Bnp

[artybloke]Then why are you thinking of voting for a Nazi party?

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Perhaps he's a sympathizer......That's probably just as bad though...

I was listening to BBC5live yesterday morning and Nick Griffin was their featured guest on the phone in. I was actually pleased they had the courage to invite him on because I personally believe that his voice should be heard just as much as any other political group/organisation.

He articulated his points well, he came across as a mild-mannered almost respectable individual, but that's hardly surprising, the guy has got an image to cultivate and a brand to sell and it just so happens that his brand is, unfortunately, one of hate. He's not what you would consider your typical racist, he's not got some shaved head or tattoos of the union jack etc.. infact he even tried to disassociate himself with the thuggish element of his party (apparantly they don't exist). When one woman explained to him that some of his supporters disrupted a meeting in a Welsh village, he called her a liar and said that he would know if any of his supporters would be arrested. Maybe.....

The point is, they feel (he) feels that the white working class man is becoming less appreciated, sidelined and worst of all outnumbered. Perhaps they have a valid point. He had the audacity to say that he would consider some Sihks and even blacks (that makes me feel better) as friends, but not "family" and that is why they cannot be members of his political party.

Any Christian, any real follower of Jesus that associates themselves and aligns their political beliefs with that of the BNP in my opinion needs to take a very long, hard look at their relationship with Christ, because I tell you that no way on earth, let alone heaven will the hatred, condemnation and judgemental attitude of those who hate black people be tolerated by our Lord. No way. Nick Griffin may refer to himself as a Christian (he did yesterday) but he certainly isn't fooling God and I personally pray that he and anyone who supports him come to a repentance quickly.

Peace

I’m not exactly a great fan of the BNP policies either. But (yes, theres actually a ‘but&#8217 I’d be hesitant to suggest to Christians who support the BMP that they need to examine their faith any more than the rest of us. As someone pointed out, their support of the BMP was because he disagreed with the political stance of the OTHER parties;

....the mass murder of the unborn, the continued concreting of our greenlands, the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution, and the furtherance of an undemocratic federalist nightmare at Brussels

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Yes, culture is fluid, and yes, were all the richer for it. [and yes, I personally wouldn’t loose sleep over “the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution”]. But I doubt the attraction of the BMP is their “hatred, condemnation and judgemental attitude”. I’d guess that the attraction for many is Christians is because the BMP has sadly become, by default, the only political party in England that addresses the issues of preserving English ‘norms’ of behaviour.

I say 'sadly' because anyone questioning asylum seekers, radical islam & the eu is now labled a BMP nazi.
For example, is there anything wrong with the idea of immigrants being made to take an oath of allegiance to Westminster/Queen /whoever? And anyone whose actions break this oath gets kicked out? Sound fine by me. I'd even be willing to contribute towards their plane ticket.

But despite over 20 years as an ANL supporter, some politicaly correct liberal is still gonna view me as a nazi.

rizzla said:

I’m not exactly a great fan of the BNP policies either. But (yes, theres actually a ‘but&#8217 I’d be hesitant to suggest to Christians who support the BMP that they need to examine their faith any more than the rest of us. As someone pointed out, their support of the BMP was because he disagreed with the political stance of the OTHER parties;


Yes, culture is fluid, and yes, were all the richer for it. [and yes, I personally wouldn’t loose sleep over “the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution”]. But I doubt the attraction of the BMP is their “hatred, condemnation and judgemental attitude”. I’d guess that the attraction for many is Christians is because the BMP has sadly become, by default, the only political party in England that addresses the issues of preserving English ‘norms’ of behaviour.

I say 'sadly' because anyone questioning asylum seekers, radical islam & the eu is now labled a BMP nazi.
For example, is there anything wrong with the idea of immigrants being made to take an oath of allegiance to Westminster/Queen /whoever? And anyone whose actions break this oath gets kicked out? Sound fine by me. I'd even be willing to contribute towards their plane ticket.

But despite over 20 years as an ANL supporter, some politicaly correct liberal is still gonna view me as a nazi.

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it doesn't make you a nazi, that stuff is common sense. there has to be restrictions in everything. thinking about these things isn't the same as telling all non-whites to "go home!" (but in political speak that's "repatriation".)

Christians who support and/or agree with any racist (I stress the word any) views absolutely do need to examine their faith in Christ. In no way is being a follower of Christ and a racist in any way shape or form compatible. To suggest so is completely silly. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of the teachings of Jesus would come to the conclusion that He does not (present tense ) accept racism or racists. At least not those who do not repent.

I think Christians should be very different to the "rest of us" as you put it because we have a higher calling and we have a faith in God that goes against many of the things perhaps the "rest of you" do and think. Hating racism is not exclusive to Christians it should be something everyone does. However, the fallen nature of mankind blah, blah blah leads one to suggest that racism like many other of societies ills are part of the world in which we live.

I guess I'm just one of those Christians that likes to believe that my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ would take a stand against such hate. The form of hate that organisations that the BNP promote......

rizzla said:

I’m not exactly a great fan of the BNP policies either. But (yes, theres actually a ‘but’) I’d be hesitant to suggest to Christians who support the BMP that they need to examine their faith any more than the rest of us. As someone pointed out, their support of the BMP was because he disagreed with the political stance of the OTHER parties;


Yes, culture is fluid, and yes, were all the richer for it. [and yes, I personally wouldn’t loose sleep over “the unrelenting deconstruction of our Protestant constitution”]. But I doubt the attraction of the BMP is their “hatred, condemnation and judgemental attitude”. I’d guess that the attraction for many is Christians is because the BMP has sadly become, by default, the only political party in England that addresses the issues of preserving English ‘norms’ of behaviour.

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My problem with 'preserving the 'norms' of whatever culture is that you rapidly find that there are no 'norms' unless you start excluding people who belong as much as you do. When people talk about preserving 'norms' they are basically saying everyone else should do as I do and we should have a homogenous society. I can't imagine anything more boring.

rizzla said:

I say 'sadly' because anyone questioning asylum seekers, radical islam & the eu is now labled a BMP nazi.

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No, anyone who seeks to apply Nazi tactics - missappropriation of blame, elevation of one particular artifical set of cultural 'rules' over all others, alarmism and exagerating problems - is properly called on these underhand tactics.

rizzla said:

For example, is there anything wrong with the idea of immigrants being made to take an oath of allegiance to Westminster/Queen /whoever? And anyone whose actions break this oath gets kicked out? Sound fine by me. I'd even be willing to contribute towards their plane ticket.

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Why should they have to when we don't? How do you enforce it? Do you not then create a situation where BNP skinheads are running round hassling respectable families and bringing trumped up legal cases (wasting time in our courts) in order to try and get them kicked out?

rizzla said:

But despite over 20 years as an ANL supporter, some politicaly correct liberal is still gonna view me as a nazi.

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You haven't really proposed anything like what others on this thread have proposed. Plus you were careful to distance yourself from the BNP, which others have not done. I don't agree with you on the oath of allegiance, because I think it is tokenism and in reality would be unenforceable, but there is room for discussion on that issue.

ScottishJohn said:

People develop a seperatist attitude when they are held at arms length for long enough.

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You have obviously lived a sheltered life up there in Scotland. Jeff Spinner-Halev has written an excellent book on this subject:

Surviving Diversity: Religion and Democratic Citizenship

TemperateSeaIsland said:

From my POV the idea of a British Culture is a myth anyway; can anyone define British culture?

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That is because you buy into the rationalist myth. A thing can exist without necessary proofs. You should read more romanticism

Burke's Reflections on the Revolution in France is a classic!

I am also a great fan of Lord Acton;

"Liberty is not the power of doing what we like, but the right of being able to do what we ought."

"By liberty I mean the assurance that every man shall be protected in doing what he believes is his duty against the influence of authority and majorities, custom and opinion."

"Opinions alter, manners change, creeds rise and fall, but the moral laws are written on the table of eternity."

"Property is not the sacred right. When a rich man becomes poor it is a misfortune, it is not a moral evil. When a poor man becomes destitute, it is a moral evil, teeming with consequences and injurious to society and morality."

“Liberty is the prevention of control by others. This requires self-control and, therefore, religious and spiritual influences; education, knowledge, well-being.”

AV1611 said:

That is because you buy into the rationalist myth. A thing can exist without necessary proofs. You should read more romanticism

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TemperateSeaIsland is right man. if you have ever had black pepper on your food, eaten a tomato, had rhubarb, eaten a potato, they are all foreign. if you eat curry and chinese food, use the 12345 number system, like the fact that a '0' exists as a number, use an umbrella, the fact you use these letters to read are all thanks to foreign influence.
I've said earlier i live in a multicultural area and my way of life and whatever has not been affected.

non-religious said:

When one woman explained to him that some of his supporters disrupted a meeting in a Welsh village, he called her a liar and said that he would know if any of his supporters would be arrested. Maybe.....

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I heard the radio programme too. The lady also said that these 'BNP' members were arrested. At once I knew she was lying ... if BNP members were found acting in this kind of thuggish way, and were arrested, it would have been all over the national news.

Any Christian, any real follower of Jesus that associates themselves and aligns their political beliefs with that of the BNP in my opinion needs to take a very long, hard look at their relationship with Christ, because I tell you that no way on earth, let alone heaven will the hatred, condemnation and judgemental attitude of those who hate black people be tolerated by our Lord. No way. Nick Griffin may refer to himself as a Christian (he did yesterday) but he certainly isn't fooling God and I personally pray that he and anyone who supports him come to a repentance quickly.

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If anyone hates black people, then that would be wrong. However you are assuming you know the hearts of all BNP supporters, and are, in fact, guilty of the kind of narrow-minded and generalised prejudices which you imagine only BNP members indulge in.

non-religious said:

Christians who support and/or agree with any racist (I stress the word any) views absolutely do need to examine their faith in Christ. In no way is being a follower of Christ and a racist in any way shape or form compatible. To suggest so is completely silly. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of the teachings of Jesus would come to the conclusion that He does not (present tense ) accept racism or racists. At least not those who do not repent.

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The word 'racist' was created by Trotskyite communists to stop anyone from being able to raise a voice of protest against mass immigration, enforced multiculturalism and erosion of national sovereignty. As such, it is a concept that is opposed to the democratic process, which it seeks to subvert. When you use such generalised terms, rather than specifying actual issues, it becomes obvious you are just trying to create an impression, not actually understand those with whom you disagree. Hating other races is not the same thing as being opposed to mass immigration. People can be opposed to mass immigration for a variety of reasons. They may simply 'hate' others, but there again they might just think that the country is already stretched beyond its resources, and that with global warming and peak oil, that we need to be looking at a sustainable economy and population. Look how many houses have to be built every year - how much green land has to be destroyed, how many reservoirs need to be built. Perhaps they don't want to see their town become a crime-ridden ghetto, which I have seen happen a number of times to places I have formally lived in. Perhaps they want a future for their children, with unskilled jobs that pay a living wage, and affordable housing. They might wish to preserve their own culture and heritage (but of course everyone in the world has a culture except the English). The Chinese government are importing ethnic Chinese into many areas of China were non-ethnic Chinese live - such as Tibet. They are doing that so that the native populations no longer have their own homeland. The actions of that government are condemned by everyone - including liberals. The Palestinians wish for their own homeland too, where they can govern themselves. So fundamental is this to our diverse ethnic experience as human beings, that even Wilson's Fourteen Points embodied this principal, as has various international bodies like the United Nations. Yet you continue to ignore these natural inclinations, that God has put in our hearts since Babel for our own good, and continue to demonise anyone who opposes the globalist agenda of wiping out all ethnic, national, cultural, and sexual differences to create their sick utopian rule of the elites.

Your reasoning is as flawed as someone saying that there shouldn't be a criminal justice system because Jesus said 'turn the other cheek'. You fail to distinguish between the responsibilities of governments and of individual followers of Jesus. Jesus never did teach enforced integration btw, and one of his apostles said that the divisions of man was God-ordained. We will never live together as one people in peace and harmony until Jesus returns and establishes the kingdom of God over the nations. The attemps of socialists and capitalists to bring that to pass in order to stop all opposition to their global agenda will only end in misery for everyone.

sebastian said:

TemperateSeaIsland is right man. if you have ever had black pepper on your food, eaten a tomato, had rhubarb, eaten a potato, they are all foreign. if you eat curry and chinese food, use the 12345 number system, like the fact that a '0' exists as a number, use an umbrella, the fact you use these letters to read are all thanks to foreign influence.
I've said earlier i live in a multicultural area and my way of life and whatever has not been affected.

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The issue is not foreignness as such but culture! Drinking a pint of ale, watching cricket, walking the country lanes, enjoying a cucumber sandwich and cup of tea is all a part of our distinctive culture. Yes there are foreign elements but they form a part of our culture which is something you seem to miss.

When I lived in Gateshead I lived in the midst of a large Orthodox Jewish community. Most of the shops shut on Saturday. This is not English culture. Should they be removed? Of course not but the way we do things is our culture not what we do as such.

[TheLordReigns]I heard the radio programme too. The lady also said that these 'BNP' members were arrested. At once I knew she was lying ... if BNP members were found acting in this kind of thuggish way, and were arrested, it would have been all over the national news.

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No it wouldn't....

No-one is remotely interested in the violent reactions of a few BNP nuts. It doesn't warrent headline because people are already fully aware of the membership issues surrounding the BNP. Perhaps it's news for you, but it certainly isn't for mainstream Britian.....

We have already been there and seen it, what else is there to show?

If anyone hates black people, then that would be wrong. However you are assuming you know the hearts of all BNP supporters, and are, in fact, guilty of the kind of narrow-minded and generalised prejudices which you imagine only BNP members indulge in.

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I'm talking specifically about BNP policies. One of which is that they will only have white members. If a black political party wanted the same right I would accuse them also of being a party of hate. I'm not sure why that is so difficult for you to comprehend. They are overwhelmingly a racist party, bury your head in the sand if you want, but that's the stark reality and any affiliation with them by a Christian should be considered very carefully. There's nothing prejudiced in anything I have said, just facts. I know they can sometimes be a hard pill to swallow, for some folk anyway........

The issue is not foreignness as such but culture! Drinking a pint of ale, watching cricket, walking the country lanes, enjoying a cucumber sandwich and cup of tea is all a part of our distinctive culture.

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how are you being stopped from doing these things?

Yes there are foreign elements but they form a part of our culture which is something you seem to miss.

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and how did the get into our culture in the first place?

When I lived in Gateshead I lived in the midst of a large Orthodox Jewish community. Most of the shops shut on Saturday. This is not English culture. Should they be removed? Of course not but the way we do things is our culture not what we do as such.

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I can see how that is annoying, but what can you do? was there any other shops open? I mean it's an important part of who they are, and surely we can sypathise with that. big complanies are making us work on sundays, that's not foreign influence that's money. that's the hardest thing i find these days. my faith is hard to follow practicaly when i've been told to either work on sundays or go to church. no foreign people have stopped me, just money.

sebastian said:

I can see how that is annoying, but what can you do?

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What happens if these push Parliament to enforce their culture upon us? That is the issue I see.

Personally I take the view of Jeff Spinner-Halev and conservative communitarians rather than the BNP

Try and find a copy of Surviving Diversity: Religion and Democratic Citizenship at your library

What happens if these push Parliament to enforce their culture upon us? That is the issue I see.

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the jews have been here since cromwell, i doubt they'll bother.

sebastian said:

the jews have been here since cromwell, i doubt they'll bother.

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Hence my What if?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/29/nsharia29.xml

UK Muslims 'want Sharia law'

News - Will Canada introduce Sharia law?

AV1611 said:

Drinking a pint of ale, watching cricket, walking the country lanes, enjoying a cucumber sandwich and cup of tea is all a part of our distinctive culture.

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Problem is some of these things are part of your culture not mine and not many other peoples.

Ale = yes I enjoy drinking it and there is a culture behind the brewing but many people would not consider it part of British culture and some would regard it as a negative part.

Cricket = Boring not part of my culture

walking the country lanes = I do this but I do it for exercise and the view. I don't consider it cultural and if it is then it's certainly not exclusively British.

cucumber sandwich = Uck, I a bland sandwich is you idea of culture then...

cup of tea = Very nice but not very British, its contamination from those damn Asian peoples.

So thats 1/5 that I consider to be a part of my culture... Am I British?

The thing you're failing to grasp is that a nations culture isn't some homogeneous monolith that everyone born and bred in that nation subscribes to. It's made up of sub cultures that some people share while others dont. Sure a majority of people can share one or more of these subcultures like drinking afternoon tea with cucumber sandwiches after the cricket but these trends don't define a nations culture, its defined by each individual. Thats why I consider the idea of British culture (tm) a myth/construct.