Birth Control

[2Cosmic2Charlie]

what ever happened to simple faith? so Humane Vitae does not appeal to your intelect, so what? it is still the teaching of the Church that Christ gave to us so that all mankind might be brought to Him

A question for the ages since I have to stop now or I will have a serious slip.

But the answer isn't all that hard:

Why don't people have simple faith on this subject ?

The answer is the problem the Chruch has with the faithful on the subject

imo.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Look-- it is not my position that any of this is easy....or full of joy...or just the la-la land which is often presented by NFP advocates.

The truth is that the whole contraception thing is hard---it's hard as hell---and it probably (I really want to write "definitely") will break you. It will possibly crush your faith for awhile...and will likely make you marriage seriously suck at some point.

But the truth is also that if you keep trying your imperfect best...and keep crying out to God...that you will make it through those dark, dark times.....and you will be transformed through it all. God blesses the bread and then breaks it---and that's how He operates. If you reach those dark times and then throw up your hands---you might never get to a point where things are reconciled and you live in bitterness about contraception for the rest of your days. But if you reach those dark times..and muddle through, accepting the immense hurt and suffering, and trying even if imperfectly to be faithful.....then you will reach a point where where hope and peace dwell within you in regards to it all. “Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope "

 

[colleen]

Monica, hold on to that faith! Whenever I read these threads I'm reminded to thank God that He brought Aaron and I together. It is such a blessing to have a husband that feels the same way about children as I do.

 

[2Cosmic2Charlie]

Look--and it is not position that any of this is easy....or full of joy...or just the la-la land which is often presented by NFP advocates.

The truth is that the whole contraception thing is hard---it's hard as hell---and it probably (I really want to write "definitely") will break you. It will possibly crush your faith for awhile...and will likely make you marriage seriously suck at some point.

But the truth is also that if you keep trying your imperfect best...and keep crying out to God...that you will make it through those dark, dark times.....and you will be transformed through it all. The God blesses the bread and then breaks it---and that's how He operates. If you reach those dark times and then throw up your hands---you might never get to a point where things are reconciled and you live in bitterness about contraception for the rest of your days. But if you reach those dark times..and muddle through, accepting the immense hurt and suffering, and trying even if imperfectly to be faithful.....then you will reach a point where where hope and peace dwell within you in regards to it all. “Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope "

(This isn't really breaking my promise not to post contraceptive stuff is it...?

No, its not)

I aspire to your heavenly reward.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

A question for the ages since I have to stop now or I will have a serious slip.

But the answer isn't all that hard:

Why don't people have simple faith on this subject ?

The answer is the problem the Chruch has with the faithful on the subject

imo.

there are people who have simple faith. The problem is not in the Church. Our job is to obey the Church, not make our own rules.. last time someone did that...we ended up with 30,000+ denominations..

Look-- it is not my position that any of this is easy....or full of joy...or just the la-la land which is often presented by NFP advocates.

The truth is that the whole contraception thing is hard---it's hard as hell---and it probably (I really want to write "definitely") will break you. It will possibly crush your faith for awhile...and will likely make you marriage seriously suck at some point.

But the truth is also that if you keep trying your imperfect best...and keep crying out to God...that you will make it through those dark, dark times.....and you will be transformed through it all. The God blesses the bread and then breaks it---and that's how He operates. If you reach those dark times and then throw up your hands---you might never get to a point where things are reconciled and you live in bitterness about contraception for the rest of your days. But if you reach those dark times..and muddle through, accepting the immense hurt and suffering, and trying even if imperfectly to be faithful.....then you will reach a point where where hope and peace dwell within you in regards to it all. “Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope "

good post!

Monica, hold on to that faith! Whenever I read these threads I'm reminded to thank God that He brought Aaron and I together. It is such a blessing to have a husband that feels the same way about children as I do.

that is wonderful.

God bless

 

[benedictaoo]

Look-- it is not my position that any of this is easy....or full of joy...or just the la-la land which is often presented by NFP advocates.

The truth is that the whole contraception thing is hard---it's hard as hell---and it probably (I really want to write "definitely") will break you. It will possibly crush your faith for awhile...and will likely make you marriage seriously suck at some point.

But the truth is also that if you keep trying your imperfect best...and keep crying out to God...that you will make it through those dark, dark times.....and you will be transformed through it all. The God blesses the bread and then breaks it---and that's how He operates. If you reach those dark times and then throw up your hands---you might never get to a point where things are reconciled and you live in bitterness about contraception for the rest of your days. But if you reach those dark times..and muddle through, accepting the immense hurt and suffering, and trying even if imperfectly to be faithful.....then you will reach a point where where hope and peace dwell within you in regards to it all. “Suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope "

It's hard yes, but it's not that dramatic for everybody- it's really not. It really just depends.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

well here's what I think. I think that sometimes God does tell us to do things that are hard. And maybe, they're supposed to be. Some things need supernatural grace to accept or get through. It takes perseverance though.

What about people called to religious orders or to be martyrs?

 

[2Cosmic2Charlie]

What about people called to religious orders or to be martyrs?

This isn't a post on contraception is it....

Yes, it is)

Sorry,

n/m

 

[benedictaoo]

or to be martyrs

That's gotta suck.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

(This isn't really breaking my promise not to post contraceptive stuff is it...?

No, its not)

I aspire to your heavenly reward.

I love you 2 Cos --give Cos a big kiss for me!

 

[MoNiCa4316]

This isn't a post on contraception is it....

Yes, it is)

Sorry,

n/m

well what I meant is that God sometimes calls people to do difficult things for Him or in obedience to the Church. In this way, we can share in His Passion. And Christ said, if we lose our lives for His sake, we will find them. This need not mean dying, there are many ways people can 'lose their lives' - such as dying to self. There are many forms of martyrdom, and sometimes obedience is one of them. That's spiritual martyrdom. I dont think it's as hard for us as it was for many of the martyrs, who had to leave all their families, friends, possessions, and ultimately lives, for God. If He gave them the grace for this, surely He can give anyone the grace to persevere and be faithful to the Church. when we are faithful to the Church, we're faithful to God also.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

It's hard yes, but it's not that dramatic for everybody- it's really not. It really just depends.

Living the life of Christ is always that dramatic...there will always be our Agonies in our gardens...there will always be a point where crashed and broken we will call out 'My God, My God...why have You forsaken me?" There will always be our deaths .....and there will always be our resurrections.

If there isn't---then you're not being transformed into Christ.

 

[benedictaoo]

Living the life of Christ is always that dramatic...there will always be our Agonies in our gardens...there will always be a point where crashed and broken we will call out 'My God, My God...why have You forsaken me?" There will always be our deaths .....and there will always be our resurrections.

If there isn't---then you're not being transformed into Christ.

Sure but some ppl handle it better then others and don't act all dramatic and wear it on their sleeve.

And there is joy and peace living this life out and if you have none, like you said you didn't-- like Fantine implied we don't have but I know I do, then YOU are not being transformed into Christ either. So there.

 

[benedictaoo]

well what I meant is that God sometimes calls people to do difficult things for Him or in obedience to the Church. In this way, we can share in His Passion. And Christ said, if we lose our lives for His sake, we will find them. This need not mean dying, there are many ways people can 'lose their lives' - such as dying to self. There are many forms of martyrdom, and sometimes obedience is one of them. That's spiritual martyrdom. I dont think it's as hard for us as it was for many of the martyrs, who had to leave all their families, friends, possessions, and ultimately lives, for God. If He gave them the grace for this, surely He can give anyone the grace to persevere and be faithful to the Church. when we are faithful to the Church, we're faithful to God also.

Monica, you are talking to a brick wall with this one.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Sure but some ppl handle it better then others and don't act all dramatic and wear it on their sleeve.

And there is joy and peace living this life out and if you have none, like you said you didn't-- like Fantine implied we don't have but I know I do, then YOU are not being transformed into Christ either. So there.

Yeah.. Jesus ---what a drama queen... He was just so demonstrative with His struggles...

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Sure but some ppl handle it better then others and don't act all dramatic and wear it on their sleeve.

And there is joy and peace living this life out and if you have none, like you said you didn't-- like Fantine implied we don't have but I know I do, then YOU are not being transformed into Christ either. So there.

You do not emanate these qualities in your posts, in really any of your posts. Do you feel them? Or feel isn't really the right word--maybe it'd be better to ask- if you experience them? If so--can you talk to that a bit?

And of course everyone's spiritual journey is not manifest in the same way, with the same struggles, and the same expression....but the journey in its essence is the same..it is Christ's.

 

[benedictaoo]

You do not emanate these qualities in your posts, in really any of your posts. Do you feel them? Or feel isn't really the right word--maybe it'd be better to ask- if you experience them? If so--can you talk to that a bit?

And of course everyone's spiritual journey is not manifest in the same way, with the same struggles, and the same expression....but the journey in its essence is the same..it is Christ's.

You got to be kidding me... you really have some audacity.

Where in any of my posts do I sound as if I am miserable with my life?

It's not me who is always complaining how hard it is, how bad it is.

Yeah, i have joy in my life. I am not unhappy with my life at all. I am extremely blessed. There is no way I can complain. I am extremely grateful for my husband. He is ten times the man, faults and all. and this forum has helped me be even more grateful.

You could work on emanating gratefulness yourself, Shannon. You are forever complaining about everything under the sun.

I would love to know where i have ever complained about my life?

 

[benedictaoo]

Yeah.. Jesus ---what a drama queen... He was just so demonstrative with His struggles...

I really do not know what your problem is... honesty, but you are way out of line now.

Do I need to have a nervous break down every other day to be Christ like to you Shannon? I'm not growing if i don't have a nervous disorder?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I think it's possible to have peace and joy as Christians even when things are going really badly. If we keep our mind on Christ, He will give us peace even though everything is falling apart. His peace is supernatural, not merely natural. I think we lose our peace when we distrust in God.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

You got to be kidding me... you really have some audacity.

Where in any of my posts do I sound as if I am miserable with my life?

It's not me who is always complaining how hard it is, how bad it is.

Yeah, i have joy in my life. I am not unhappy with my life at all. I am extremely blessed. There is no way I can complain. I am extremely grateful for my husband. He is ten times the man, faults and all. and this forum has helped me be even more grateful.

You could work on emanating gratefulness yourself, Shannon. You are forever complaining about everything under the sun.

I would love to know where i have ever complained about my life?

I am just telling you how you come across--in nearly every post you come across as an angry, grumpy, hate-filled Christian...take it if it's useful. Leave it if it's not.

I know my witness sucks...especially here. This place brings out the very worst in me. I definitely need to develop the ability to be more compassionate here towards those who hate me.