Biblical Salvation

C- Conditional Salvation
Mark 1:14. Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, 15. and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
Luke 15:7. "I tell you that in the same way, there will be {more} joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Acts 17: 30. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
II Peter 3: 9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Acts 16: 30. and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31. They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Romans 4:5. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Romans 10:9. that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10. for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
I Corinthians 1:21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not {come to} know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.


U- Unlimited Atonement
John 1: 4. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6. There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7. He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.
John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. )
John 12:32. "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.";
John 12:47. "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I Timothy 2: 6. who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony {given} at the proper time.
I Timothy 4:10. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Hebrews 2:9. But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, {namely,} Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
II Peter 2:1. But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
I John 2: 2. and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for {those of} the whole world


R- Resistible Grace
Acts 28: 24. Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe.
Acts 17:0. "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all {people} everywhere should repent,
John 5:40. and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
II Peter 3:9. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Luke 7:30. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Acts 7:51. "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
Matthew 23:37. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
John 7:17. "If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or {whether} I speak from Myself.


E - Eternal Security
John 10:9. "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. 30. "I and the Father are one."
John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day
John 14:16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
II Corinthians 1: 22. who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 4:30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
Philippians 1: 6. {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
I Peter 1: 5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


D- Delivered from being Dead in Trespasses and sin
1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, 7. so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {salvation is} the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Romans 5: 20. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21. so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin. 11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8: 10. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
II Corinthians 5: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
I Corinthians 15:56. The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
57. but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Galatians 3:22. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe
Ephesians 1: 19. namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

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What if I were to say:

If it is non-Arminian it is funny how much it resembles the points of the Remonstrances. Which, by the way were rejected as heresy.

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God Bless

Till all are one.

Please start acting like adults and cease with the personal cheap-shots otherwise this thread will be locked permanently.

Jipsah said:

Let's start from baseline, then. You have said before, if I'm not too mistaken, that the idea of predestination is unscriptural. We Calvinists believe that since predestination is explicitly spoken of in Scriptural, then not only is it Scriptural, it's unarguably true.

Here's the Scripture that Free Willies like least, so we may as well go there at once:

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Now I'm going to start with two assumptions here. The first is that since this letter has been translated from the Greek into English by a great variety of people who had nothing in common except that they were presumably scholars of the Greek language, and since they have, at least in every translation that I've read, said pretty much the same thing, that the English translation used here won't benefit any from analysis by rank amateurs like ourselves. The second assumption is that the English words used here conform to standard dictionary definitions and are not subject to any personal re-interpretation.

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Fair enough.

Jipsah said:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will

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The also is the key. KAI in the greek, it is there and it is unmistakeable. And it changes the whole meaning of this chapter. If you read Sproul or Luther or any number of predestination authors you'll find they skip over this word entirely or at the very best give it a cursory look. But this passage, combined with the ones before and after, and the rest of this epistle and Romans for that matter sets the whole matter straight. Paul who, as you know, was a jewish zealot, a jew among jews, a Christian-killer, knew that for as long as tradition held, God had picked out Israel as His chosen people. He had chosen (or predestined) a select few to be His saved elect and had therefore left the vast majority of humanity unchosen. The major problem with this belief as jews then and now know is that it is irreconcilable with the God of the scriptures. But then why is it there, seemingly?

Because God is a lot smarter than us. IF you look back in the OT you'll find that it does not say God chose Israel for Heaven AND ALL THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR DAMNATION. The israelites only read that second part into the scriptures! Well, logically, how could God choose some and the ones not chosen still not be left for eternal damnation?!?! Paul understands the answer and he gives it here in the first chapter of Ephesians.

Paul tells us in verse 11, and throughout much of the NT for that matter, that we (gentiles) WERE chosen, just in a different way, through Christ! Where Israel were the natural sons of God, gentiles were adopted to be sons! But it is very important to note, and Paul notes it over and over again, that he is not creating new ideas after thousands upon thousands of years of jewish tradition. You can imagine how the Rabbis of the day would have taken to the revelation that Paul received, this clearing up of the great mystery. They wuold have revolted, beat him, threatened to kill him! Paul had to teach them that this was not some new-fangled ideas he had come up with all on his own, no this was God's eternal plan. Laid out before the foundation of the Earth, that while man might be blind and not see it, and while Israel might think herself greatest of nations on the Earth, this did nt mean that God loved any of His other children any less!

If Israel believed they were chosen, or predestined, Paul reasoned that all men were chosen/predestined. Now Christians have come along through teachers such as Augustine, and Pelagius, Erasmus and Luther, Calvin and Arminius and have gone back to the same old original error of pridefulness. THe same error that Israel comitted, pridefulness that God had chosen them, that they were special among man. The same error that made sure of Christ's crucifixtion.

Jispah, it is true that the word predestination is in scripture, but the understanding of what Paul said is what is so sorely missed.

If Israel believed they were chosen, or predestined, Paul reasoned that all men were chosen/predestined. Now Christians have come along through teachers such as Augustine, and Pelagius, Erasmus and Luther, Calvin and Arminius and have gone back to the same old original error of pridefulness. THe same error that Israel comitted, pridefulness that God had chosen them, that they were special among man. The same error that made sure of Christ's crucifixtion.

Jispah, it is true that the word predestination is in scripture, but the understanding of what Paul said is what is so sorely missed.

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Let me quote W. Stanford Reid:

"The doctrine of predestination as formulated in the history of the Christian church by such theologians as Augustine of Hippo and John Calvin has been a constant cause of discussion and controversy, for many Christians have been unwilling to accept it in any form. Pelagius in the early church and John Wesley in the eighteenth century provide two examples of those who had no use for such teaching. This division concerning the doctrine has continued down to the present.
The doctrine of predestination has both a wider and a narrower aspect. In its wider reference it refers to the fact that the Triune God foreordains whatsoever comes to pass (Ephesians 1:11,22; cf. Psalm 2). From all eternity God has sovereignly determined whatsoever shall happen in history. The narrower aspect or use of the term is that God from all eternity has chosen a body of people for himself, that they should be brought into eternal fellowship with him, while at the same time he has ordained that the rest of humanity should be allowed to go their own way, which is the way of sin, to ultimate eternal punishment. These are known as the doctrines of election and reprobation. While some may accept the idea of God choosing some to eternal life, they reject completely any idea of a decree of reprobation (Romans 9:16-19).
In the Scriptures there is not one term in either the Hebrew or the Greek which encompasses the term "predestination." In the OT a number of words indicate the divine plan and purpose: עֵצָה ‘etsah (counsel, Jeremiah 49:20; 50:45; Micah 4:12); יָעַץ ya‘ats (to purpose, Isaiah 14:24,26-27; 19:12; 23:9); and בָּחַר bachar (to choose, Numbers 16:5,7; Deuteronomy 4:37; 10:15; Isaiah 41:8; Ezekiel 20:5). In the NT there are even more words which have the meaning of predestine (προοριζω proorizo, Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:5,11), elect (εκλεκτος eklektos, Matthew 24:22 ff.; Romans 8:33; Colossians 3:12), and to choose (αἱρεομαι haireomai, 2 Thessalonians 2:13; εκλεγομαι eklegomai, 1 Corinthians 1:27 ff.; Ephesians 1:4). But the doctrine does not depend upon the use of a few words, for as one studies the Bible as a whole this doctrine is seen to be central to much of the teaching of both testaments.
The foundation of the doctrine of predestination is the biblical doctrine of God. He is the Eternal One, above and beyond time and space, for there never was a time when he did not exist, so he is not subject to changes of time and place (Malachi 3:6; Romans 1:20-21; Deuteronomy 33:27; Isaiah 57:15). Furthermore, God is sovereign over all things as the Creator, Sustainer, and Ruler of the universe. He is Lord over all (Daniel 4:34-35; Isaiah 45:1 ff.; Romans 9:17 ff.; Ephesians 1:11). God is also sovereignly righteous, so that all that he does is according to the perfection of his nature (Jeremiah 23:6; 33:16; Romans 1:17; 10:3; 2 Peter 1:1). In eternity he sovereignly established his own plan and purpose, which is far above anything that man can think of, conceive, or understand. Man, therefore, may know God's plan only as he reveals it (Jeremiah 23:18; Deuteronomy 29:29; Psalm 33:11; Isaiah 46:10; 55:7 ff.; Hebrews 6:17).
God has revealed his counsel to men, insofar as it was necessary for them to know it, through the prophets of the OT, through the apostolic writers of the NT, but preeminently through his Son Jesus Christ, to whom both prophets and apostles have borne witness. It was by divine revelation that the prophets could point forward to the coming of the Redeemer (Genesis 3:15; Deuteronomy 18:15; Isaiah 53:1; Malachi 4:2; Hebrews 1:1 ff.), and it was the apostles who could bear witness to him who had come and explain the meaning of his life, death, resurrection, and ascension (Acts 2:22 ff.; John 20:30 ff.) Therefore, human beings are limited in their understanding of God's purpose to what he has revealed to them, and the ultimate meanings, purposes, and plans must remain a mystery. Furthermore, because of God's infinitude, eternality, unchanging being, wisdom, power, justice, righteousness, and truth, man simply could not understand him, even should he reveal himself fully and completely to them. This means that God's relationship to time and space cannot be comprehended by spacial-temporal beings, for they do not even know the meaning of eternity (cf. Isaiah 26:12 ff.; Daniel 4:24 ff.; Acts 2:22 ff.). This ultimate mystery of the being of God must be kept in mind when studying biblical doctrine.
At this point the question arises of the possibility of individual freedom and responsibility if God is absolutely sovereign. How can these things be? Yet the Scriptures repeatedly assert both. Joseph's remarks to his brothers and Peter's statement concerning Christ's crucifixion highlight this fact (Genesis 45:4 ff.; Acts 2:23). Man, in carrying out God's plan, even unintentionally, does so responsibly and freely.
Those who refuse to accept the biblical teaching are faced with the necessity of providing some other explanation. Some Christians attempt to combine God's sovereignty with human independence, but have the difficulty of explaining both the statements in the Bible and also their belief in God's saving work in Jesus Christ. Non-Christians have two choices. They can posit an ultimate chance, which destroys any possibility of human responsibility (for there is no one to whom to be responsible), of logical thought, and thus of scientific knowledge. The other alternative is that of a complete determinism which results in much the same outcome, for it is but solidified chance. Although the biblical point of view cannot be fully rationalized according to our temporal-spacial laws, it is the only one which makes any responsibility or freedom possible.
To understand the biblical teaching concerning predestination, we must commence with the account of man's fall, which was part of God's eternal plan. At the same time, as Paul points out in Romans 1:18 ff., man's refusal to acknowledge God as sovereign and his willful blindness to God's commands brought upon him God's wrath and condemnation. Basically, therefore, all human beings are corrupt because they refuse to acknowledge that God is Lord and that they themselves are only creatures. Yet despite human disobedience and rebellion, God has not let his creatures go. On the one hand he has restrained their sinfulness by his grace, so that even the sinners of this world have accomplished much that is good and true. On the other hand, as soon as man sinned, God promised a redeemer who would crush the tempter and bring restoration (Genesis 3:15). Thus the purpose of redemption was woven inextricably into the fabric of human history from the beginning.
Because of the sinfulness of the creature, however, the creature would not freely seek peace or reconciliation with him who is the Creator. This is shown in the story of Cain, the song of Lamech, and in the sinfulness of antediluvian society. Yet at the same time there was a faithful minority descending from Seth to Noah, who was called to survive the flood and carry on the line of those who were obedient and trusted in God's promise of redemption. One of this line was Abraham, whom God called out of Ur of the Chaldees, and through the descendants of his grandson Jacob established Israel as his people in the pre-Christian world. All this was the result of divine grace which was summed up in Jehovah's covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Genesis 12). Although up to this time little is said in Genesis about God's election and reprobation, when it came to the differentiation between Jacob and Esau it was made quite clear that even before their birth Jacob was chosen and Esau rejected, even though they were twins (Genesis 25:19 ff.; Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:10 ff.). Here we find the first clear statement of the doctrine of double predestination.
Throughout the OT the doctrine of election is set forth with increasing clarity. On the one hand it is stated that Israel was chosen, not because of anything it had to offer, but solely because of the grace of God and by his sovereign choice (Deuteronomy 7:7 ff.; Isaiah 41:8-9; Ezekiel 20:5). Furthermore, from both Israel and other nations God freely chose individuals who would do his will in history for the blessing of Israel (1 Sam 16:1 ff.; Isaiah 45:1 ff.; 1 Chronicles 28:1 ff.). On the other hand, not all Israel was of the elect, but only a faithful remnant whom God had chosen (Isaiah 1:9; 10:20 ff.; 11:11 ff.; Jeremiah 23:3; 31:7). These Paul calls "a remnant according to the election of grace" (Romans 11:5). Those not of the elect remnant were rejected because of their sin to suffer ultimate punishment.
Throughout the OT there is also a constant reference to One who would come to redeem God's people, not only Israel but his elect from every race and tribe. While there are foreshadowings of this universal election and redemption in the histories of such individuals as Ruth and Naaman, the prophets set forth the universality of God's electing grace very clearly (Isaiah 11:10; 56; Micah 5:8; Romans 9:24,30; 11:12-13; Acts 15:1). All those elected and predestined to become God's people, both Jew and Gentile, would indeed enter the covenant relationship. But they would do so only through the One who would be the elect Mediator (Isaiah 42:1 ff.; 53:1 ff.; cf. Matthew 12:18).
In the NT the OT doctrines of election and predestination are expanded and clarified. There was no attempt to reject or alter them, but they are given a more clearly universal scope. Christ claimed that he was the mediator spoken of in the OT, and that to him the Father had given his elect people (Mark 1:15; Luke 4:21; John 5:39; 10:14 ff.). Furthermore, he stated very clearly that he had come to lay down his life as redeemer for his people. This is the theme of both his sermon in John 10 and his prayer for his own in John 17. He promised that his people would all come to him and would persevere in their faith unto eternal life (John 6:39,65; 10:28 ff.). True, as the incarnate Son of God his righteousness was such that his life, death, and resurrection were sufficient in their merits for all men, but as he himself pointed out, his mediatorial work was directed to the salvation of his people only (John 17). In this he was fulfilling the teaching of the OT.
Such was also the position of the apostles. The book of Acts gives a number of examples of apostolic teaching on this matter. In his sermon at Pentecost, Peter gives a clear indication of the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man (Acts 2:14 ff.). The speech of Stephen in chapter 7, Peter's call to witness to Cornelius (10:24 ff.), and various other passages present the same doctrines. In Peter's and John's letters and in the Apocalypse these themes of God's sovereignty, man's responsibility, and God's election and predestination of people reappear constantly.
The apostolic writer who gives the clearest exposition of the doctrine, however, is Paul. While he refers to the doctrine of predestination in passing in a number of places, he expounds the doctrine in detail in Romans 8:29-11:36 and throws further light on it in Ephesians 1. In these passages he stresses the hopeless condition of man in his sinfulness and the fact that because of man's disobedience and rebellion God not only turns from him but hardens him in his sinfulness (Romans 9:14 ff.). At the same time, however, he reaches out and draws to himself those whom he has chosen form all eternity, redeeming and justifying them in Jesus Christ (Romans 10:11 ff.; Ephesians 1:4 ff.). Yet in all of this is the mystery of God's sovereign action and man's responsibility (Romans 9:19; 11:33). And in all things the glory of God's righteousness is made manifest (Romans 9:16 ff.).

Continued...

These doctrines have continued to raise questions ever since the days of the apostles, but especially since the Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century, when they were formulated most precisely. Despite their biblical basis both Christians and non-Christians have rejected them on various grounds. If all human beings are sinners and God is sovereign, then he must be the author of sin and is unjust in punishing anyone. Furthermore, what is the basis upon which God makes his choice? Is he not arbitrary; and if not, is he not then a respecter of persons? If these doctrines are true, do they not destroy any desire, even any necessity, for a human being to seek to live a moral life, to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with God? All these questions are put forward, and many of those who do so feel that they have now answered and condemned the doctrines effectively. They forget, however, that these question were all raised in the time of Christ and the apostles (John 10:19 ff.; Romans 9:19 ff.).
That these doctrines are set forth in both testaments would seem to be clear, along with great stress upon God's sovereign righteousness and holiness. But no further explanation is offered, and beyond what the Scriptures have to say finite man cannot go and, if he accepts the authority of the Bible as God's Word, will not wish to go. All one can say is what Job said when rebuked by God (Job 42:1-6) or what Paul said when closing his exposition of these doctrines (Romans 11:33-36). God's wisdom and grace are beyond every creature's comprehension or understanding. One can but bow in worship and praise. Those who do so have within them a sense of comfort and strength which is not their own, but which is a gift of God to enable them to face the world with confidence and peace of mind.
BIBLIOGRAPHY. L. Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination; J. Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion 3:21-24 and The Eternal Predestination of God; C. Hodge, Systematic Theology, III, ch. 1; J. Murray, Calvin on Scripture and Divine Sovereignty, ch. 3, B. B. Warfield, Biblical Doctrines."

http://www.bible-researcher.com/predestination.html

And everybody has it wrong.

Dr. Evil said:

Yea, right

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God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean said:

And everybody has it wrong.

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Well, if by everybody you mean the theologians who follow this doctrine, then yes, everybody got it wrong. What a shame, huh? And to think they've convinced so many people too! Well, I'll come back and I'll definitely go through this rather large text for you so we can shed some light on various jumped-to conclusions.

Bob L said:

Well, if by everybody you mean the theologians who follow this doctrine, then yes, everybody got it wrong. What a shame, huh? And to think they've convinced so many people too! Well, I'll come back and I'll definitely go through this rather large text for you so we can shed some light on various jumped-to conclusions.

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So, you think "predestination" was not taught in the OT either?



Very interesting.

God Bless

Till all are one.

eph 4:13

Is that all you can do , bash Calvinists over and over again? nearly every post is a screed against Calvinists, calling them names, and accusing them of all sorts of sin.

Since when are Christians enjoined to be accusers of the brethren?

That job belongs to our enemy, and the enemy is not other Christians.

easly believism...

1 cor 1:18--25 god's foolishness is wiser than men

GordonSlocum said:

14. Then we will no longer be like children, forever changing our minds about what we believe because someone has told us something different or because someone has cleverly lied to us and made the lie sound like the truth. (This is Calvinism, RT, and Tuliology)
15. Instead, we will hold to the truth in love, becoming more and more in every way like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.
16. Under his direction, the whole body is fitted together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

(Red Emphasis and commentary mine, NLT)

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Adding to the Word? Why am I not surprised....

Stop being an accuser of the brethren.

nobdysfool said:

Adding to the Word? Why am I not surprised....

Stop being an accuser of the brethren.

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Do you read? The mods and others have told you to knock it off...

16. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
17. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

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I have yet to see an anticalvinist interpretation drawn from this verse logically.

It is perfectly calvinistic to say that whoever believes, from anywhere in the world, will be saved.

The problem is that if you want to make somthing more of "God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it" than the fact value interpretation that anyone from anywhere in the world who believes will be saved, you cannot stop from becoming a universalist. Jesus did not actually save everyone.

And further, "He died that whoever believes may be saved" is different from "he died that we can be saved if we provide our own faith."

A Brother In Christ said:

easly believism...

1 cor 1:18--25 god's foolishness is wiser than men

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16. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
17. God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.

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yet who gives hears to hear.... mk 4:9-12
who give increase ... 1 cor 3:5-8
How is one born from above... will of God ...John 1:13

19. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20. teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

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2 cor 4:3-6 cannot teach satan children only God's

why does one go to hell.... for not believing John 8:24

What must I do to be saved? Believe

Two people talking one ask the other the question and the answer is Believe.

How simple and anti Calvinistic.

4. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. This desire flies in the face of Calvin's false teaching.

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yet who gives hears to hear.... mk 4:9-12
who give increase ... 1 cor 3:5-8
How is one born from above... will of God ...John 1:13


if God gives the increase
God gives the gift
God gives the promises
God gives the ears
God takes off the blinders

what is there for us to do but believe.

Question is why do people not believe... Not God's chosen ones ...