• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Black Holes

WV25115

Regular Member
Nov 12, 2005
160
19
✟383.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Can someone explain, in nice simple language, the concept of black holes? I've been trying to figure this out, but can't grasp what exactly they are, what happens to time and space and matter in one, etc. I don't have a scientific mind, so please keep that in mind as well.

Thank you!
 

The thinker

Senior Member
Jan 10, 2005
832
42
36
I live in Oman but was born in england
✟23,723.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
hmm... well I am by no means a scientist but I believe they form when a super massive star runs out of "fuel" and collaps's in on itself crushing all of the matter in the star down to one small point.

The universe is basicly like a big sheet of fabric and the black hole is like a grain of sand with the weight of a car sitting in the middle. This pulls down the fabric making a big indent which is so steep that nothing, not even light can escape it.

But that is just what I have heard from the discovery channel and various books but I dont know how accurate I am :)
 
Upvote 0

Illuminatus

Draft the chickenhawks
Nov 28, 2004
4,508
364
✟29,062.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
walking with christ said:
hmm... well I am by no means a scientist but I believe they form when a super massive star runs out of "fuel" and collaps's in on itself crushing all of the matter in the star down to one small point.

The universe is basicly like a big sheet of fabric and the black hole is like a grain of sand with the weight of a car sitting in the middle. This pulls down the fabric making a big indent which is so steep that nothing, not even light can escape it.

But that is just what I have heard from the discovery channel and various books but I dont know how accurate I am :)

A pretty good, (if simple), analogy.
 
Upvote 0

Heritage

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2004
794
50
39
✟1,193.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
To build off of what walking with christ said, a few more interestin facts about black holes.

They swallow everything, and can only be seen when they are swallowing gas.

Planets around a black whole spin faster then those farther away, suggesting that they do have a pull.

A lot of galaxies have a black whole in the center of them, even our own Milky Way has one. Some of these black wholes can be as much as SEVERAL BILLION TIMES the mass of our sun.

And in a recent study by Reinhard Genvel of the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics, Genzel and his time where able to find that it's possible for black wholes to spin. This research was on the black whole Sagittarius A, which is in the center of the Milky Way, and they claim it spun once every 10 minutes.

A nice little tid bit about Sagittarius A is that it is 3.6 MILLION TIMES as heavy as our sun.

Hopefully that quenches a little more of your thirst for knowledge. :sleep:
 
Upvote 0

chilehed

Veteran
Jul 31, 2003
4,736
1,400
64
Michigan
✟253,141.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
WV25115 said:
Can someone explain, in nice simple language, the concept of black holes? I've been trying to figure this out, but can't grasp what exactly they are, what happens to time and space and matter in one, etc. I don't have a scientific mind, so please keep that in mind as well.

Thank you!
Lots of good information so far.

Imagine a small ball of something, it could be anything but imagine a round rock floating around in space. Now imagine it grows really massive, like the size of a planet, and you can imagine that the part at the center would be squeezed really hard by the weight of all the stuff around it, because now it's so big that it's own gravity presses down on itself. If it was the size of the earth, then to get a rocket off of it into space you'd have to get the rocket going about 7 miles per second before it could get away from the pull of the rock's gravity.

If the rock gets massive enough, the part at the middle can be squeezed so hard that all of the protons and electrons in the atoms get squeezed together to form neutrons. The rock is now physically much smaller than it was before because a lot of the space that was inside each atom got squeezed away. This is very heavy stuff, a teaspoon of it would weigh millions of tons, and to get off of the surface your rocket would have to be going thousands of miles per second for it to escape the gravity.

If the rock gets larger still, the gravity can get so strong that the rock is squeezed into a single point, so small that it can't even be measured, and anything that gets too close to it can't get away because even light doesn't go fast enough escape the gravity. No light comes out of it, and any light that gets too close can't get away - so it looks black.

What happens to space and time? That's some really amazing stuff: space bends and time slows down (depending on who's got the clock and where they are). It's hard to explain without math.

Look for a book entitled "Mr Thompkins in Paperback", by George Gamow. He was one of the great physicists of the 20th Century, and he wrote a book about a guy who visits relativityland where the speed of light is 10 miles per hour. There's a bit of math and he donesn't really talk about black holes, but you can skip the math and since high gravity and high speeds do a lot of similar things you can still get an idea of what happens.
 
Upvote 0

sld

Newbie
Dec 29, 2004
8
0
✟118.00
Faith
Atheist
WV25115 said:
Can someone explain, in nice simple language, the concept of black holes?

The simple answer is: No. Black holes cannot really be explained in very nice simple language. They require a lot of understanding of basic physical concepts. I would suggest that you start with a course in college level physics, and then proceed to a course in modern physics and of course astronomy.

I've been trying to figure this out, but can't grasp what exactly they are, what happens to time and space and matter in one, etc. I don't have a scientific mind, so please keep that in mind as well.

Thank you!

OK. I'll try to add somethings here. Black holes are theoretical constructs of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. We are pretty sure such things exist, but it still is a matter of some debate. Einstein in 1916 first explained his General Theory of Relativity (which basically expanded on the ideas he had presented in his special theory of relativity in 1905). In that paper he explained how light could be bent by gravity. How so? Because gravity bends space and time itself. This has been proven many times, but the first time was in 1919 when observations of an eclipse showed that indeed the light from stars passing close to the sun was indeed bent by the exact amount Einstein had predicted. The observation won Einstein instant acclaim and notoriety around the world. It probably prompted the Nobel Prize committee to award him the Nobel prize in physics, although he got that technically for his explanation of the photoelectric effect and not relativity.

In any event, it is a simple matter to show then that if gravity can bend light, and the stronger the gravitational field the more light is bent, then obviously if the field is strong enough then the light will get bent back on itself. Since according to Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity nothing can go faster than the speed of light, then nothing would be able to escape once it got back into a black hole. All that is required is that a mass be compressed small enough so that its gravitational field would be so concentrated in such a small region so as not to allow light to pass through.

So what happens? Nobody really knows. There be dragons in the center of a black hole and scientists are still really trying to figure it out. It will depend on whether String Theory turns out to be a correct model and a few other things.

But there is so much more. Black holes aren't really "black" - sure they don't allow any escape by photons, but they do in fact give off quite important signatures that we can detect - mostly due to infalling matter. Most of our candidates for black holes, like Cygnus X-1 (an x-ray source in the constellation of cygnus) are binary systems, where one part is a star which is being cannibalized by a dense companion. X-ray emissions from infalling matter indicate that such systems could be potentially black holes - depending on the way in which the x-rays "flicker." Also, the center of most galaxies are considered black hole candidates.

But if you were to look at a black hole you would see something odd. Take a companion and throw him into the black hole - what would you see as he waves good bye? Well, first he would appear to slow down and turn redder. In fact you would never really seem him fall into the black hole. He would just appear to get slower and slower and redder and redder. Confusing? I told you it wasn't possible to explain it simply. But it makes sense if you think about it carefully. The light coming from your friend is being stretched out by the gravitational field of the black hole. Eventually the black hole radius (actually the radius of what is called the "Event Horizon" (or point of no return)), will grow slightly enough to swallow your friend.

But of course there's still lots more. For example, Black holes actually will evaporate over time. This is due to quantum effects occuring as light and matter are sucked into a black hole. This is also one of the great achievements of Stephen Hawking.

OK, enough for now. Go read the following books: "A Brief History of Time" and "The Universe in a Nutshell" both by Stephen Hawking. They are great introductory books that will get you started on a fantastic journey of discovery and learning which hopefully you will never complete!

SLD
 
Upvote 0

Quantos

Sock ? What Sock
Mar 6, 2005
7,619
5,825
Earth for now
✟33,990.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
sld said:
...snip...

OK, enough for now. Go read the following books: "A Brief History of Time" and "The Universe in a Nutshell" both by Stephen Hawking. They are great introductory books that will get you started on a fantastic journey of discovery and learning which hopefully you will never complete!

SLD

Or listen to them :)

got to love audible.com
 
Upvote 0