
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Ave Maria

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:wave:

...learning new things all the time...

Why was the Book of Thomas left out of the canon? Wasn't it simply a preachers handbook of Jesus sayings?

I know it is suject to controversial interpretation, but controversial interpretation is found throughout the canon already. For me, these documented sayings from Jesus only confirm what I already believe and bring me closer to understanding God the father, Jesus the son, and Gods Holy Spirit.

Was an error made by leaving the Book of Thomas out of the canon?

:confused:

I think you are referring to the Gospel of Thomas. The reason why it was left out of the Bible is because it is a heretical Gnostic gospel. In other words it fell under this Bible passage:

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel-- not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.
(Galatians 1:6-9 RSV-CE)

The Gospel of Thomas is a false Gospel and it was definitely not written by the disciple Thomas. In fact, from what I understand, it was a common thing in ancient times to attribute a writing to another person. In other words, forgery was pretty common back then.

Here are some links to help you better understand what I am trying to explain to you:

Why isn't the Gospel of Thomas in the Bible? | Catholic Answers

Did the Church suppress the Gospel of Thomas because it was afraid of what it contained? | Catholic Answers

Is there a "secret Gospel of Mark"? | Catholic Answers

episode #040 - Busted Halo

Can you tell me a bit about the Gospel of Mary and why it is not considered canonical? - Busted Halo

Gospel of Peter

http://christianthinktank.com/gthomas.html

The Canon of the Bible

Comparison of Terms for Disputed Books

Some of these articles may not directly address the issue of the other "gospels" that were not included in the canon of the Bible but they do discuss the canon of the Bible in general and I think that this would be helpful information for you.
 
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rivertree

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I often find extra-canonical books to be of interest to me, because they can shed light on the early Christians of varying sorts, and sometimes I find inspiration and comforting words in them. Sometimes my friends speak with distain for these books, but that is because they have a deep concern that Biblical authority not be eroded.

But I am curious about them, and my heart quests for cerain things to find in them, I guess. I value old writings. I take from them what I wish, and do not hesitate to cast aside any possibly heretical statements. But that is just me, and not everyone is or should be able to do that. I just do not consider them a part of the Bible, and that is my protection.
 
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ranpleasant

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Zanting said:
I thank you for enlightening me re Gnostics and who they were/are. I really know nothing about them or their beliefs.


One thing that you should absolutely know about the Gnostics is that they are still around but under a new name. Today Gnostic believes are referred to as "New Age". In the Gnostic/New Age religion a person seeks special knowledge that will enlighten them and transform them into a god spirit. One does not have to do much figuring to conclude Gnostic/New Age is a sure path to Hell.

Ran
 
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Zanting

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Thanks for the heads up guys and the links. And rivertree...I too enjoy reading everything from that time. More to get a feel for what it was like back then and many writings add depth, culture and interesting things about the people and their struggles. Picturing life back then, and when Jesus was here was so different than today. I want to know all about it.
 
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