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john crawford

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Magnus Vile said:
please, don't try arguing that evolution = racism and expect anyone to take your argument as anything other than a factless rant.
All I have ever seen you post, in the way of argument is, "I don't like evolution = Evolution is false."

How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years that Asian and African people were originally descended from hairy chimp-like African apes? It's a repulsive idea!
 
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john crawford

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troodon said:
In response to the OP I will quote a song that I enjoy, mostly because that's all it deserves:

"Can't avoid that
evolution is fact.
We're all from the same Lucy
despite differences you see."

That is all

Quaint Nordic lyrics espousing the supremacy of Anglo-Saxon cultural mythology.
 
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john crawford

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QUOTE=Lucretius: "Wrong, if you weren't here to observe it; Evolution would still have occured."

That's an expression of religious faith, not science.

"Without human beings however, there is no racism."

Without human beings, there is no evolution either.

"Just because one animal is stronger than another does not imply racism."

Calling Asian and African people separate species of animals does though.

"Racism is political and often emotional, but it doesn't exist in nature."

Neither do different human species exist in natural history.
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
What would you call the Anglo-Saxon concept of African people being mutant descendents of hairy African apes? Evolution or social darwinism?

In modern evolutionary theory there is no Anglo-Saxon concept of only African people being descended from a hairy ape predecessor. There is an internationally accepted theory of evolution that all modern humans descended from said hairy ape predecessor.


You are dredging up outdated 19th century Euro-centric anthropology to make a misleading and irrelevant point.
 
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Manic Depressive Mouse

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I think you'll find it was the religous types that founded slavery...

[Sarcasm]
So therefore religion is racist!!
[/Sarcasm]

There is nothing racist about the ToE.

This thread is the typical YEC rubbish that makes them seem all the more derranged compared to the rest of us

So good work YECs, Theistic Evolutionists like myself don't even have to bother telling people YECism is flawed with threads like this around!
 
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Nathan Poe

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The Seeker said:

This is Chewbacca, a wookie, from Kashyk, but Chewbacca lives on Endor. Ladies and gentlemen of the so-called jury, this does not make sense. If Chewbacca is a wookie, then evolution is racist.

If you're going to apologize to anyone, apologize to the late Johnny Cochran... who is only slightly less dead than the logic of the thread!
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
Anglo-Saxon evolutionists use the fossil record to substantiate the Nordic myth that the original African people were mutant descendents of hairy African apes.

Nope. Anglo-Saxon and Muslim and Japanese and all other paleontologists say the evidence points to all the human species as descendants of an African proto-hominine population. Africans cannot claim to be the only people who evolved into H. sapiens. Nor can they claim victimization as the only people "left behind" as H. sapiens developed.
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
Since the human fossil record shows no evidence of hairy African apes ever mutating into African people, the Nordic myth that they did is further evidence of Anglo-Saxon social darwinism and not human evolution.

Right. The fossil record does not show evidence of apes mutating into African people. It shows evidence of apes mutating into human people.
 
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gluadys

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john crawford said:
How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years that Asian and African people were originally descended from hairy chimp-like African apes? It's a repulsive idea!

The theory does not say that Asian and African people descended from chimp-like apes. It says that Asian and African and American and Australian and European and South Pacific etc. people all descended from a chimp-like African ape.

That you find this concept repulsive doesn't mean it is not true.
 
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john crawford

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gluadys said:
Incorrect. Large brains preceded the migration from Africa.

The big question for Anglo-Saxon, Asian and black evolutionists, though, is whether these large-brained neo-neanderthal African people originally immigrated into Africa by way of the Middle East or were they just big-brained mutant desendents of hairy African chimp-like apes?
 
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Deamiter

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It's going to take me some time to figure out what to do with this thread.

Evolution does not lead to racism. It does not even IMPLY racism. At the same time, anything can be twisted to be racist. For example, a hundred years ago, both the Bible AND the theory of evolution were used to support segregation.

Does that make the Bible inherantly racist? No. Does that make the theory of evolution racist? No.

Theories based on evolution in NO way make judgements on whether one group of humans is 'better' than another. It sometimes is used to classify some organisms as better adapted to their environment than others, but there are so many environments on Earth it can hardly be used as a measure of their worth as humans!

I'm leaning toward leaving this thread closed. It's turned quite ridiculous when every evolutionist is labeled racist!
 
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Deamiter

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john crawford said:
Why do Anglo-Saxon evolutionists want to make everyone African or "black" if "we're all the same" in the first place and only Africans evolved from hairy apes in Africa?

As an Anglo-Saxon evolutionist (and I really must apologize, since it seems that the color of MY skin makes me evil in your eyes) I have never had the slightest intentions of making everyone African! Neither have my Ango-Saxon evolutionist friends, my African-American evolutionist friends, nor my Asian-American evolutionist friends. I also have a few phillipino friends (uncommon in my university because of its location) but they're not in sciences so I've never discussed evolution with them.

The theories of common descent do NOT say that ONLY Africans evolved from apes in Africa. It usually holds that African ancestors evolved from apes, and then spread across the world and over time, small changes like skin color evolved into people groups in other areas.

We are all descendants of the same African apes by this theory.

I think I'll be re-opening the thread, but I want to make it clear that I'll be watching it rather closely. Further, there are some distinct misunderstandings about evolution -- one being that only colored people evolved from apes. I think further study into what the theories based on evolution really say will make it clear to all that evolution is not inherently racist any more than Christianity is inherently racist.
 
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tryptophan

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tryptophan said:
Is anybody going to refute the points the article makes?

Fine, I'll just do it myself. But I'm not the best person.

Let's see.


He wasn't referring to human races. He was referring to races as in varieties. They're taking that one word and running with it further than it was meant. Furthermore, Origins barely mentions humans at all.


He's not saying that this is a good thing. As a matter of fact, Westerners had been mistreating other races for quite a while. Is it really such a stretch to see them wiping other races out? We're still worried about some apes becoming extinct.

I'm not exactly sure about the other statements, although Darwin did not see Africans as another species.

We are now (hopefully) in the post-racist period in America. Thinking people cringe at Darwin's hatred for the African peoples. Thinking people view it as a disgrace that his racist theories are still being taught in the public schools.


Racism is hardly dead in America. But Darwin did not hate Africans. Take this for example:



http://home.att.net/~troybritain/articles/darwin_on_race.htm

Wow. He really hates them doesn't he?



This quote doesn't exactly paint him in a great light. Still, it shows some compassion to them.

Exactly where is this guy's supposed evidence that Darwin was a huge racist?

 
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corvus_corax

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"Anglo-Saxon evolutionists use the fossil record to substantiate..."
"Why do Anglo-Saxon evolutionists want to make everyone African ..."
"Social, academic and intellectual Darwinism based on scientific naturalism is strictly an Anglo-Saxon development."
"...the Nordic myth that they did is further evidence of Anglo-Saxon social darwinism and not human evolution."
"How can anyone like the so-called scientific theory espoused by Anglo-Saxon evolutionists for the past 100 years..."
"The big question for Anglo-Saxon, Asian and black evolutionists, though,..."

It seems to me that when you are speaking of "Anglo-Saxon evolutionists, you are referring specifically to racists who attempt to justify their racism using evolutionary theory and natural selection.
In that case I agree with you, racism shouldnt be tolerated.
HOWEVER, as has been pointed out to you SEVERAL times, evolutionary theory ITSELF is not racist. Just because some people attempt (wrongly) to justify their bigotry with a scientific theory does NOT invalidate the theory itself.
If we want to throw out evolutionary theory due to the racism of some people, then let us move on and throw out the New Testament, due to the fact that many church fathers used it to justify their anti-semitism.

But THAT would just be silly wouldnt it?
 
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corvus_corax

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tryptophan said:
Is anybody going to refute the points the article makes?
What points?
The points that Darwin and his contemporaries may have been racist and may have used evolutionary theory to justify their racism?
The entire point, as has been demonstrated time and again in this thread, is moot.
The racism of people has no bearing on evolutionary theory and natural selection.
This "Darwin was a racist" idea has been brought up before on these forums, and was just as thoroughly trounced as it has been this time.
 
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