Binding and loosing

[SamZ1992]

I have a question on Matthew 18:18.. I grew up Amish and when I was 17 my whole family left the old order amish because we felt they were teaching a works based salvation.. We were Mennonite (drove cars and had electricity etc) for 2 years.. Then my parents wanted to go back to some kind of amish, so we could communicate with our relatives a little more.. So they found a new-order type amish church that thought salvation through faith.. And being born again etc. They don't have man made rules tied to the church.. They live solely on the bible. Anyway, I met a girl from a strict old order church and we fell in love and are planning on getting married in May.... But in order to marry her I have to move to her church and become a member there.. At first I didn't like that idea cause they believe in a lotta stuff that I don't believe is 100% truth..


(they have very low morals, their young people party, get drunk and are very wild...not unlike the young of this world, almost everyone smokes.. They don't talk about God much except in church.. And even then its only the preachers talking about God... They believe we cannot know if we are saved, that we just go through life in good hopes that we did good enough and attended church enough to reach salvation when they meet Jesus.. There's lot more stuff but I will touch on that later)

But I decided I will do that so we can get married and then after we're married we can move to where I came from. But I just found out they are talking to my girlfriend and warning her to not let me talk her into moving to any new order church... (Or any other church for that matter). Because "that church is bad" because "they can have phones" and "they preach in English at church" etc.

Now its very hard to talk to my girlfriend on the subject... I started asking questions about why it would be so bad moving to that church? And they said its because when I become of this church I have go promise to take my place and help build this church up.. And never to leave the faith. Then I told them I don't think its right to tie someone to the church.. That we should only be committed to Christ.. Then they quoted Matthew 18:18 and said that if I join this church I am tied to live here forever.. Cause whatever the church (the whole church in agreement) decides, or binds, God will bind it also in heaven..therefore if I leave this church I will be shunned and treated like an unbeliever... And all their man made rules aren't man made anymore because the bound them here.. And now God has bound them in heaven.. Making the rules appear to be coming directly from God.. .
But don't believe that's what the Jesus in Matthew 18 was talking about... But I haven't really studied the subject enough to be able to give them a clear answer on that.. So that is my question.. What exactly was Jesus talking about? How do I answer them on that?

 

[talitha]

First and foremost, you have posted in a forum where non-Christians can participate, so there's no telling the advice and range of opinions you're going to get here. I'd try posting in "Conservative Christianity" or something like that. My husband and I used to belong to a Mennonite church, and we had some Amish friends in our lives at that time, so I know something of what you're going through. I personally don't believe that in Matthew 18 Jesus was talking about commitments to congregations or traditions or denominations, but I hope you can get an answer from someone whose theology is closer to yours than mine is. I believe he was talking about forbidding and allowing things - he was giving them the authority to make church law, as in when the early church made the law about abstaining from things offered to idols (cf Acts 15).

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Not a christian but I think that in this context it means allowing or disallowing. Also in the medieval times binding and loosing were forms of spell where people were "bound to be sick" or "loosened from a binding spell" etc. The idea is focused intention (sometimes working with effigies etc too) having a magical style effect for good or for evil. So another interpretation would be one with moral character would bind only evil (or intend it to be supressed) and loosen anything which promoted the Christian life. And in heaven then, the effects would be seen or materialised. Just as 2+2=4, binding and loosing in the right way would produce heaven in a sense? With spiritual energies, just as good character and leadership has good physical parallels.

 

[dgiharris]

I'm Baptist, my belief and understanding of God is simply that we accept Jesus into our hearts, we repent, we work on our relationship with Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit, we read the bible, and we sincerely do the best we can...

Churches are constructs of man and they aren't God. It is my belief that anything created by man is prone to error and with many churches the internal politics can easily lead that particular church astray from God's path.

The idea that "only" this Church is viable to me smacks right up against the idea of idoltry and worshiping false idols. What was the point of the Gospel and spreading the Gospel "if" only one church was the true and righteous church? In effect, any one church claiming to be the only church that can save your soul is in fact setting themselves up as a false idol.

A church is supposed to provide fellowship and a community that worships with you and helps facilitate your relationship with God. However, that church is NOT Jesus, that church is not the only one true path to God. And any church that professes itself to be such is a false idol.

The other point I get from reading your post is that neither you nor your girlfriend understand the bible or have a good relationship with God. This is your life, and you both profess to be children of God. So be children of God. Read the bible, pray, and do what he leads you to do. Usually, the correct decision will be the hard one and I will leave it at that.

Good luck

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Theres often an elaborate theology of the church which for me gets in the way of 'God-consciousness' and healthy mind. The RCC for instance, although it has some beautiful liturgy and artworks etc, is sometimes so very intricate to understand. Even a Catholic periodical said that the Mass can be a "puzzle" and the basic idea of mercy was often better for the common people to relate to. The Church is meant to be built on a solid foundation, not an intelligence service level IQ test.

 

[juvenissun]

I have a question on Matthew 18:18..

The first generation church has the authority given by the Lord Jesus to rule individuals as well as churches. But I do think a church today could only govern its own congregation, but not any one outside the church. You honor your girl friend and consider to get married in her church. That is fine. But any church has no God given authority (Matt 18:18) to stop any one from leaving the church.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'ld elope with the girl and go live somewhere far away, where people aren't trying to control my thoughts and my destiny.