Bible

[Godslilgurlalways]

I was wondering do anabaptist should a bible? If so I was wondering if you don't mind if you could tell me what type of bible

Also do baptist and anabaptist believe just about the same things

 

[MrJim]

You should be reading your bible. I'm not sure what the preference is around here, I mostly use a KJV or NKJV and my wife uses an Amplified.

I'd stay away from the "Message" and "Living" bibles for study since they aren't the best translations.

Biggest thing here is to READ and LIVE what ya read, ask questions and follow the Holy Spirit's leading.

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

You should be reading your bible. I'm not sure what the preference is around here, I mostly use a KJV or NKJV and my wife uses an Amplified.

I'd stay away from the "Message" and "Living" bibles for study since they aren't the best translations.

Biggest thing here is to READ and LIVE what ya read, ask questions and follow the Holy Spirit's leading.

Thanks I do use my bible but wondered if Anabaptist use bibles was going to post that in the other one but forgot

I use KJV myself,NKJV and NIV sometimes too

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

I have heard of the message and living bible (well I saw them at the gateway bible site) but never read anythign about it

 

[RickH]

Hi Godslilgurlalways,
A lot of people have misconceptions about anabaptist. There are several different branches with a wide variety of practices. For example, if you go to a "contemporary" of "modern" Mennonite church, you really would find that people dress and worship like several other denominations. The main difference, though, would be an emphasis on non-resistance and loving one another as yourself. Jesus told us that the two greatest commandments were to love God with all of our heart and to love one another as we love ourselves (Mark 12:28-31) and we try our best to adhere to that, even those who would like to do harm to us.
The bigger difference is if you go to a "conservative" or even "old order" church. This is where you start seeing the difference in dress and such. It really depends on a persons convictions on what type of church they attend.
I agree with Menno on which Bibles to stay away from if you like serious study. I have a few that I reference. They are the KJV, NKJV, NIV and Amplified. This is in no way saying that you need to rush out and buy any of the Bibles that I mentioned.
There are a couple of good web sites for more information. I tried to put the links into this message, but evidently I need to have at least 15 posts to allow me to put them in. For a good source on modern or contemporary Mennonites try going to Google and doing a search for thirdway cafe. And for a view for the conservatives, try going to Google and do a search for anabaptists. The site I intended to post should be the first search result.
God bless!
Rick

 

[MrJim]

Hi Godslilgurlalways,
A lot of people have misconceptions about anabaptist. There are several different branches with a wide variety of practices. For example, if you go to a "contemporary" of "modern" Mennonite church, you really would find that people dress and worship like several other denominations.
Rick

Yeah, the last mennonite church I visited I thought the drums & guitars were too loud

 

[RickH]

Yeah, the last mennonite church I visited I thought the drums & guitars were too loud

LOL.. I don't know why, but when I am listening to music for entertainment, I like it up beat with tempo, but during worship I like it without instruments. The harmony within the congregation is just awesome this way.

 

[MrJim]

LOL.. I don't know why, but when I am listening to music for entertainment, I like it up beat with tempo, but during worship I like it without instruments. The harmony within the congregation is just awesome this way.

I agree, some of the mennonite churches around here though like it THUMPIN' loud...

 

[Danfrey]

As far as Bibles go, I like my NKJV, but I use a KJV when I am attending a church that uses only the KJV. I own an NIV but use it very little. I also use a Setuagint for Old Testament studies, which is a slightly different Old Testament version.

And, since the topic strayed a little into the realm of music, I prefer old hymns with an upbeat tempo and plenty of hand clapping. I guess my worship style comes from my Pentecostal roots. I am not fond of 4 part harmony as I find it very distracting, but this is a personal preference not a theological stance. Give me some unison, hymns with lots of hand clapping and I am just fine. It is a little hard to find that in Semi-Conservative Mennonite circles though

 

[MrJim]

As far as Bibles go, I like my NKJV, but I use a KJV when I am attending a church that uses only the KJV. I own an NIV but use it very little. I also use a Setuagint for Old Testament studies, which is a slightly different Old Testament version.

And, since the topic strayed a little into the realm of music, I prefer old hymns with an upbeat tempo and plenty of hand clapping. I guess my worship style comes from my Pentecostal roots. I am not fond of 4 part harmony as I find it very distracting, but this is a personal preference not a theological stance. Give me some unison, hymns with lots of hand clapping and I am just fine. It is a little hard to find that in Semi-Conservative Mennonite circles though

Huh, I'd never had you pegged as a clapper...if ya clap ya gotta sway a little too ya know.

I can't clap, I have no rhythm...

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Huh, I'd never had you pegged as a clapper...if ya clap ya gotta sway a little too ya know.

I can't clap, I have no rhythm...

I like to sway,clap and sing

I like worship music not too loud where it gives you a headach but not too soft where you can't hear it It also depends on the type of song

 

[ZiSunka]

I'd stay away from the "Message" and "Living" bibles for study since they aren't the best translations.

I'd say that if those are the Bibles that make sense to you, you should read those.

It's much worse to have a Bible you can't read and understand, than to read and understand a Bible that isn't a word-for-word translation.

A lot of times, the Message or Living Bible has helped me make sense of a passage that gets completely butchered in the KJV because of the archaic language.

 

[MrJim]

I'd say that if those are the Bibles that make sense to you, you should read those.

It's much worse to have a Bible you can't read and understand, than to read and understand a Bible that isn't a word-for-word translation.

A lot of times, the Message or Living Bible has helped me make sense of a passage that gets completely butchered in the KJV because of the archaic language.

Yeah, ya gotta good point there, they can be like a preacher-maybe explaining things better.

Toss out an example for us...it'd be a good lesson

 

[ZiSunka]

1 Remind the people to respect the government and be law-abiding, always ready to lend a helping hand 2 No insults, no fights. God's people should be bighearted and courteous. 3 It wasn't so long ago that we ourselves were stupid and stubborn, dupes of sin, ordered every which way by our glands, going around with a chip on our shoulder, hated and hating back. 4 But when God, our kind and loving Savior God, stepped in, 5 he saved us from all that. It was all his doing; we had nothing to do with it. He gave us a good bath, and we came out of it new people, washed inside and out by the Holy Spirit. 6 Our Savior Jesus poured out new life so generously. 7 God's gift has restored our relationship with him and given us back our lives. And there's more life to come - an eternity of life! 8 You can count on this.

OR

1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But after that the kindness and love F10 of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly F11 through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

OR

14 Dear friends, do you think you'll get anywhere in this if you learn all the right words but never do anything? Does merely talking about faith indicate that a person really has it?

 

[RickH]

I'd say that if those are the Bibles that make sense to you, you should read those.

It's much worse to have a Bible you can't read and understand, than to read and understand a Bible that isn't a word-for-word translation.

A lot of times, the Message or Living Bible has helped me make sense of a passage that gets completely butchered in the KJV because of the archaic language.

I really do agree with you for the most part on this, however, I do think that we need to study diligently and evaluate the accuracy of the Bibles that we choose. In my very humbled opinion, there are some Bible versions that do not correctly relay the intentions of the original texts. Would you agree with me that "The Message" often takes the politically correct road? For example, gender neutralness? Please do not take this as an attack of any sort, I would just like good Christian discussion about this. The following are some examples. I am conservative so I know a lot of people may disagree with my beliefs and I would rather not debate beliefs but rather the accuracy of translations.

NKJV 1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

The Message 1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do
12 They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else

There are more than this, but to me, The Message's reading is not within the intent of the original writings. Especially verse 12.

With Christ's love,
Rick

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

Yeah, ya gotta good point there, they can be like a preacher-maybe explaining things better.

Toss out an example for us...it'd be a good lesson

I agree it is a good lesson

Also you want to make sure that when you compare both tht it's not changing the meaning

 

[ZiSunka]

The following are some examples. I am conservative so I know a lot of people may disagree with my beliefs and I would rather not debate beliefs but rather the accuracy of translations.

NKJV 1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

The Message 1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 I don't let women take over and tell the men what to do
12 They should study to be quiet and obedient along with everyone else

There are more than this, but to me, The Message's reading is not within the intent of the original writings. Especially verse 12.

With Christ's love,
Rick

Actually, most theologians agree that that particular passage's meaning is closer to the message than to the current meaning of the KJV words. The Elizabethan words don't mean the same as they do now, plus the sentence structure is awkward and tends to lend itself to misunderstanding. In the KJV, Paul comes off as mysogynistic and harsh, which we know wouldn't be in keeping with the teachings of Jesus, who honored women and was kind. No one can be mysogynistic and harsh and consider themselves a disciple of Christ.

The passage you gave talks about order in worship services. Women in that congregation took equality in Christ to mean that they didn't have to submit themselves to the leadership of the church or be respectful during services. Paul is telling them that equality doesn't mean they can act up and be disruptive.

Women were being disruptive by talking during the teaching part of the meeting, then excusing themselves by saying they were just discussing the sermon and asking questions and teaching each other. That excuse didn't cut it with Paul. He told the women to be respectful by keeping quiet. He told them if they wanted to have a discussion, they should save up their questions and ask their husbands at home, since the men were sitting quietly and paying attention, they knew things the women were missing by gabbing instead of listening.

 

[RickH]

I guess that we could "point/counterpoint" this theology and others but it is not my nature. Things tend to get argumentative, so I will abstain. I believe that we may disagree on more than this, but I doubt it if they are salvation issues because they involve more works than faith.
My only point was that you should research any writings before jumping in. In this case the particular Bible fits your beliefs and not mine, so we both use our judgements and that is fine.
I know that I am going out on a limb here and am in no way implying that you or anyone else here condones it, but I would like to use the Jehovah's Witness' as an example. They say their Bible is easier to read and more accurate, but a good Christian would research it, compare it to other translations and compare some of it to the actual Greek and Hebrew if you have the resources available, as many of us do.
So with that said, I want to reiterate that I am not trying to be argumentative, I know that it is hard to tell when we are writing over the internet than in person.
God bless and love ya'.
Rick

 

[ZiSunka]

No one here is suggesting that all Bibles are equal.

Part of evaluating a Bible should be that it fits the original intent of the writer, not the translator.

Since it's not possible that Paul was a mean woman-hater, since that would be adverse to Christ's teachings and would make Paul's writings false, it has to be that our understanding of that passage is flaw, probably because of the archaic language used in the KJV. If all you read is the KJV, you're going to get the impression that women shouldn't speak in church at all, which some churches do indeed teach, and that women have an inferior intelligence and can't understand what they study. If you round out your reading with other translations in modern language, you are going to get a better understanding of what Paul was trying to say. You don't have to use the message, and I would never use that for my only Bible, you can use any orthodox translation translated by reputable people.

The NWT (JW's Bible) was translated by a dentist with no training in ancient languages or Bible-based theology. I could do as good a job as he did.

Investigate the translators as well as the translation before choosing which Bible will be your primary source or your supplemental sources.

 

[RickH]

I agree 100%
If we go back to the beginning of the conversation you will find that I did not say never read Bibles like "The Message" I said that you should not use them for serious study. If you have a copy of The Message read the section titled "Preface: To the Reader". In the last paragraph you will find that the author himself suggests not using it for study and advises it is not intended to replace study Bibles!
Another reason that I do not like studying with Bibles classified as "Reading Bibles" is because they are usually written/translated by one person, as is The Message. I would rather put my trust in a translation that used over 100 scholars from different backgrounds that came to agreement on the intent of the original author.
We obviously do not agree on some things, but I'll see you in Heaven! Please feel free to reply, and I will earnestly read what you have to say, but I am going to end my part of the discussion. The thread should stay on topic and I catch myself having to erase things that I have typed because it could be taken wrongly or opening up a debate.
See you later, God bless,
Rick