Bill Maher tells actor he’s ‘crazy woke’ for refusing to 'judge' Islam over its treatment of women

[Vambram]

Thank you for those links (sincerely), but I am amused at how right I was - his audience is small and less than half of them are under 55.

Although it might be fair to consider Maher's audience and ratings to be small, I think that his ratings are compare relatively favorably to other cable talk shows that are aimed towards a liberal audience.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Although it might be fair to consider Maher's audience and ratings to be small, I think that his ratings are compare relatively favorably to other cable talk shows that are aimed towards a liberal audience.

They may be (I’m not going to bother to verify the numbers), but nobody watches them, either. Dem media consumption skews more towards print.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'll concede I'm not up on everybody's rhetoric, but it's my impression that most Dem senators and governors would pass that test.

Some of the governors, perhaps. Governors have a little more "wiggle room" per say, depending on the state they lead.
(for instance, the New England Republican governors like Charlie Baker, Hogan, and Sununu had the flexibility to be more socially moderate and navigate away from the federal level republican group think...I would imagine state-level Democrats would have the same flexibility)


On point of reference:
Only about 3 in 10 Americans believe transgender women and girls should be allowed to participate in female sports, according to a new poll from the Washington Post-University of Maryland


Yet, the administration's take (when proposing changes and enhancements to Title IX):
“The proposed rule would establish that policies violate Title IX when they ban transgender students from participating on sports teams consistent with their gender identity just because of who they are,” according to a public notice from the US Department of Education.


They're basically embracing something that's unpopular with 70% of the country.

And that has caused some infighting among democratic house reps on the issue:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/13/democrats-moderates-transgender-issues-strategy-00189123

Are you picking that up from the politicians themselves or from people on twitter?

I'm basing that on their refusal to have a "Sister Souljah Moment", and the fact that they'll sidestep and dodge any question, for which the answer may agitate particular groups, and advocate for certain policies that most of America (even most of their own party) isn't on board with.

Few examples:

The new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal in most or all circumstances in the first trimester of a pregnancy. However, 65% said abortion should usually be illegal in the second trimester, and 80% said that about the third trimester.

On the topic of Abortion, which party is actually closer to the aforementioned poll results? Obviously, the GOP outflanks that on the right, but I would say federal level Democrats outflank it by a larger degree on the left.

If 80% of the population suggests that elective abortion should be restricted in the 3rd trimester (and two thirds say the same about the 2nd trimester), and only a slim majority thinks it should be allowed for elective purposes in the first trimester...

Which position is closer to that?
"Capping elective abortion at X number of weeks in the first trimester"
or
"Legal for any reason, at any anytime, and taxpayer funded"


Another example:

Immigration would be another prime example. Over 60% of Americans want stricter immigration laws. The Biden Administration spent 3.5 years punting on that issue, and didn't start pretending to care about it until the last 6 months when they realize it could be the death nail for their 2024 campaign. (at which point, they tried to co-opt that issue to yank the rug out from Trump and take away his "winning issue")

 

[Chesterton]

"crazy woke" - isn't that redundant?

 

[Chesterton]

Never watched him. I heard he said mean things about religion generally, including Christianity.

You should watch him. He's quite philanthropic:

 

[iluvatar5150]

Some of the governors, perhaps. Governors have a little more "wiggle room" per say, depending on the state they lead.
(for instance, the New England Republican governors like Charlie Baker, Hogan, and Sununu had the flexibility to be more socially moderate and navigate away from the federal level republican group think...I would imagine state-level Democrats would have the same flexibility)


On point of reference:
Only about 3 in 10 Americans believe transgender women and girls should be allowed to participate in female sports, according to a new poll from the Washington Post-University of Maryland


Yet, the administration's take (when proposing changes and enhancements to Title IX):
“The proposed rule would establish that policies violate Title IX when they ban transgender students from participating on sports teams consistent with their gender identity just because of who they are,” according to a public notice from the US Department of Education.

From that WaPo article about the poll:

The poll, conducted May 4 through 17 among 1,503 people across the United States, finds 55 percent of Americans opposed to allowing transgender women and girls to compete with other women and girls in high school sports and 58 percent opposed to it for college and professional sports. About 3 in 10 Americans said transgender women and girls should be allowed to compete at each of those levels, while an additional 15 percent have no opinion.

3/10 + 15% = 45%

So, right off the bat, they're not that far from the midline. Second, that public notice only addressed blanket bans:

Under the proposed regulation, schools would not be permitted to adopt or apply a one-size-fits-all policy that categorically bans transgender students from participating on teams consistent with their gender identity.

Instead, the Department's approach would allow schools flexibility to develop team eligibility criteria that serve important educational objectives, such as ensuring fairness in competition or preventing sports-related injury. These criteria would have to account for the sport, level of competition, and grade or education level to which they apply. These criteria could not be premised on disapproval of transgender students or a desire to harm a particular student. The criteria also would have to minimize harms to students whose opportunity to participate on a male or female team consistent with their gender identity would be limited or denied.

So, a Dem administration are the bad guys for insisting on a policy that requires thoughtfulness on the part of policy makers.

I'm basing that on their refusal to have a "Sister Souljah Moment", and the fact that they'll sidestep and dodge any question, for which the answer may agitate particular groups, and advocate for certain policies that most of America (even most of their own party) isn't on board with.

Few examples:

The new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal in most or all circumstances in the first trimester of a pregnancy. However, 65% said abortion should usually be illegal in the second trimester, and 80% said that about the third trimester.

On the topic of Abortion, which party is actually closer to the aforementioned poll results? Obviously, the GOP outflanks that on the right, but I would say federal level Democrats outflank it by a larger degree on the left.

If 80% of the population suggests that elective abortion should be restricted in the 3rd trimester (and two thirds say the same about the 2nd trimester), and only a slim majority thinks it should be allowed for elective purposes in the first trimester...

Which position is closer to that?
"Capping elective abortion at X number of weeks in the first trimester"
or
"Legal for any reason, at any anytime, and taxpayer funded"

That poll doesn't jive with other stuff I've seen:

Public Opinion on Abortion

While public support for legal abortion has fluctuated some in two decades of polling, it has remained relatively stable over the past five years.

www.pewresearch.org

I'll concede that I haven't paid much attention to abortion polling in a while, but given the successes of various abortion-related ballot initiatives in even conservative states, I'm skeptical that the numbers in your poll are accurate.

 

[Pommer]

Democrats are less affected by what an “influencer” has to say than when a Republican “influencer“ makes a pronouncement, but it seems that a fair number of the latter don’t know this about the former.

 

[RDKirk]

I think the only people watching Bill Maher at this point are right-wing commentators and maybe a handful of dudes over the age of 50. Even if you agree with him, he's been doing the same stale schtick for 30 years.

I notice you used ad hominems rather than speaking about the issues.

 

[RDKirk]

If a woman CHOOSES to wear a hijab, I am in support of it. I am not in support of it being forced. It is strange to me though that Jewish Orthodox women have expectations on them as well but I never hear them getting any support.

You missed a point. Muslim men are attempting to coerce women on the street in England to adhere to Islamic law. Orthodox Jews in NYC are not attemp;ting coerce Christian women on the street to adhere to Orthodox Judaism.

I don't see the benefit of standing atop the mountain and saying "I judge thee, muslims for ....."

What's the point in that?

So, why judge American right wingers for their culture? Why are Critical Theory ideologists judging Western culture at all?

 

[RDKirk]

What rabbit hole? Between Maher and Cryer, you have two people who nobody cares about outside of right-wingers who think Maher has purchase on the left.


I have no idea who watches John Stewart anymore. He left the Daily Show almost 10 years ago (yes, I know he returned last year as a weekly guest host), at which point, his relevance seemed to drop off pretty quickly. His advocacy work for 9/11 responders had traction a while ago, but most mention I've seen of him lately has been mildly critical.

"How did Reagan win? Nobody I know voted for him."

 

[RDKirk]

Maybe that explains why his schtick hasn't evolved since then, either.

I mean... I appreciate that that was a direct answer to my question, so maybe I should've asked a different question. Or made a different point.

I don't think Maher has his finger on the pulse of anything. There's always a segment of the population that's going to be grumpy and contrarian, which is his target audience. He's outrage fuel for people who fancy themselves too urbane for Sean Hannity and too old for Joe Rogan.

Cryer's obviously over-correcting in what's quoted here, but he's right to be a bit gunshy of criticizing Islamic culture from over here, because it's not going to do any good - Maher's audience is primarily American and likely has little-to-no sway in the middle east. But what those comments will do is foment anti-islamic bigotry here in the US, which is bad. Unsurprisingly, it was the anti-Muslim sentiments that the OP's Fox News article latched onto the most.

"How did Reagan win? Nobody I know voted for him."

"How did Trump win? Nobody I know voted for him."

It seems like Maher did have his finger on the pulse.

Maher has been criticizing modern liberals for the hypocrisy of being pro-Islam for at least ten years now. That hypocrisy puzzled me initially as well, until I recognized that it's not actually an ideology of liberalism but rather Critical Theory ideology that has placed Western values as Oppressor/Colonizer in class struggle any and all non-Western values as Oppressed/Colonized. Thus, the West is always their bad guy and even Islam (despite its oppression against women and LGBT) winds up being their good guy.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I notice you used ad hominems rather than speaking about the issues.

Sure, but citing Maher is, itself, a sort of appeal to authority. Why should anybody care what he thinks?

You missed a point. Muslim men are attempting to coerce women on the street in England to adhere to Islamic law. Orthodox Jews in NYC are not attemp;ting coerce Christian women on the street to adhere to Orthodox Judaism.

Do you know that orthodox jews, or any other group, aren’t going around harassing people? The closes thing I found to the episode in question was this press release, which makes the situation in London sound like a fairly small number of roving jerks. How often would the same woman get catcalled by native white guys?

"How did Reagan win? Nobody I know voted for him."

From 2014-2023, The Daily Show lost 75% of its viewers and their average age increased from 48 to 63.

The Daily Show - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"How did Reagan win? Nobody I know voted for him."

"How did Trump win? Nobody I know voted for him."

It seems like Maher did have his finger on the pulse.

Maher has been criticizing modern liberals for the hypocrisy of being pro-Islam for at least ten years now. That hypocrisy puzzled me initially as well, until I recognized that it's not actually an ideology of liberalism but rather Critical Theory ideology that has placed Western values as Oppressor/Colonizer in class struggle any and all non-Western values as Oppressed/Colonized. Thus, the West is always their bad guy and even Islam (despite its oppression against women and LGBT) winds up being their good guy.

I’m not defending Cryer’s position and I think you’re right about their skewed perception of things through a Marxist lens. But I stand by my claim that most of that criticism (at least from folks like Maher ho aren’t actively trying to work to bette the situation for women in the middle east) here in the US will do more harm than good, because there are way more people in this country looking for an extra to hate Muslims than there are Muslims.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do you know that orthodox jews, or any other group, aren’t going around harassing people? The closes thing I found to the episode in question was this press release, which makes the situation in London sound like a fairly small number of roving jerks. How often would the same woman get catcalled by native white guys?

Catcalling is different than coerced/forced proselytizing efforts. (not saying either are good, just pointing out a contextual difference)

Where Judaism is unique in that regard, is among the Abrahamic religions, they're the only 1 out of the 3 that actually discourage conversion and proselytizing.

Apart from maybe the Hindu faith, no other faith besides Judaism makes it more abundantly clear that they have no desire to convert you or bring you into their religion.

(in fact, they make intentionally difficult to join, if you want to join the Jewish faith, it basically takes the same amount of time as getting an undergraduate degree)

 

[rambot]

You missed a point. Muslim men are attempting to coerce women on the street in England to adhere to Islamic law. Orthodox Jews in NYC are not attemp;ting coerce Christian women on the street to adhere to Orthodox Judaism.

So, why judge American right wingers for their culture? Why are Critical Theory ideologists judging Western culture at all?

The closer I am to it, the more it feels like self reflection, I would say.

Also, despite it all, I'm really big on judging WHOLE groups en masse.

For example, I'd wager many Muslim men are NOT attempting to coerce women on the streets in england to adhere to islamic law (though yes I certainly have a problem with what you ascribe)..

I will judge that behaviour from those that participate in it for sure.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Why would Islam personal beliefs be my business? As long as they don't force their rules and beliefs on us. Of course I believe religion should be private, and no interfer in my rights.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why would Islam personal beliefs be my business? As long as they don't force their rules and beliefs on us. Of course I believe religion should be private, and no interfer in my rights.

It should be noted that of all the religions, Islam has the worst track record in that regard when it grabs a majority foothold in an region/country

There's a plethora of majority Christian countries that manage to uphold secular governments, the same isn't true of Islam

 

[stevevw]

I remember this type of issue came up in the early days of Woke before it was called woke. Students were proclaiming moral relativism and there was no moral truths. Every culture had their own truth and we should not criticize them based on our own culture.

The example given was female genital circumcision or rather mutilation. So under this logic students were forced to defend genital mutilation. It gets a bit weird when you start to go into the other horrors as so called rational students had to justify all sorts of evil to stick to relativism.

Yet the ironic thing is these same moral relativists are the greatest virtue signaling and moral shaming ideologues when it comes to Woke with its list of dos and domn't, must use pronouns, shaming people, protesting on campus about the horrible wrongs of white people and the west lol.

Its alsmost like some sort of virus has struck western society that turns people into self destroying zombies determined to eat themselves, their own and the society that gave them the right to protest. Its like the very distant and extreme ideology the west use to thank God we were far away from is virtually being cultivated on our own doorsteps.

The crazy thing is it wasn't that the extremist invaded the west by force and spead their radical ideology. The west follishly invited this into their nations believing it was good. They were so blind by ideology that everyone is good natured and we can all live together is some multicultural melting pot.

They could not see that they actually helped create the hell they are now experiencing by not standing on the very principles that allowed them the freedoms. In forgetting the truth principles we built free nations on they are now under threat.