Bibliolatry

eleos1954 said:

God reveals himself through the written word ... it is His main vehicle of disclosing who He is. Catholic beliefs are based on both scripture and tradition. Jesus warned us of mans tradition .... because we are faulty the traditions (most of them) are faulty.

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There are two types of traditions, human traditions that must be rejected, according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ, and apostolic traditions that must be maintained because they are the same teaching of Christ.

“I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.” 1 Corinthians 11:2

“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15

“We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thessalonians 3:6

Joseph101 said:

There are two types of traditions, human traditions that must be rejected, according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ, and apostolic traditions that must be maintained because they are the same teaching of Christ.

“I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.” 1 Corinthians 11:2

“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15

“We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thessalonians 3:6

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Some disagree that traditions of the apostles applies to traditions instituted centuries after their time.

Xeno.of.athens said:

I do not think you will find such a statement in any credible denominational statement of faith. But in Christian Forums I have seen it, here, for example. And a thread includes the claim in its title, see here.

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Xeno.of.athens said:

See post #3

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Two posters? Is it worth even exploring?

Xeno.of.athens said:

It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.

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Specifically problematic is when people say that John 1:1-18 refers to the Bible and not Jesus Christ (the Bible is the Word insofar as it is a verbal icon that depicts the incarnation of our savior Jesus Christ, God the Son and Word), Or when they say that the Bible is uncreated (which is also the prevailing Sunni Muslim view or the Quran).

Xeno.of.athens said:

Indeed, what you've stated is either accurate or sufficiently near the truth to be indistinguishable. Individualism can give rise to peculiar doctrines, which is a concerning element of Protestantism, as some Protestant denominations endorse individualism in the reading and interpretation of the Bible. Conversely, Catholicism does not sanction individualism in either interpretation or doctrine. Consequently, within Christian Forums, there are instances of Protestants espousing quite unusual doctrines.

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Eastern Orthodoxy on the other hand does allow individual beliefs, called theological opinions or theologoumemna, in areas where the Church has not made a definite dogmatic determination through an Ecumenical Council or other means - however, the flipside is that Orthodox Christians tend to try to avoid being particularly opinionated because adhering adamantly and with passion to an opinion can lead to pride or spiritual delusion; corrigibility and dispassion are highly valued. So when people do hold spiritual opinions, it is not considered proper to try to force them on other members of the church.

This is in contrast to actual doctrinal disputes, of which there are a few, for example, over the propriety of ecumenical dialogue.

Xeno.of.athens said:

It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.

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That's an extreme position that I have not really seen much on here. I guess there might be 1 or 2 people over the years that I have seen make such a ridiculous statement.

The more problematic issue is the position that GOD only speaks from scripture to a Christian. They insert the bible between them and GOD and expect Him only to speak to them from it. In essence they don't have any real prayer life or relationship with Him, and can't discern the voice of GOD over any other source.

ARBITER01 said:

That's an extreme position that I have not really seen much on here. I guess there might be 1 or 2 people over the years that I have seen make such a ridiculous statement.

The more problematic issue is the position that GOD only speaks from scripture to a Christian. They insert the bible between them and GOD and expect Him only to speak to them from it. In essence they don't have any real prayer life or relationship with Him, and can't discern the voice of GOD over any other source.

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Like God spoke, wrote it done then went silent?

Akita Suggagaki said:

Like God spoke, wrote it done then went silent?

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No. more like they expect Him to only use passages in scripture to speak to them.

Joseph101 said:

There are two types of traditions, human traditions that must be rejected, according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ, and apostolic traditions that must be maintained because they are the same teaching of Christ.

“I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.” 1 Corinthians 11:2

“Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” 2 Thessalonians 2:15

“We instruct you, brothers, in the name of (our) Lord Jesus Christ,to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us.” 2 Thessalonians 3:6

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Despite the belief of the Catholic Church, the authoritative teachings of the apostles are found solely in Scripture, not in apostolic tradition. Christians do not have to turn to early church writings to read and interpret the Bible.

The Bible alone is the only authority in a Christian’s life. Men like Irenaeus and Origen provide insight into the teachings of the early church, but their writings are not inspired and sometimes even contain faulty theology. In contrast, Scripture contains what the apostles explicitly passed down for the instruction and teaching of the church (1 Corinthians 15:3–4; 2 Timothy 3:16–17; 2 Peter 1:16, 20–21). Traditions passed down through the first few centuries of church history were not inspired.

Xeno.of.athens said:

These claims lack solid backing in historical or practical terms. The holy scriptures themselves suggest that the acts of Christ extend beyond what is recorded, and the Apostolic Fathers bear witness to the true intent behind the holy scriptures.

The holy scriptures affirm that the only writings inspired by God are those known by Saint Timothy since his childhood, which are the texts of the Old Testament. For those seeking eternal life and grace, one should turn to God's works and the Lord Jesus Christ. No other individual can bestow these gifts. No text can unveil Christ to the soul. It is solely through the Holy Spirit of God that the life of Christ is imparted to His people.

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“Scripture Alone.” The Bible alone is the Word of God. It contains everything one needs for salvation and godly living (2 Peter 1:3-4, 20)

God's works and the Lord Jesus Christ

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Jesus IS God ... there is no "and" .... they are one ... they are in perfect harmony with one another.

Jesus overcame sin (transgression of the law) the wages of sin is death (Jesus overcame this) there can not be remission of sins unless blood is shed ... blood shed by animal sacrifice is not adequate ... the shedding of Jesus blood is. Jesus did all and then turns around to offer salvation as a gift .... Jesus (who IS God) did these things out of Love ... they aren't works ... Love is not a work. Salvation is a gift we receive through faith. Faith is believing all what is written in the Bible is truth. "Thy word is truth".

God are those known by Saint Timothy since his childhood, which are the texts of the Old Testament

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Paul wrote that the Scriptures “are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 3:15). However, there’s no magic in the Scriptures themselves. They bring eternal life only as we find Jesus Christ in them (John 5:39). But, of course, we can find Him there only if we’re looking if we’re reading and studying the stories about Him.

When Jesus announced to the disciples that He would go to the Father, He promised to send them the Holy Spirit. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you" (John 14:26, NKJV).

The holy spirit reminds us of the teachings of Jesus ... those teachings are in the bible ... not Saint Timothys writings or anyone else.

The Holy Spirit works in the hearts of all of mankind drawing one to Jesus ... one either responds or not.

It's ALL about Jesus and His teachings .... Jesus taught from the OT ... the entire bible contains what He wanted mankind to know about HIM.

The bible is divinely inspired ... not the writings of others.

Luke 24:44-48 – “Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.

I encourage people to study the bible for themselves ... as one does ... it's amazing how the Holy Spirit will give light ... it's a lifetime journey and one well worth taking.

eleos1954 said:

Despite the belief of the Catholic Church, the authoritative teachings of the apostles are found solely in Scripture, not in apostolic tradition. Christians do not have to turn to early church writings to read and interpret the Bible.

The Bible alone is the only authority in a Christian’s life. Men like Irenaeus and Origen provide insight into the teachings of the early church, but their writings are not inspired and sometimes even contain faulty theology. In contrast, Scripture contains what the apostles explicitly passed down for the instruction and teaching of the church (1 Corinthians 15:3–4; 2 Timothy 3:16–17; 2 Peter 1:16, 20–21). Traditions passed down through the first few centuries of church history were not inspired.

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Such beliefs are not found in the Bible.

Akita Suggagaki said:

Maybe the problem is referring to scripter as The Word OF God. Isn't that tantamount to "God"?

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I had a pastor that preferred to talk about Christ as the Word of God, and the bible as an inspired witness to the Word.

Xeno.of.athens said:

It has been stated that the Bible is God, which, although not as heretical as it may sound, still raises questions about the depth of this belief among Protestants. For Catholics, such a statement is profoundly incorrect and would never be uttered, as they do not hold the belief that the Bible is God.

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I have been a protestant for a handful of decades and have never heard anyone state the bible is God. That is heretical.

Having said that, there are some protestants who (in my opinion) treat the bible as if it were God. It can become an Idol, just like anything.

Xeno.of.athens said:

One distinct aspect of the Mass, compared to a typical Protestant church service, is that the 'sermon' is brief and not the focal point of worship. In the Mass, a typical homily lasts 10 to 15 minutes and often consists of commentary or lessons from the Gospel reading. The central act of worship is the Liturgy of the Holy Eucharist, which is the second major part of the Mass, following the Liturgy of the Word. It is the act of Communion, rather than the homily, that is viewed as most edifying for the faithful.

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As a Catholic ex-Protestant I would like Catholic homilies to sometimes contain more meat. They can be brief to the point of being almost inconsequential.

I agree the Eucharist should be the focus of the liturgy, but at the same time there is room for improvement in Catholic preaching. I think the Catholic Church could learn a bit from some Protestant preachers.

When I was Presbyterian the pastor gave very challenging sermons (to use their term), and I've heard some good ones from my wife's Baptist pastors from time to time.