Birth Control

[PantsMcFist]

Onan was not practicing birth control. He was trying to have his cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

In the ancient near-East, it was quite common for a brother to step in if the husband was unable to do produce offspring, just as a barren woman would have her handmaiden as a surrogate mother for her children.

It was an extreme dishonour for a male to be without any children, so "God" commanded that Onan step up. Having sex with a woman was also an act of taking possession. When David's son had sex with all his father's concubines on the palace roof, it was a statement of ownership. So, when Onan decided to intentionally deny his brother progeny, he was trying to gravely dishonour his brother, while laying claim to his household as well.

That's why he was killed.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Wait... so adultery is allowed for the wife if you shoot blanks and allowed for you if she doesn't get pregnant? I really need to reread the OT.

 

[Belk]

Wait... so adultery is allowed for the wife if you shoot blanks and allowed for you if she doesn't get pregnant? I really need to reread the OT.

No, the brother had died. According to the law at the time it was Onan's responsibility to get the wife pregnant so that his brothers line would continue (don't ask me how that works). Onan was killed because he was avoiding his responsibility to his brother.

 

[PantsMcFist]

Wait... so adultery is allowed for the wife if you shoot blanks and allowed for you if she doesn't get pregnant? I really need to reread the OT.

It wasn't defined as adultery, because the purpose was not selfish. Progeny was the goal of every marriage, and there were loopholes in fidelity to allow either sex to retain their honour if they proved to be infertile.

 

[epice]

No, the brother had died. According to the law at the time it was Onan's responsibility to get the wife pregnant so that his brothers line would continue (don't ask me how that works). Onan was killed because he was avoiding his responsibility to his brother.

In most of rural African this is still practiced though today. When a husband dies, regardless whether there are children or not, the women automatically gets taken care of by the older brother-in-law, in all aspects of live. The reason behind that is the same; to make sure the name of the deceased brother lives on. His children then become the brothers children. Has nothing to do with adultery, just centuries old tradition.

 

[keith99]

Can the mod's hold off at least for a little while on SoFs threads? I really like responding to them.

Are you a Saint or a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

Actually I hope it is the third choice. You enjoy doing it so others will not be deceived.

Or perhaps it is one I have not thought of.

 

[PantsMcFist]

Are you a Saint or a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]?

Actually I hope it is the third choice. You enjoy doing it so others will not be deceived.

It's a mix between these two. Allow me to explain.

SoF clearly loves read, and draw points from the bible, which I think is great. I think there's a lot of depth to be explored in the bible, either as a revelotory or historical text. Problem for SoF being that I think he's suffering from a bit of social determinism in his interpretive framework (class, upbringing, education). If he doesn't listen to a thing I say, that's fine. I just want to point out what is happening beneath a cursory look at the text, and flesh out the meanings and nuances a bit more than what his interpretation allows for.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

It's a mix between these two. Allow me to explain.

SoF clearly loves read, and draw points from the bible, which I think is great. I think there's a lot of depth to be explored in the bible, either as a revelotory or historical text. Problem for SoF being that I think he's suffering from a bit of social determinism in his interpretive framework (class, upbringing, education). If he doesn't listen to a thing I say, that's fine. I just want to point out what is happening beneath a cursory look at the text, and flesh out the meanings and nuances a bit more than what his interpretation allows for.

Shhhhshhhhshhsssshhhhhhhh....no, no, no...

...speak not my name! Shhh... quite. speak only in whispers. And never speak my name. For the lock will find you. The power will fall upon you like a rock shower. A tidal wave of hush will envelope you... shhhh...

The laughter has bled out. The joy is gone. The name must be forgotten.

ssshhhhhh...whisper...

 

[ttreg]

nm.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Onan was not practicing birth control. He was trying to have his cake and eat it too, as the saying goes.

In the ancient near-East, it was quite common for a brother to step in if the husband was unable to do produce offspring, just as a barren woman would have her handmaiden as a surrogate mother for her children.

It was an extreme dishonour for a male to be without any children, so "God" commanded that Onan step up. Having sex with a woman was also an act of taking possession. When David's son had sex with all his father's concubines on the palace roof, it was a statement of ownership. So, when Onan decided to intentionally deny his brother progeny, he was trying to gravely dishonour his brother, while laying claim to his household as well.

That's why he was killed.

Can the mod's hold off at least for a little while on SoFs threads? I really like responding to them.

We celarly see in the bible Onan did perform a form of BC, considering he "spilled his seed" on purpose as the bible says.

Sex without the openess to procreation would be selfish indulgence and in turn become lust. BC is very common in rebellious lustful women who sleep around and are harlots. But there are many other problems, considering almost half of all unintended pregnancys happen on BC and many young women think that if they are on BC they are immune to STDs.

Either way BC encourages promiscuity and harlotry. It takes away the openness to life and the fully giving oneself to their partner. TO even think that schools today are teaching young women to take BC and just use condoms is horrible and hurts a childrens innocence considerably.

 

[QuakerOats]

Although the account speaks of Onan using a form of birth control, if you want to call it that, it is not the focal point. In Levirate law, it was the younger brother's duty to produce offspring-an heir-with the elder's wife if he should die. That is the issue being addressed here, not the practice of birth control in and of itself. I think stretching this verse in order to condemn any and all birth control practice is erroneous at best.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Although the account speaks of Onan using a form of birth control, if you want to call it that, it is not the focal point. In Levirate law, it was the younger brother's duty to produce offspring-an heir-with the elder's wife if he should die. That is the issue being addressed here, not the practice of birth control in and of itself. I think stretching this verse in order to condemn any and all birth control practice is erroneous at best.

Why not focus on the incredible Tamar?

In her world, this story would be unbearable to live with.

It gets even worse for this phenom of a woman, as she goes on to dress up like a hooker and has sex with her father-in-law Judah and, gets pregnant.

Yet, she is a great grandmother of Jesus.

This is what forgiveness does in the mind of God.

We get to see the story played out, but God no longer can.

There are many people with dispicable actions in the family tree of Jesus.

Of course Onan isn't one of them.

Guess he should have thought more highly of Tamar.



Easy to see why Jesus didn't condemn the woman literally caught in adultery.

 

[LouTheWicked]

Either way BC encourages promiscuity and harlotry.

I'm been on the pill for almost a year and I have yet to get laid.

 

[TeddyKGB]

I'm been on the pill for almost a year and I have yet to get laid.

10/10 - would read again and again.

 

[pantless rationalist]

Why not focus on the incredible Tamar?

In her world, this story would be unbearable to live with.

It gets even worse for this phenom of a woman, as she goes on to dress up like a hooker and has sex with her father-in-law Judah and, gets pregnant.

...

There are many people with dispicable actions in the family tree of Jesus.

I thought of this part of the story right away, as well. The only problem with your summary, though, is that Tamar wasn't[i/] condemned for her prostitution. In fact, Judah states that "he is more righteous than I, since I wouldn't give her to my son Shelah" (v. 26).

Or course, Judah isn't condemned for sleeping with a prostitute, either. The only thing that he was guilty of was not supplying Tamar with a husband and child.

Based on this, it seems that the main issue in this chapter is that Tamar should get a replacement husband. If sex for pleasure is bad, Judah would have been condemned for sleeping with a prostitute.