Blaming God

[sentipente]

I agree. My comparison to Sodom was not to it's destruction.

JM

Then I don't understand your point. A problem I find with most contributions on these issues is the underlying denial of the fact that this God we speak about is the OWNER of the entire universe. There seems to be this sub-text that He discovered the human race. He did not discover us. He created us. God consciousness or God singularity, call it what you will, is the default condition.

 

[JonMiller]

There is definitely something wrong with the human race though.

JM

 

[sentipente]

There is definitely something wrong with the human race though.

JM

But that does not mean this is the default condition. A human being can be developmentally flawed and we know that from comparing the individual to other individuals. When humans transitioned from unconscious to conscious evolution the possibilities were endless. We seem to have taken the wrong off-ramp.

 

[JonMiller]

I think that even with a technological singularity, we could be on on the wrong route.

JM

 

[Avonia]

But that does not mean this is the default condition. A human being can be developmentally flawed and we know that from comparing the individual to other individuals. When humans transitioned from unconscious to conscious evolution the possibilities were endless. We seem to have taken the wrong off-ramp.

Concluding that we can do nothing to improve the condition of the human race by pointing out it is flawed strikes me as rather bizarre. Making something not quite as bad is the same demonstration of planetary evolution as making something better that's already good. Both perceptions start by comparison—so they are relative, as you pointed out.

Teaching people they start out flawed, are helpless to do anything about it, and then holding a carrot of eventual rescue out in front of them that distracts them from working in the moment seems to not be working well.

 

[JonMiller]

I just note that nothing we have done has improved the condition of the human race.

JM

 

[sentipente]

Concluding that we can do nothing to improve the condition of the human race by pointing out it is flawed strikes me as rather bizarre. Making something not quite as bad is the same demonstration of planetary evolution as making something better that's already good. Both perceptions start by comparison—so they are relative, as you pointed out.

Teaching people they start out flawed, are helpless to do anything about it, and then holding a carrot of eventual rescue out in front of them that distracts them from working in the moment seems to not be working well.

There is a difference between the condition of humans as individuals and their condition as a species. The species itself is an individual. This is why I used the example of an individual. When an individual is properly developed then the organs function as they are designed to function. If the human race had developed properly then humans would also function as they are designed to function.

 

[sentipente]

I just note that nothing we have done has improved the condition of the human race.

JM

That is merely a reflection on the methods used. Nothing a baker does everyday improves the condition of the cars in the garage.

 

[Avonia]

I've always wondered if the average age of humans has anything to do with how people relate to something like a second coming story.

Sustaining belief of a return for 70 or so years is pretty doable – even if generation after generation sees no return. There is a quick cycle of death and rebirth. Getting distracted by school, career, and family may make it even more doable.

But what if people lived 500 years? Can you imagine working for the return, using the same mindset, century after century? Would the meaning and story shift?

Pondering. . .

 

[JonMiller]

I sometimes play with the idea that the second coming is personal.. at our death. Which is perhaps closer to what you guys are suggesting then the traditional second coming.

I just don't see any increase in Christ consciousness in the human race.

Avonia, a 500 year length of life for humanity would probably be caused by a tech singularity. While I think that one is possible, and if one happens that Christianity might still be relevant, I agree that Christianity would have to have a different form. Just as if we were in communication with aliens or started inhabitting other worlds, or made true AI.

JM

 

[sentipente]

I just don't see any increase in Christ consciousness in the human race.

If we were not influenced by Christian culture we would probably use a different term. Are you willing to admit that at some time in the past humans experienced whatever it is that we are calling Christ consciousness?

 

[JonMiller]

Not in recorded history?

JM

 

[sentipente]

Not in recorded history?

JM

Meaning?

 

[JonMiller]

The human race hasn't experienced anything I could call Christ Consciousness as desribed in history books.

JM

 

[sentipente]

The human race hasn't experienced anything I could call Christ Consciousness as desribed in history books.

JM

Then tap into pre-history. Do you think humans have ever experienced what we are calling Christ Consciousness?

 

[JonMiller]

That is a different question.

I beleive that they might have, but I don't have any evidence.

JM

 

[sentipente]

How is that a different question?

 

[JonMiller]

There are beleifs, and then there are theories based upon evidence. I like to keep the two seperate, as it adds clarity in discussions and my own positions.

JM

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

Then tap into pre-history. Do you think humans have ever experienced what we are calling Christ Consciousness?

What you call "Christ-consciousness" is still poorly defined. Which teachings of Christ? The ones found in the Gospels, or maybe like the Jesus Seminar, you want to decide which ones are authentic or not? What about the teachings of Jesus about his parousia?

Is Christ-consciousness a personal-individual experience, or is it an event that happens to corporate humanity in some point of history?

How can one identify a vague concept in history, let alone pre-history. Furthermore, how can one tap into pre-history? Is there a certain methodolgy that we could follow?

 

[JonMiller]

That too Ben.

JM