Birth Control

JacksLadder · May 2, 2009

O.k. so most Catholics I know say you can be a Catholic and take birth control.

From what I know the offical teaching is no birth control.

Would someone have to give up birth control to be Catholic?

I know of a relative that left the Catholic church because she could not bare to have more children after a really drawn out and painful birth. Should she have stayed?

hsilgne · May 2, 2009

NFP is an acceptable form of birth control for Catholics.

Yes, she should have stayed.

JacksLadder · May 2, 2009

hsilgne said:
NFP is an acceptable form of birth control for Catholics.

Yes, she should have stayed.

What would you say to someone that likes Catholicsim and can accept almost everything about it but has the birth control issue as a stumbling block? Like not seeing a reson to give it up?

D'Ann · May 2, 2009

JacksLadder said:
What would you say to someone that likes Catholicsim and can accept almost everything about it but has the birth control issue as a stumbling block? Like not seeing a reson to give it up?

All Catholics do struggle with a few Catholic teachings here and there. That being said, Catholics by faith accept a teaching and obey the teaching even if they don't understand it or struggle with accepting it.

Birth control is a very sticky issue. Most Catholics struggle with this one too.

NFP is an acceptable way of being open to creation. We are not allowed (by Church teaching) to use any kind of birth control pill or anything that blocks the way for God's will to be done. We believe that God should control the births. It is God who gives life and therefore, we believe that we are to be open to God's will.

I'm sure others will be able to explain it better.

God's peace,

Deb

JCFantasy23 · May 2, 2009

I know there are Catholics who have varying opinions on birth control and who still remain Catholic. The only two people in real life that I know who are Catholic recently got a tubal litigation with the last pregnancy. It was an issue they struggled with at first but one they ultimately decided was best, and they are still very much Catholic and happy with their faith. Hope this helps!

Fantine · May 2, 2009

If churches didn't welcome sinners they would all be empty.

Yes, some Catholic couples sin by practicing birth control. And yes, it may even be 75 to 90% of those couples of childbearing age....

And yes, some Catholic couples practice NFP, but they probably sin in other ways. Maybe they sin by patting themselves on the back about how much better they are than those other bad Catholics.

Maybe they sin by gossiping and slandering those other bad Catholics.

Maybe they sin by feeling envy when those other bad Catholics have some of life's goodies they can't afford because they have large families.

I'm just spinning my wheels. Catholic couples who practice birth control probably have other faults.

Catholic couples who practice NFP probably have faults, too.

Some Catholic couples who practice NFP might even have MORE faults than some Catholic couples who practice birth control. (And vice-versa, of course.)

What I don't understand is why some Catholics set up the "sexual" sins like they're the "deal breakers."

Sin is sin.

Yes, some Catholics will try to justify their reasons for using birth control as being "good."

But most people will make excuses for their bad behavior, no matter what the bad behavior is.

In other words, birth control is a sin. We are all sinners in some way.

People who practice birth control don't have to sew scarlet letters on their articles of clothing so that they can be shunned by the orthodox Catholics....

And Church helps everyone grow closer to God, so everyone needs church, regardless of his/her individual struggles.

D'Ann · May 2, 2009

Fantine said:
If churches didn't welcome sinners they would all be empty.

Yes, some Catholic couples sin by practicing birth control. And yes, it may even be 75 to 90% of those couples of childbearing age....

And yes, some Catholic couples practice NFP, but they probably sin in other ways. Maybe they sin by patting themselves on the back about how much better they are than those other bad Catholics.

Maybe they sin by gossiping and slandering those other bad Catholics.

Maybe they sin by feeling envy when those other bad Catholics have some of life's goodies they can't afford because they have large families.

I'm just spinning my wheels. Catholic couples who practice birth control probably have other faults.

Catholic couples who practice NFP probably have faults, too.

Some Catholic couples who practice NFP might even have MORE faults than some Catholic couples who practice birth control. (And vice-versa, of course.)

What I don't understand is why some Catholics set up the "sexual" sins like they're the "deal breakers."

Sin is sin.

Yes, some Catholics will try to justify their reasons for using birth control as being "good."

But most people will make excuses for their bad behavior, no matter what the bad behavior is.

In other words, birth control is a sin. We are all sinners in some way.

People who practice birth control don't have to sew scarlet letters on their articles of clothing so that they can be shunned by the orthodox Catholics....

And Church helps everyone grow closer to God, so everyone needs church, regardless of his/her individual struggles.

Wow, Fantine, your post seems a bit hostile. I don't believe anyone in this thread was criticizing anyone for asking questions or for struggling with various Catholic teachings.

WE all know that we all are sinners and none are righteous. We all know that it is only through our Lord Jesus that any of us have any hope of overcoming our sins. I don't believe that was the question in the OP.

As Catholics, even if we struggle and even if we do sin, we still need to acknowledge the truth. The truth is it is a sin to use birth control according the Catholic Church teachings and therefore, when we do this, we are betraying and disobeying the teaching of the Catholic Church on birth control. Now of course, if someone repents of this sin and does their best to overcome with the help of the Holy Spirit, then of course, they are most definitely forgiven. And well, I believe we all struggle with some form of sin because yes, we are human, but that is not the point of the OP.

God's peace,

Deb

Fantine · May 2, 2009

In the years of the early Church, people were attracted to Catholicism because they said, "See how these Christians love one another."

When I am in a Catholic environment where I am truly immersed in that feeling--see how these Christians love one another--I just feel like saying "ahhhhhh..."

I love that feeling. I love being with Catholics who bring that feeling alive for me.

I want everyone, yes everyone, to look at Catholic churches and be attracted because they "see how these Christians love one another."

But if you look at the media, how much of that do you see? Not much. Catholics are known for being against birth control, condoms, abortion.

In some parts of the country, bishops are known for grandstanding and not much else.

And so yes, I look at that picture and say, "What's wrong with this picture?"

"What happened to 'See how these Christians love one another?'"

You know, in atmospheres of real love, the best environment for real moral growth to take place, no one would even have to talk about birth control. Couples would mutually respect one another; they would have the kinds of communication skills that would allow them to practice NFP. Lots of good things would be going on that aren't always going on at the present moment.

So, original poster, if you want to be a Catholic and aren't sure you can follow that one rule, come anyway with an open heart and bring your enthusiasm and spirituality and determination to grow as a Christian in whatever way you can, and when you encounter those "early Church" occasions, just say thank you, Jesus, and use them as opportunities for growth.

BAFRIEND · May 2, 2009

JCFantasy23 said:
I know there are Catholics who have varying opinions on birth control and who still remain Catholic. The only two people in real life that I know who are Catholic recently got a tubal litigation with the last pregnancy. It was an issue they struggled with at first but one they ultimately decided was best, and they are still very much Catholic and happy with their faith. Hope this helps!

They are also very much excommunicated.

benedictaoo · May 2, 2009

JacksLadder said:
O.k. so most Catholics I know say you can be a Catholic and take birth control.

From what I know the offical teaching is no birth control.

Would someone have to give up birth control to be Catholic?

I know of a relative that left the Catholic church because she could not bare to have more children after a really drawn out and painful birth. Should she have stayed?

You do not have to keep having kids if... you know, you really can't or shouldn't.

But you can not take any kind of ABC. You can use NFP.

most Catholics I know say you can be a Catholic and take birth control.

They are full of it.

Should she have stayed?

Of course. the Church is Christ's own.. where else is she going to go?

benedictaoo · May 2, 2009

If churches didn't welcome sinners they would all be empty.

Sinners that are redeemed and have turned a new leaf, who are reforming their life. Not rebellious, hardened sinners who refuse to follow God's eternal law.

Jesus loves them and wants them but they must repent. the problem is, they don't. Problem is, they think they can have it both ways, have their sins and their forgiveness to.

It don't work that way, fantine.

benedictaoo · May 2, 2009

JCFantasy23 said:
I know there are Catholics who have varying opinions on birth control and who still remain Catholic. The only two people in real life that I know who are Catholic recently got a tubal litigation with the last pregnancy. It was an issue they struggled with at first but one they ultimately decided was best, and they are still very much Catholic and happy with their faith. Hope this helps!

they ultimately decided was best

you got that right. Wow... they decided. wow...

JacksLadder · May 2, 2009

Well I definitely got a consensus answer on this thread. No birth control no matter what Catholics I know tell me .

Fantine · May 2, 2009

BAfriend, no one has ever been excommunicated for practicing birth control.

Benedictaoo said: Sinners that are redeemed and have turned a new leaf, who are reforming their life. Not rebellious, hardened sinners who refuse to follow God's eternal law.

If you said that about people who ate too many cookies, or who drank a beer or two too many on a weekend, or who took the name of God in vain when they were upset, or broke the speed limit while driving, 99.9999% of Catholics would say "Huh??????"

Well, why are people who practice birth control any different from people who struggle with other bad habits or addictions or issues? This is exactly what I was talking about.

Isn't it stereotyping to say they are all "rebellious, hardened sinners?" I don't think I've ever met a "rebellious, hardened sinner" in my life. I've met lots of people who are basically good but not perfect. I've met lots of people who have many different experiences, and if I had their experiences, I might not have dealt with them as well.

I have met some "hardened" finger-pointers in my day.....but, you know, I don't know what pains they may have endured that hardened their hearts so much, either.

And people who struggle with issues of power and control might be doing so because they have such a tenuous hold on their own internal controls that ordering the world their way is the only way they can survive.

In other words, I try not to judge...and if I do, I try to put myself in the other person's shoes.

And I have never, ever, ever, ever put myself in someone else's shoes and found a "hardened, rebellious sinner."

Rhamiel · May 3, 2009

neat thread, everybody has given good answers
contraception is an unatural sin
but we also have to remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners, we all have things we have to work on

lucyclaire · May 3, 2009

Fantine said:
BAfriend, no one has ever been excommunicated for practicing birth control.

If you said that about people who ate too many cookies, or who drank a beer or two too many on a weekend, or who took the name of God in vain when they were upset, or broke the speed limit while driving, 99.9999% of Catholics would say "Huh??????"

Well, why are people who practice birth control any different from people who struggle with other bad habits or addictions or issues? This is exactly what I was talking about.

Isn't it stereotyping to say they are all "rebellious, hardened sinners?" I don't think I've ever met a "rebellious, hardened sinner" in my life. I've met lots of people who are basically good but not perfect. I've met lots of people who have many different experiences, and if I had their experiences, I might not have dealt with them as well.

I have met some "hardened" finger-pointers in my day.....but, you know, I don't know what pains they may have endured that hardened their hearts so much, either.

And people who struggle with issues of power and control might be doing so because they have such a tenuous hold on their own internal controls that ordering the world their way is the only way they can survive.

In other words, I try not to judge...and if I do, I try to put myself in the other person's shoes.

And I have never, ever, ever, ever put myself in someone else's shoes and found a "hardened, rebellious sinner."

I am from a parish of two thousand plus, and people with more than three children are unusual... I don't believe they are limiting their families through NFP alone, most conciously stop after two children, many for finincal reasons or because two is enough to give their attention too...I suspect the fathers get the snip, nobody is ex-communicated and how can some bloke on an internet forum decide that anyone is ex-communicated, the whole issue is a matter between a Catholic and their Priest...Cheri Booth, Tony Blair's wife has talked about her choice to take the pill, nobody has ever suggested she should be ex-communicated and her husband has been confirmed into the church, despite taking us to war and legalising gay civil unions (which I support actually)...And there four children have been to top Catholic schools...
So my advise it that the person involved in taking this decision should research the issue and ask for advice from someone in the real world, not from a bunch of most Conservative Catholics who don't reflect the majority of Catholics that go to mass....

Fantine made some excellent points, people take about sin as though it is independent of them... One thing the Priests don't to is talk about sin without pointing to themselves first....

Rhamiel · May 3, 2009

lucyclaire said:
I am from a parish of two thousand plus, and people with more than three children are unusual... I don't believe they are limiting their families through NFP alone, most conciously stop after two children, many for finincal reasons or because two is enough to give their attention too...I suspect the fathers get the snip, nobody is ex-communicated and how can some bloke on an internet forum decide that anyone is ex-communicated, the whole issue is a matter between a Catholic and their Priest...Cheri Booth, Tony Blair's wife has talked about her choice to take the pill, nobody has ever suggested she should be ex-communicated and her husband has been confirmed into the church, despite taking us to war and legalising gay civil unions (which I support actually)...And there four children have been to top Catholic schools...
So my advise it that the person involved in taking this decision should research the issue and ask for advice from someone in the real world, not from a bunch of most Conservative Catholics who don't reflect the majority of Catholics that go to mass....

Fantine made some excellent points, people take about sin as though it is independent of them... One thing the Priests don't to is talk about sin without pointing to themselves first....

at one point, most of the Church in the East was gnostic, that did not make it correct, contreception is an unatural action that preverts the physical act of making love

benedictaoo · May 3, 2009

To quote this deacon on TV... contraceptives turn a women's body into a playground, she's free take a ride on.

NFP does not do that and for all the hair splitting that goes on here... this is exactly the differnce between the two.

benedictaoo · May 3, 2009

Rhamiel said:
neat thread, everybody has given good answers
contraception is an unatural sin
but we also have to remember that the Church is a hospital for sinners, we all have things we have to work on

But? is there a dichotomy that i do not know about?

you can not work on the things while you are in rebellion and you can not change what you do not even acknowledge.

A hospital is for folks who want to get well and be healed. They cooperate with the physician. That's why we go... We do not go to just stay sick and diseased.

benedictaoo · May 3, 2009

Fantine said:
BAfriend, no one has ever been excommunicated for practicing birth control.

If you said that about people who ate too many cookies, or who drank a beer or two too many on a weekend, or who took the name of God in vain when they were upset, or broke the speed limit while driving, 99.9999% of Catholics would say "Huh??????"

Well, why are people who practice birth control any different from people who struggle with other bad habits or addictions or issues? This is exactly what I was talking about.

Isn't it stereotyping to say they are all "rebellious, hardened sinners?" I don't think I've ever met a "rebellious, hardened sinner" in my life. I've met lots of people who are basically good but not perfect. I've met lots of people who have many different experiences, and if I had their experiences, I might not have dealt with them as well.

I have met some "hardened" finger-pointers in my day.....but, you know, I don't know what pains they may have endured that hardened their hearts so much, either.

And people who struggle with issues of power and control might be doing so because they have such a tenuous hold on their own internal controls that ordering the world their way is the only way they can survive.

In other words, I try not to judge...and if I do, I try to put myself in the other person's shoes.

And I have never, ever, ever, ever put myself in someone else's shoes and found a "hardened, rebellious sinner."

Oh my goodness... the difference is GRAVE and MORTAL sin... vrs venial sin and weakness. when we are in Mortal sin-- we killed the life of grace in us. we excommunicated ourselves and this is a fact fantine.. wow... the misleading that is happening here. If we take communion in sin-- we incur MORE sin-- wow.

I can't believe you said what you did.

Are you encourging Catholics in their mortal sin?

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