Biden is considering preemptive pardons for officials and allies before Trump takes office

[ThatRobGuy]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-pardons-trump-f36ead0eb92ea30e47cbfddfaf326f20

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is weighing whether to issue sweeping pardons for officials and allies who the White House fears could be unjustly targeted by President-elect Donald Trump’s administration, a preemptive move that would be a novel and risky use of the president’s extraordinary constitutional power.


Not a fan of moves like these, hoping they end up deciding against it.

The most glaring reason...what if something gets uncovered about a past crime that has nothing to do with political revenge, and is something uncovered as part of a different investigation that directly implicates one of the people receiving a blanket pardon?

 

[Nithavela]

That sounds like the sort of precedent the democrats always warn about trump setting.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

As I said in the other thread about this, preemptive pardons shouldn't be a thing. You should have to have an active indictment or conviction from which to be pardoned. If the pardon is being issued to preempt charges for crimes that might be brought in the future it should come as some other form, perhaps an EO? But I guess a preemptive pardon kind of is an EO under a different name. I can see the reason for it though.

It's not like there isn't a long precedent for this, though. It's happened many times throughout the history of the Presidency.

 

[stevevw]

I think it will backfire and this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Lefts credibility. They will come across as holier than though hypocrites after what they have said and done to Trump suppoerters, conservatives and Christians with lawfare and abuses of power.

Let the rot consume them until its expelled lol. Its like a possession so allow its own toxic ideology consume itself. We have seen that with the Left imploding, leaving the State and country. The logical consequence of the ideology is chaos especially for the person pushing it.

Reality and the truth cannot be dismissed for too long. They have a way of coming back to bite you.

But I agree the law should be changed. This is a strange priviliedge for a president especially in this political climate. I thought it was for a specific injustice like a Kings pardon. Where the person either was wrongly convicted or was overly convicted and then had done the right thing and showed change.

That should be the criteria otherwise you just devalue tyhe whole thing. I mean Biden has allowed his sone to get off everything over a long period even crimes he has not committed and may later be indicted on.

This will set precendets all over the place and affect anyone associted with any wrongdoing he has done as he cannot be used as a witness or co defendent. But then what else would you expect from the Lefts as a going away present. They have got to a point where they don't even hide it anymore. They just don't care and this is showing their true colors.

 

[Nithavela]

I think it will backfire and this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Lefts credibility. They will come across as holier than though hypocrites after what they have said and done to Trump suppoerters, conservatives and Christians with lawfare and abuses of power.

Ah, I don't know. From the POV of the right, the left has lost all credibility years ago. And vice versa, of course.

 

[ozso]

It seems warranted considering all those he hunted down during his last presidency. It was a real bloodbath.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Would that be biden admitting his government is full of criminals?

 

[eleos1954]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-pardons-trump-f36ead0eb92ea30e47cbfddfaf326f20

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is weighing whether to issue sweeping pardons for officials and allies who the White House fears could be unjustly targeted by President-elect Donald Trump’s administration, a preemptive move that would be a novel and risky use of the president’s extraordinary constitutional power.

The deliberations so far are largely at the level of White House lawyers. But Biden himself has discussed the topic with some senior aides, according to two people familiar with the matter who spoke on condition of anonymity Thursday to discuss the sensitive subject. No decisions have been made, the people said, and it is possible Biden opts to do nothing at all.

Pardons are historically afforded to those accused of specific crimes – and usually those who have already been convicted of an offense — but Biden’s team is considering issuing them for those who have not even been investigated, let alone charged.


Not a fan of moves like these, hoping they end up deciding against it.

The most glaring reason...what if something gets uncovered about a past crime that has nothing to do with political revenge, and is something uncovered as part of a different investigation that directly implicates one of the people receiving a blanket pardon?

If this happens no doubt it will be taken to the Supreme Court ... even so .... that does not mean that investigations in matters go away.

If Biden does indeed do this .... those pardoned can still be investigated/questioned and if they lie under oath then will commit perjury .... basically if done ... likely the democratic party will seal their fate and never be elected into power again. All corruption will be exposed.

There is great question of if accepts a pardon they relinquish their right to plead via the 5th amendment.

I doubt the Supreme Court would give a person a "license to lie" .... but who knows ... we live in a crazy world.

 

[durangodawood]

Given the new FBI director nominees promise to use the Bureau for political vengeance, I can fully understand the desire for Biden to shield his admin from that sort of abuse.

I think its a terrible power for the pres to have. But the blanket preemptive pardon precedent was set long ago.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Given the new FBI director nominees promise to use the Bureau for political vengeance, I can fully understand the desire for Biden to shield his admin from that sort of abuse.

I think its a terrible power for the pres to have. But the blanket preemptive pardon precedent was set long ago.

The circumstances are pretty unique for this one, are they not? (not normal pardons, but stand-alone preemptive ones for people who haven't even been charged with anything?)

I know Nixon was a notable case. And Carter did a blanket pardon for draft dodgers (who may or may not have been charged)

Bannon's pardon comes close, in that it had a preemptive provision tacked on, but he was already charged and awaiting trial when it occurred.

 

[durangodawood]

The circumstances are pretty unique for this one, are they not? (not normal pardons, but stand-alone preemptive ones for people who haven't even been charged with anything?)

I know Nixon was a notable case. And Carter did a blanket pardon for draft dodgers (who may or may not have been charged)

Bannon's pardon comes close, in that it had a preemptive provision tacked on, but he was already charged and awaiting trial when it occurred.

Both the pre-emptive and blanket pardon in principle have withstood the test of time, tho not a court challenge so far as I know.

 

[KCfromNC]

The circumstances are pretty unique for this one, are they not?

Yes, Biden being forced to react to GOP threats of lawfare are not normal. But given he's forced to do it by them, he obviously can't be blamed for doing so.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Yes, Biden being forced to react to GOP threats of lawfare are not normal. But given he's forced to do it by them, he obviously can't be blamed for doing so.

Wait, you're not doing a both sides critique thing by introducing information that would suggest that the actions of one side can be the direct result of a reaction to something the other side is doing, are you??

A) I thought that was my turf
B) I thought you frowned upon that sort of thing?


Now see, if I wanted to be snarky...I could do the "mmhmm both sides" dismissive rebuttal thing. But that's not my style.

...as a person who appreciates nuance and contextual aspects of sociopolitical issues, I'd say you're probably right. Had Trump not won the election, Biden probably would not have felt the need to be considering pardons for a bunch of people, and it's likely that his pardons for his son, at most, would've been limited to just the charges.

Because it's quite obvious that there are cases when people take measures, that on their own with no context, would seem like extreme measures, but when layering in the context of something their opponents did to prompt that reaction, it tends to make more sense.

Glad some folks are coming around on that.

 

[KCfromNC]

Because it's quite obvious that there are cases when people take measures, that on their own with no context, would seem like extreme measures, but when layering in the context of something their opponents did to prompt that reaction, it tends to make more sense.

There is, of course, an obvious difference between accepting at face value direct threats from an incoming president and random attempts at trying to connect dots from years or decades of tenuously connected events.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There is, of course, an obvious difference between accepting at face value direct threats from an incoming president and random attempts at trying to connect dots from years or decades of tenuously connected events.

The connection of the dots is neither random, nor are they only tenuously connected.

Given how much of politics is reactionary, I'd argue that much of what happens in government fits that mold.

Whether it be "reactionary politics" (in the context of PoliSci terms, which describes a position in right-wing politics of trying to return to a comfortable status quo)

Or whether it be "reactionary" in the purely semantic sense. "They're trying to do A, so I'm going to do B to stop them" (which would describe what Biden's doing in this case)

 

[KCfromNC]

The connection of the dots is neither random, nor are they only tenuously connected.

Given how much of politics is reactionary, I'd argue that much of what happens in government fits that mold.

In cases where it is actually a reaction, yes.

In cases where people continue to do what they've done for years and blame random others for their behavior each and every time, that's something else entirely.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Given the new FBI director nominees promise to use the Bureau for political vengeance,

Could you please post the quote where he said this; I have heard it repeated but never actually see or heard the quote.

 

[stevevw]

The circumstances are pretty unique for this one, are they not? (not normal pardons, but stand-alone preemptive ones for people who haven't even been charged with anything?)

I know Nixon was a notable case. And Carter did a blanket pardon for draft dodgers (who may or may not have been charged)

Bannon's pardon comes close, in that it had a preemptive provision tacked on, but he was already charged and awaiting trial when it occurred.

The difference being the p[re-emptive pardoning for Biden of his son Hunter is all associated with stuff Joe is probably involved in. So theres a massive conflict of interest here.

If he pardons others connected to this then he is really abusing his power. But we knew that all along anyway. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he pardons himself to avoid the coming investigations. Some say that what has gone on will make Watergate look like a minor blimp.

 

[durangodawood]

The difference being the p[re-emptive pardoning for Biden of his son Hunter is all associated with stuff Joe is probably involved in. So theres a massive conflict of interest here.

If he pardons others connected to this then he is really abusing his power. But we knew that all along anyway. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he pardons himself to avoid the coming investigations. Some say that what has gone on will make Watergate look like a minor blimp.

Theres no "abuse" of power anymore. Theres whatever you can get away with. So Biden should pardon everyone - just like Kash Patel should utilize the FBI for political vengeance, as promised.

 

[stevevw]

Theres no "abuse" of power anymore. Theres whatever you can get away with. So Biden should pardon everyone - just like Kash Patel should utilize the FBI for political vengeance, as promised.

Yeah I was going to say its sets a dangerous precedent where presidents can come in abuse power and allow these friends to do all sorts of things knowing they can be pardoned.