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blasphaming the spirit?
- Thread starter Screamin'Eagle
- Start date
this is making fun of the son, the father, and the holy gosht by making fun of them, and mocking them by dressing up like them and making jokes on their works. But their are many others that you got to watch out for but I almsot made fun of the holy gosht until something in my gut told me not to and then I grew witht the lord more and more.
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TheMainException
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Man, that is something that I know, but don't understand. it has to be something quite tough to do...something that wouldn't just slip out...
I believe that there is only one way to lose your salvation and this is blaspheming the holy spirit.
Jesus_help_me...what are the others that you speak of, could you give reference to them?
I believe that there is only one way to lose your salvation and this is blaspheming the holy spirit.
Jesus_help_me...what are the others that you speak of, could you give reference to them?
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To not accecpt forgiveness is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Or to suggest that you cannot be forgiven for something. All things are forgivable except what you will not accept forgivness.
Be penitent and keep trying, God forgives everything
To sin is to miss the mark, as if you were aiming at a target.
All of us fall short of the target....in other words we sin....
Christ is the healer of sin, which plauges mankind...
First we must be pentitent (turn away from our sin, once we recognize it)
Then we ask the healer (Christ God) to forgive (repair the damage)
It does no good to ask the healer to repair our body and spirit if we continue the sinning.
Forgive me....
Be penitent and keep trying, God forgives everything
To sin is to miss the mark, as if you were aiming at a target.
All of us fall short of the target....in other words we sin....
Christ is the healer of sin, which plauges mankind...
First we must be pentitent (turn away from our sin, once we recognize it)
Then we ask the healer (Christ God) to forgive (repair the damage)
It does no good to ask the healer to repair our body and spirit if we continue the sinning.
Forgive me....
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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I believe the blaspeming the Spirit is similar to greiving the Spirit, or continued willful sin. As orthodoxusa said, if we don't accept forgiveness, we are in trouble.
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I was tought that blasphemy against the Spirit is to attribute the acts of God to man or Satan. It is not something you accidently slip and do, but a willful decision to reject God's authority and attribute his miracles to an unworthy source.
Matthew 9
"2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth."
The scribes believed Jesus was just a man, and in saying "thy sins be forgiven thee" was attributing an act only God can accomplish to himself. If Jesus had been just a man, He would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Since He is God, He was attributing an attribute of God to God, which is obviously fine.
John 10
29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Again, attributing the works of God, or claiming to be God, by someone they thought was a mere human.
Matthew 9
"2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth."
The scribes believed Jesus was just a man, and in saying "thy sins be forgiven thee" was attributing an act only God can accomplish to himself. If Jesus had been just a man, He would have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Since He is God, He was attributing an attribute of God to God, which is obviously fine.
John 10
29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one." 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Again, attributing the works of God, or claiming to be God, by someone they thought was a mere human.
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PRMan
Part-Time Bible Scholar
Mark 3
20Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[3] ! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."
23So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
Anyone who attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to an evil spirit or a devil is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So, if someone says, "Speaking in tongues is of the devil,"--and I have heard this often--they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit if that gift is from him.
Blasphemy of Jesus is NOT the unpardonable sin:
Luke 12
10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
20Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[3] ! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."
23So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
Anyone who attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to an evil spirit or a devil is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So, if someone says, "Speaking in tongues is of the devil,"--and I have heard this often--they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit if that gift is from him.
Blasphemy of Jesus is NOT the unpardonable sin:
Luke 12
10And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
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uhmm, no disrespect to anyone else but...
the blasphemy of the holyspirit is not simply a physical thing you can do.
speaking or saying something agaisnt the holyspirit is only the OCCASION of blaspheming him, its not what it is.
when Jesus spoke of this sin, he was talking with the pharisees and they had just heard of the miracle working power of God and because they hated him so much and so rejected Jesus, they did the only thing they knew to do and that was to say, WELL HES JUST USING THE POWER OF THE DEVIL!
it was the hated and the rejection they had in their hearts that pushed all the love of God away, thats what made them say that, and made God turn away, it wasnt just what they said.
the bible says that THERE IS NOTHING that we can do, to seperate us from his love.
their is no sin or word we can say, that he wont forgive.
all we can do, is REFUSE ALL HIS LOVE, like the pharisees did.
thats blaspheming God, and thats what he CANT forgive, because they wouldnt let him.
the blasphemy of the holyspirit is not simply a physical thing you can do.
speaking or saying something agaisnt the holyspirit is only the OCCASION of blaspheming him, its not what it is.
when Jesus spoke of this sin, he was talking with the pharisees and they had just heard of the miracle working power of God and because they hated him so much and so rejected Jesus, they did the only thing they knew to do and that was to say, WELL HES JUST USING THE POWER OF THE DEVIL!
it was the hated and the rejection they had in their hearts that pushed all the love of God away, thats what made them say that, and made God turn away, it wasnt just what they said.
the bible says that THERE IS NOTHING that we can do, to seperate us from his love.
their is no sin or word we can say, that he wont forgive.
all we can do, is REFUSE ALL HIS LOVE, like the pharisees did.
thats blaspheming God, and thats what he CANT forgive, because they wouldnt let him.
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
Well-Known Member
Well, the occasion is the sin. The occasion is the point at which someone sins. The pharisees did something very specific, which Jesus called blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Yes-attributing the acts of the Holy Spirit to the enemy.
However, satan has tried with every believer to convince them they have committed this sin in an attempt to destroy their faith. I don't know of a person who has been a Christian for any length of time who hasn't thought this.
If you fear it, you won't commit it. God is merciful and faithful. He doesn't let His people fall off the map. If someone wants to seek Him, their heart isn't in such a condition to commit this sin. God will never work in them and against them at the same time.
However, satan has tried with every believer to convince them they have committed this sin in an attempt to destroy their faith. I don't know of a person who has been a Christian for any length of time who hasn't thought this.
If you fear it, you won't commit it. God is merciful and faithful. He doesn't let His people fall off the map. If someone wants to seek Him, their heart isn't in such a condition to commit this sin. God will never work in them and against them at the same time.
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but the thing is, if you read on in the same context of scripture, Jesus explains why those "words" meant so much. and it is becuase "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks" thats the only reason the words mean anything. ITS NOT THE WORDS, ITS HEART CONDITION.
it still comes down to a condition of the heart that God judges, not the words.
and like paul said in romans, there is nothing that can seperate us from the Love of God, and like paul told timothy, Jesus died as ransom for ALL people, that included the pharisees who did what they did.
Jesus' forgivness through his death spans all things, and covers all sins.
there can be no one action that he simply will not forgive.
FOR WHERE SIN DOES ABOUND, GRACE DOES MUCH MORE ABOUND!
yes there is grace for those people who have blasphemed the spirit.
God desires to forgive them.
the only reason blasphemy of the spirit cant be forgiven, is becuase it comes down to a condition of the heart that will not be forgiven.
its not the words that make blasphemy of the spirit what it is, or what God is really looking at.
if anyone cares to know,
the reason blaspheming the Son, and blaspheming the Spirit are diffrent, one can be forgiven and one cant, is this.
it didnt take as much enmity with God to refuse the Son as it did to refuse the Spirit. ILL PROVE THAT IN A MINUTE.
Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself, knew nothing of himself, and all he knew and did came from his father.
Jesus did not have the ability to prove who he was on hand, becuase Jesus did not walk in a power of his own, it came through the anointing of the Spirit, not himself. he gave up his own power, he became POOR so we could be made rich, he took flesh, and the bible says had to wait till a DUE time to be testified of.
the pharisees could have refused the Son by himself without being completely hateful to God becuase Jesus did not have the power to prove who he was by himself.
but when Jesus began to walk in the power of the SPIRIT it became abundantly obvious who Jesus was, that he was most certainly God, and to refuse him then, was not just to refuse Jesus but the Spirit also, and thats when they blasphemed the Spirit, and them doing this, was the proof of the condition of their heart that would never allow God a place, not even to forgive them, and thats why they couldnt be forgiven.
To blaspheme the Son only took being skeptical, and it could be excused.
but to blaspheme the Spirit, (becuase of the demonstration and proof by power) took no less than a heart that was completely bent on refusing God at any and all costs.
and becuase Jesus knew this, he made the statement that to blaspheme him could be forgiven, but to blaspheme the spirit could not.
it still comes down to a condition of the heart that God judges, not the words.
and like paul said in romans, there is nothing that can seperate us from the Love of God, and like paul told timothy, Jesus died as ransom for ALL people, that included the pharisees who did what they did.
Jesus' forgivness through his death spans all things, and covers all sins.
there can be no one action that he simply will not forgive.
FOR WHERE SIN DOES ABOUND, GRACE DOES MUCH MORE ABOUND!
yes there is grace for those people who have blasphemed the spirit.
God desires to forgive them.
the only reason blasphemy of the spirit cant be forgiven, is becuase it comes down to a condition of the heart that will not be forgiven.
its not the words that make blasphemy of the spirit what it is, or what God is really looking at.
if anyone cares to know,
the reason blaspheming the Son, and blaspheming the Spirit are diffrent, one can be forgiven and one cant, is this.
it didnt take as much enmity with God to refuse the Son as it did to refuse the Spirit. ILL PROVE THAT IN A MINUTE.
Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself, knew nothing of himself, and all he knew and did came from his father.
Jesus did not have the ability to prove who he was on hand, becuase Jesus did not walk in a power of his own, it came through the anointing of the Spirit, not himself. he gave up his own power, he became POOR so we could be made rich, he took flesh, and the bible says had to wait till a DUE time to be testified of.
the pharisees could have refused the Son by himself without being completely hateful to God becuase Jesus did not have the power to prove who he was by himself.
but when Jesus began to walk in the power of the SPIRIT it became abundantly obvious who Jesus was, that he was most certainly God, and to refuse him then, was not just to refuse Jesus but the Spirit also, and thats when they blasphemed the Spirit, and them doing this, was the proof of the condition of their heart that would never allow God a place, not even to forgive them, and thats why they couldnt be forgiven.
To blaspheme the Son only took being skeptical, and it could be excused.
but to blaspheme the Spirit, (becuase of the demonstration and proof by power) took no less than a heart that was completely bent on refusing God at any and all costs.
and becuase Jesus knew this, he made the statement that to blaspheme him could be forgiven, but to blaspheme the spirit could not.
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TheOriginalWhitehorse
Well-Known Member
Hi, Endure. It's a pleasure to discuss this with you further, and you do make good points about the heart condition. It is the key to our outward expression of love to God, as it is written:
Proverbs 4:23
4:23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
You are also correct that for God's people, nothing can separate us from the love of Christ [Romans 8:35-36].
Here's where the problem comes in about blaspheming the Holy Spirit: When scripture tells us nothing can separate us from the love of God, this is not universal, to all mankind. This applies only to God's people. As it is written:
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
2:13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Emphasis added.
Obviously those who fall away (not those who merely backslide, but those who fall away) are not in this category.
As it is written:
Hebrews 6:4-6
6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So people can fall away, as did Demas, because he failed to take hold of what Christ has taken hold of for us:
1 Timothy 6:12
6:12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
But for those God has chosen, it is as precisely as you say: nothing can separate us from the love of God.
But who belongs to God? THose who keep His commandments, so this did not include the Pharisees, who were a law unto themselves. That is why they fell into the unpardonable sin. The book of I John is a good read on how to be assured we belong to God, and is a very short book. Jesus summarized it this way:
John 15:10
15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Here is the issue specific to blasphemy:
Matthew 12:31
12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
But God always responds to our seeking Him, and will never let us fall off the map if we are truly His, or will be in the future. The key is not to let satan falsely accuse anyone of falling into this sin to destroy their faith.
Hebrews 11:6
11:6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Proverbs 4:23
4:23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
You are also correct that for God's people, nothing can separate us from the love of Christ [Romans 8:35-36].
Here's where the problem comes in about blaspheming the Holy Spirit: When scripture tells us nothing can separate us from the love of God, this is not universal, to all mankind. This applies only to God's people. As it is written:
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
2:13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2:14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Emphasis added.
Obviously those who fall away (not those who merely backslide, but those who fall away) are not in this category.
As it is written:
Hebrews 6:4-6
6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So people can fall away, as did Demas, because he failed to take hold of what Christ has taken hold of for us:
1 Timothy 6:12
6:12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
But for those God has chosen, it is as precisely as you say: nothing can separate us from the love of God.
But who belongs to God? THose who keep His commandments, so this did not include the Pharisees, who were a law unto themselves. That is why they fell into the unpardonable sin. The book of I John is a good read on how to be assured we belong to God, and is a very short book. Jesus summarized it this way:
John 15:10
15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Here is the issue specific to blasphemy:
Matthew 12:31
12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
But God always responds to our seeking Him, and will never let us fall off the map if we are truly His, or will be in the future. The key is not to let satan falsely accuse anyone of falling into this sin to destroy their faith.
Hebrews 11:6
11:6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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hello again,
i want to say first of all, that i am not a believer in eternal security and whatever divisions between our beliefes that may cause are present.
when the bible says there is nothing that can seperate us from the love of God, i do not believe he was speaking specificly to the context of the security of our salvation. i dont believe he was saying you cant be seperated from your salvation when the bible says you cant be seperated from his love. so, i wasnt using that scripture the way i think you thought i was using it.
i just using it to say it doesnt matter what you do, God still loves you and he will always forgive anything you do if youll let him, becuase of that love.
i wasnt using it to say blaspheming the spirit doesnt apply becuase we are eternally secure in Christ.
do you see what im saying?
i think this great unfailing love for God that keeps blapsheming the spirit from being something of mere words and actions, applies to all men everywhere, brn again or not, in Christ or not.
because he loved them the same. he died as a ransom for all men, all men alike, saved or unsaved.
im sorry if this seems scratchy by my bringing up diffrent subjects, but if you are a believer that the word "all" actually applies to the entirety of a certain context of people, and not really ALL people on the earth, we again disagree and the walls this bring are present. i also do not believe in many peoples veiw of "predestination", i dont believe God chooses which people will be saved and which people will be not saved, leaving some with no alternative but hell. i dont know if you believe these things or not, but since i dont really know you well, it seemed to me that you may believe these things becuase of some of the things you said in your post.
again to sum up what i was saying from the begginning.
the unforgivable sin is not a mere word or action you complete that alienates us from Gods forgivness, becuase there is nothing that can cause his love and desire to forgive us to be removed from us, so aparently it is an issue of the heart that causes us to refuse to allow him anyplace of forgivness in our lives.
becuase that is the only thing that could truely make us unforgivable, and the only thing truely fitting with the situation this subject acrose out of.
i want to say first of all, that i am not a believer in eternal security and whatever divisions between our beliefes that may cause are present.
when the bible says there is nothing that can seperate us from the love of God, i do not believe he was speaking specificly to the context of the security of our salvation. i dont believe he was saying you cant be seperated from your salvation when the bible says you cant be seperated from his love. so, i wasnt using that scripture the way i think you thought i was using it.
i just using it to say it doesnt matter what you do, God still loves you and he will always forgive anything you do if youll let him, becuase of that love.
i wasnt using it to say blaspheming the spirit doesnt apply becuase we are eternally secure in Christ.
do you see what im saying?
i think this great unfailing love for God that keeps blapsheming the spirit from being something of mere words and actions, applies to all men everywhere, brn again or not, in Christ or not.
because he loved them the same. he died as a ransom for all men, all men alike, saved or unsaved.
im sorry if this seems scratchy by my bringing up diffrent subjects, but if you are a believer that the word "all" actually applies to the entirety of a certain context of people, and not really ALL people on the earth, we again disagree and the walls this bring are present. i also do not believe in many peoples veiw of "predestination", i dont believe God chooses which people will be saved and which people will be not saved, leaving some with no alternative but hell. i dont know if you believe these things or not, but since i dont really know you well, it seemed to me that you may believe these things becuase of some of the things you said in your post.
again to sum up what i was saying from the begginning.
the unforgivable sin is not a mere word or action you complete that alienates us from Gods forgivness, becuase there is nothing that can cause his love and desire to forgive us to be removed from us, so aparently it is an issue of the heart that causes us to refuse to allow him anyplace of forgivness in our lives.
becuase that is the only thing that could truely make us unforgivable, and the only thing truely fitting with the situation this subject acrose out of.
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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Something like that I guess. Since we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are told not to greive it.Abiel said:
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