Bitterness

[WAB]

I agree with what you're saying about the gall effect, but if you would, address Wisdom's Child's excellent point re: righteous indignation?
Give us an equaly good overview of the other side of the coin!

Don't know what happened to the first answer...disappeared.

Anyway, when I read post you referred to, will answer.

Shalom... WAB

 

[WAB]

I agree with what you're saying about the gall effect, but if you would, address Wisdom's Child's excellent point re: righteous indignation?
Give us an equaly good overview of the other side of the coin!

This is going to be a difficult response. The primary reason for that difficulty is that "Wisdom's Child" is obviously a Brother in the Lord, and is involved with ministry that comes much closer to the ministry of the early church than that of the majority of "Organized Religion" today.

Having said that, and harking back to "the gall effect", will address a couple of issues.

After pointing out that there are lots of "Hireling" pastors in operation, lots of money "invested" in "luxurious buildings" etc., etc.... WC then admits that the result in his own thinking is... "Bitterness, yea maybe a little." Also, "Frustration, bitterness, and yes, even a little bit of envy and jealousy creep in now and again."

1 Corinthians 5:6b... "...Know ye not that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?"

Of course WC says..."...I prefer to think more along the lines of righteous indignation." (than admitting bitterness is really there).

A definition may be appropriate... "indignation= thumos'; passion (as of breathing hard): fierceness, indignation, wrath." Righteous indignation is the prerogative of God.

WC says: "I wonder how the church got so far off track." Well, the "church" is far down the road of apostasy, as foretold in many places in Scripture.

A few verses from Matthew 24... vs. 4..."...Jesus answered and said to them.'See to it that no one misleads you.'"

vs. 11... "'Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.'"

vs.24... "'For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead (deceive) if possible, even the elect.'"

vs. 25... "'Behold, I have told you in advance.'" (one of these days am going to write an article titled "Advance Warning").

To back up just a bit... Matthew 7:21-23... "'Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'"

Now 2 Timothy 4:3,4.... "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." NOW!

We should not be surprised at the rampant apostasy in the "church" in these days. As our Lord said in Luke 18:8b... "'...However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?'"

And of course all this is why WC's last observation is so relevant... "That I think is why the home church movement is growing like it is."

Shalom... and... Maranatha! WAB

Note: Scriptures from the KJV and the NASB, some emphasis added.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

And it's only gonna get worse, WAB ... John 16:1-4, Revelation 13:11-18 ...

 

[WAB]

And it's only gonna get worse, WAB ... John 16:1-4, Revelation 13:11-18 ...

Yes Moriah, and that is why Believers had better know the Word.

This is not to do a one-up thing on your post, but to say thank you, and to point out that the quote of Luke 18:8b is not speaking of generic "faith", but the faith.

As Wuest's Expanded Translation has it... "Yet, the Son of Man having come, will He find the aforementioned kind of faith on the earth?..."

As you no doubt well know, there are lots of different types of "faith" on the earth. Even such a mundane thing as getting into an elevator in a high rise requires faith that you will step out at the right floor.

But the faith is confidence that the One who paid our sin debt on Calvary's Cross is, one of these days, going to receive us unto Himself... that where He is, there we will be also. In the meantime...

Shalom... WAB

 

[TheAJKMan]

WAB, a most interesting read. Kinda makes me wanna take another look at myself to examine what type of faith I have. Thanks for that insightful reply.

TheAJKMan

 

[WAB]

WAB, a most interesting read. Kinda makes me wanna take another look at myself to examine what type of faith I have. Thanks for that insightful reply.

TheAJKMan

Hi there AJKMan... just as an encouragement along those lines...

2 Corinthians 13:5a... "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves...."

If our faith is in the finished work of Calvary's Cross as totally sufficient to gain us entry into the presence of our Almighty God, and if we operate in obedience to His Word, then we have every reason to REJOICE!

Shalom... WAB

 

[TheAJKMan]

2 Corinthians 13:5a... "Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves...."

If our faith is in the finished work of Calvary's Cross as totally sufficient to gain us entry into the presence of our Almighty God, and if we operate in obedience to His Word, then we have every reason to REJOICE!

It is in that light that I'm taking a look at myself WAB. I regularly examine myself and my motives, especially when I get a challenging message. Always tough, but ever so worhtwhile in the long run.

TheAJKMan

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Well I'm not bitter against those who stay in orthodox church... many are my friends! When our church went unchurched together, we have found that far from alienating us from orthodox church, we are free to attend their meetings and services - those who have the stomach and desire for such things! - and instead of having to explain what category of christian I am to others, or have christians make assumptions of me becos I say "I'm Baptist/Methodist/Catholic/HomeChurch..." I don't have to say much at all... especially in that I don't say things like "in our church we sing this song, or do communion this way, or our leader says..." becos my church is at home, at work, in the pub, down the park... we are all leaders...

But I do get frustrated when the christians look at my "unchurched-church" and don't get it, when most "nonchristians" do!!!

But then that is to do with calling, and this becomes circular. Some people feel called to be in orthodox church; like a baptist, angilican, pentecostal, housechurch... and others feel called to become unchurched for th sake of churching it with the non-church, the world!!!

We are all called to be in the world, and we are all called to honour our brothers and sisters... and of course love God... so I don't see how bitterness can really take much hold between us all... we are the global body of christ

But then again, some of us can't stomach meetings, leaders and "ministries", let alone church buildings... and our responses can be offensive, but I'm sure we can all get over ourselves!

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

FLANDIDLY,

WHAT on EARTH is that you are WEARING?? ( ^^ points to your CF character up there ^^ )


And WHAT is he holding???

 

[Rick Otto]

We go with safety-orange in the U.S.
And I think that is a cordless electric drill, probably with a dental attatchment, judging from where he's pointing it.

Good stuff, WAB. Thanks for the attention.
I wonder if we'll hear comment back from W.C.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Eh wot? No more gray & black stripe?
Been too long since I was incarcerated ...

(only kidding -- I've never been incarcerated -- unless you want to count 2 hours in a holding cell tripping on LSD when I was 16.)

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

We go with safety-orange in the U.S.
And I think that is a cordless electric drill, probably with a dental attatchment, judging from where he's pointing it.

Good stuff, WAB. Thanks for the attention.
I wonder if we'll hear comment back from W.C.

Hey Otto our birthdays are on the same day... although you are like my dads age! Yoyo b'day-bro!!!!

It's a radiation suit. The turban is a long story involving David Wilkerson of all people (*******).

 

[WAB]

We go with safety-orange in the U.S.
And I think that is a cordless electric drill, probably with a dental attatchment, judging from where he's pointing it.

Good stuff, WAB. Thanks for the attention.
I wonder if we'll hear comment back from W.C.

I hope we do hear back from W'sC... i certainly meant no insult.

Shalom... WAB

 

[Rick Otto]

Wiz'sKid seems like a decent sort.

Yo Flandidly,
I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm strangely anti-birthday.
I always felt it was a little bogus... a little uncomfortable... sort of like I was aware of a 'dark' underside to it, like Santa & Easter Bunny.
Then I had the opening of the Book of Job put in front of me. It opens with Job making sacrifices to atone for his childrens' feasting, each on "his own day"(birthday).
It is an ancient Chaldean practice based on Astrology & the belief that your birthday is significant of your character & fate.
whatever.
I have no qualms about eating cake & ice cream that has been offered to idols.

Hey Mo!
How long ago was THAT?

 

[kenneth558]

Hey Mo!
How long ago was THAT?

No offense, Otto, but can we let that go undiscussed? It might fall under the things it is a shame to speak about (Eph 5:12).

 

[Rick Otto]

 

[FLANDIDLYANDERS]

Hey, call it what you want, as long as you buy me lego!

 

[kenneth558]

iight, bruh.

I didn't know how you'd take that. You dun good.

 

[brokenbeliever]

i am definately angry and bitter. but i would be in church if i could. the reason im not is because my husband wants us going to a synagogue. so we've been going to synagogue lately. but it's getting real old for me and there is a home group that i'd like to go to, so he agreed to go there with me in a couple of weeks. i hope this works out for us as i REALLY need fellowship with other believers because at this point my faith is very weak and i feel i am on the verge of losing it all together.

 

[WAB]

i am definately angry and bitter. but i would be in church if i could. the reason im not is because my husband wants us going to a synagogue. so we've been going to synagogue lately. but it's getting real old for me and there is a home group that i'd like to go to, so he agreed to go there with me in a couple of weeks. i hope this works out for us as i REALLY need fellowship with other believers because at this point my faith is very weak and i feel i am on the verge of losing it all together.

May I suggest that you shift your faith... from faith in faith, to faith in the One who never changes, never fails, never lessens His love for you in spite of your behaviour.... i.e. Y'shua ONLY.

Shalom... WAB