Bible contradictions?

[Buy Bologna]

Best thing I can think of is I was told when non-believers want to argue/debate, they don't really care if you have the answers because it would mean they would have to stop sinning if God was real. And more importantly I was told you can't expect them to see it like a believer does.

I dont want to argue. All I want is reasoning and answers.

Stop sinning? I never really started. I don't do anything wrong other than the imperfections any christian would commit.

I have no idea how to put this correctly but when you read the bible God will show you what it means, things will make sense. Wihtout sounding silly, its like being given the book to decode and unlock a secret message. Not all of the messages will make sense to a non believer until they truly believe in God.

Of course some would say, they are brainwashed and its why they don't see what an athiest does. But question is, if your an athiest, how can you doubt what we are saying about knowing it if you have not been one? Its like saying anyone can be a sniper, without having actually tried to snipe. Of course in this situation, its a bit more complex since you need to truly be a christian, not just accept God and be like "Ok, show me what I don't understand now!".

I was once a very devout christian.

My upbringing I prayed throughout the day 'more times than i could count' as if he was my friend. With sincerity. I yes I believed it and would die for it.

My parents to this day think I'm just 'lost' and thinking ' the prodigal son will return.'

I'm converted, i guess you could say.

Anyway, unless you have anything to say about these contradictions then maybe we could continue this in another thread/subject.

 

[stiggywiggy]

So it's OK for the bible to have flaws?

OK? For whom? I just typed something indicating that I do not believe it has flaws. You neglected to comment on that, and ask me essentially if I agree with what I just typed.

Was the fact that Jesus got sleepy and had waste materials stored in his colon and may have even struggled to get them out, mean that He was flawed?

No, it means He was a man. He emptied Himself of His deity and took on the imperfections of man. I see the Bible in a similar light. Wholly divine, wholly human.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I would really like to hear your thought on these. Anyway, enough rambling,

Most of the inerrantists can readily make room for scribal errors or some such. No problem. It is still a very hamfisted position to take, that in fact may blind a 'believer' to one or the other nugget within a given text.

Forget about shooting down Christianity by showing one or the other contradiction in the Bible. Those versions of Christianity that would in fact be harmed by errors and contradictions (beyond scribal errors) are hardly worth listening to.

 

[Resha Caner]

It's just the plain simple contradictions.

No offense, but it sounds like you're taking these claims of contradiction at face value without really researching them. Why are those who claim the Bible has contradictions more reliable than those who claim it does not? You haven't really given me something I could work with ... unless I read into your comment about encyclopedias. And, as I said earlier, it often seems lay people think ancient historical events outside the Bible have more "evidence." That is not the case.

Why would the True God use this tactic of using men to speak his word, when this is the same tactic all false religion use.

I don't know. Is there a reason he shouldn't use people? One also needs to consider the prejudice people bring. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

But he doesn't speak directly to us anymore even tho 'god does not change

I don't recall any announcement that God no longer speaks directly.

 

[Merlin]

How many men drew the sword for Israel counted by Joab? 2nd Sam. 24:9 says 800,000. or 1st Chron. 21:5 says 1.1 million.



How much did David pay for the threshing floor? Was it 600 shekels? (1 Chron. 21:25) or was it 50 shekels? (2nd Sam.24:24)


How many men did David's Chief of Kings kill in one encounter? 800? (2nd Sam. 23:8) or 300? (1 Chron.11:11).


I'm excited I can start my own thread now.

I've decided to start one that's just been on my mind lately. It's bible contradictions.

Forget the overall themes like 'God is love and yet violence condoned' and/or 'the trinity, god is one or god is all 3' blah blah blah. That just gets pushed off into the gray area.

Let's just start with some basic, flatout contradictions. Black and white, plain and simple. And since (i assume) we all know basic math I'll go with these.

I would really like to hear your thought on these. Anyway, enough rambling,

It is the belief of many Christians that the bible has no errors as it was originally written and in the original language.
We do not know specifically was written back 3000 years ago.
There are good guesses but we do not know absolutely.
So you can get good guesses here, but no authoritative answers.
Sorry.

 

[Svt4Him]

How many men drew the sword for Israel counted by Joab? 2nd Sam. 24:9 says 800,000. or 1st Chron. 21:5 says 1.1 million.



How much did David pay for the threshing floor? Was it 600 shekels? (1 Chron. 21:25) or was it 50 shekels? (2nd Sam.24:24)


How many men did David's Chief of Kings kill in one encounter? 800? (2nd Sam. 23:8) or 300? (1 Chron.11:11).


I'm excited I can start my own thread now.

I've decided to start one that's just been on my mind lately. It's bible contradictions.

Forget the overall themes like 'God is love and yet violence condoned' and/or 'the trinity, god is one or god is all 3' blah blah blah. That just gets pushed off into the gray area.

Let's just start with some basic, flatout contradictions. Black and white, plain and simple. And since (i assume) we all know basic math I'll go with these.

I would really like to hear your thought on these. Anyway, enough rambling,

Are you going to cite your source here, as this is a PRATT (point refuted a thousand times). But since you bring up the same issues that have been addressed before, at least link to the original source.

 

[Buy Bologna]

Most of the inerrantists

I will not make excuses for errors in the bible. Nor the quran. Nor for Darwins Origin species. and if someone throws you proof then you should darn well question it's merits too.

It is still a very hamfisted position to take, that in fact may blind a 'believer' to one or the other nugget within a given text.

Forget about shooting down Christianity by showing one or the other contradiction in the Bible. Those versions of Christianity that would in fact be harmed by errors and contradictions (beyond scribal errors) are hardly worth listening to.

Then don't listen to them. That's right. Just close your mind and move on. but to me it's important.

It is the belief of many Christians that the bible has no errors as it was originally written and in the original language.
We do not know specifically was written back 3000 years ago.
There are good guesses but we do not know absolutely.
So you can get good guesses here, but no authoritative answers.
Sorry.

Thank you Merlin, you and Resh are the only ones who seem to want to legitimate answer me.

I admire your humble response.

But, do you get what I'm saying? Take your signature for example. The scriptures you quoted. How do you know that that's entirely accurate and those scriptures aren't vulnerable the same scribal errors?

No offense, but it sounds like you're taking these claims of contradiction at face value without really researching them. Why are those who claim the Bible has contradictions more reliable than those who claim it does not? You haven't really given me something I could work with ... unless I read into your comment about encyclopedias. And, as I said earlier, it often seems lay people think ancient historical events outside the Bible have more "evidence." That is not the case.

Maybe i am taking it for face value.

I honestly do not understand how people can claim it doesn't contradict itself. If you want to say scribal errors, fine, but it does.

I mean ask yourself. God has and does (even today?) preform miracles but he doesn't use his holy spirit to prevent scribal errors? Wouldn't you think these are critical?

I don't know. Is there a reason he shouldn't use people? One also needs to consider the prejudice people bring. Consider the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.

Well yes becuz it has the possibility of being tainted over time through error. Which in the general consensus of this thread that is exactly what happened.

I don't recall any announcement that God no longer speaks directly.

Well, when i say speak directly. I mean like if i were standing in front of you and speak directly to you as if we are standing face to face and you can see me and hear me and if i were to shake your hand feel me. He doesn't do that anymore like he did. I mean at least send an representative (angel).


And as far as the links you sent me I honestly haven't had time to read those yet. I just felt i should respond to the, well, reponses

 

[CounselorForChrist]

My problem with people who questions the bible is they often don't care because they think God and the bible is crap to begin with. They just like to stir the pot to cause problems. Like for example at that old forum I went to after debating for awhile someone would say "Well, prove to me Gods real! If you can't then he isn't real!" or something along those lines. They know perfectly well we cannot prove God is real, but they like to antagonize us though.

Althogh there is proof God is real but when mentioned they deny it or find reasons why its not valid. Example, the fact that every prophecy so far has come true about what would happen. Like the relativly more recent one about (forgot number) some number of countries (13?) would come together and form a new currency. Which happens to be the Euro.

They will go straight for the old prophicies that have come true and will say "No one can prove those wer written before a certain event" or something like that. Totally ignoring the current one that have been fufilled. Theres no way to win agaist people that don't really care about proof in the end.

I remember once a some guy tried comparing Gods prophecies to that of Nostradomus. Its like...really? Seeing as almost none of Nostradomuses have come true then hes just a fake. If only one fails to be true then that person is a false prophet. And lets face it Nostra didn't amke well worded ones. He use basic wording so it could sound like anything if you want it to!

 

[Buy Bologna]

My problem with people who questions the bible is they often don't care because they think God and the bible is crap to begin with. They just like to stir the pot to cause problems. Like for example at that old forum I went to after debating for awhile someone would say "Well, prove to me Gods real! If you can't then he isn't real!" or something along those lines. They know perfectly well we cannot prove God is real, but they like to antagonize us though.

Althogh there is proof God is real but when mentioned they deny it or find reasons why its not valid. Example, the fact that every prophecy so far has come true about what would happen. Like the relativly more recent one about (forgot number) some number of countries (13?) would come together and form a new currency. Which happens to be the Euro.

They will go straight for the old prophicies that have come true and will say "No one can prove those wer written before a certain event" or something like that. Totally ignoring the current one that have been fufilled. Theres no way to win agaist people that don't really care about proof in the end.

I remember once a some guy tried comparing Gods prophecies to that of Nostradomus. Its like...really? Seeing as almost none of Nostradomuses have come true then hes just a fake. If only one fails to be true then that person is a false prophet. And lets face it Nostra didn't amke well worded ones. He use basic wording so it could sound like anything if you want it to!

My questions regarding the bible are legit.

Now, do you have any opinion on these 3 I posted the OP?

 

[juvenissun]

How many men drew the sword for Israel counted by Joab? 2nd Sam. 24:9 says 800,000. or 1st Chron. 21:5 says 1.1 million.



How much did David pay for the threshing floor? Was it 600 shekels? (1 Chron. 21:25) or was it 50 shekels? (2nd Sam.24:24)


How many men did David's Chief of Kings kill in one encounter? 800? (2nd Sam. 23:8) or 300? (1 Chron.11:11).


I'm excited I can start my own thread now.

I've decided to start one that's just been on my mind lately. It's bible contradictions.

Forget the overall themes like 'God is love and yet violence condoned' and/or 'the trinity, god is one or god is all 3' blah blah blah. That just gets pushed off into the gray area.

Let's just start with some basic, flatout contradictions. Black and white, plain and simple. And since (i assume) we all know basic math I'll go with these.

I would really like to hear your thought on these. Anyway, enough rambling,

Two points:

1. Your examples apparently shows the inaccuracy of counting. This is not "contradiction", particularly in the meaning of doctrine or teaching. Who could accurately count how many people died in a war or a famine in the old time?

2. There still could be "interpretations" about the difference in number. Resha Caner explained some. And I guess you can easily find more of them by searching the references. It is OK if you don't accept the interpretations. But they are there for you to argue about.

And, you did not exhaust all the "different" recordings about the same event described in the Bible. Particularly in the two Books you compared. In comparison, the difference in number counting is simply peanut. If you rejected the Bible because of these number discrepancies, then simply put down the Bible, don't think about it, and you are free from the trouble. Personally, I don't care about these differences. There are far more important things in the Bible to think about.

When read any book, do not just pick on one minor question from chapter 1 and reject the whole book because of it. Read it through, and start the questioning from the major points of the book. That is the way to learn any thing.

 

[someguy14]

God is perfect.
Holy men of God were moved by The Holy Ghost to write scripture.
A focus on man draws away from God. God is perfect.
When perfection comes, your percieved "faults" vanish.

It is sincerly about God and God alone. For God, Himself, is THE perfection.

 

[KCfromNC]

It's interesting. Most of the responses in this thread are blaming the poster for asking about these issues or even better, questioning his sincerity and honesty in general. Does anyone expect that to be convincing to anyone?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Its because most forums where religious and non-religious people mix don't work well. My best friend is an Athiest. We get along great but try to avoid subjects that might clash. Most people who are not christian get along find with christians. BUt from my years of being on forums, the hardcore non believers like to push their point and cause trouble on forums.

I don't mean that the topic creator is like that, I'm just making a general statement. As soon as I see a non-believer post in a christian forum I questions his motives. Just like when a christian posts in a non-believing forum.

The forum I used to go to was like that. It was centered areound armageddon but has all sorts of subjects and whenever we seen someone make a new topic, we knew the trolls would be out to cause problems (on both sides). Maybe that forum was just a rarity that had such issues and I need to realize not all forums are like that.

I also just never liked the fact non-believers feel we must owe them an explanation. We are mere men, not God. We cannot answer some things that are impossible for us to know. I was always told by my pastor that as a christian you answer to God, not someone who is questioning God. And theres the fact by responding to that person, it may make you question your faith. Which alot of non-believers do on purpose to turn people away from God.

I talk about christanity but I will not force the subject on them. If they do now wish to hear it I respect that. As christians we are not meant to convert everyone we possiby can, we are meant to share the word. To many I know share the word then keep shoving it down peoples throat. THat will not get them to convert, it will only agitate them more. I woldn't want it done to me, so I don't do it to others. Or more so I try not to.

 

[someguy14]

Its because most forums where religious and non-religious people mix don't work well.

It is cause of the title of the thread. Bible contradictions.
All that are lead by The Holy Spirit are aware that The Word of God doesn't contradict itself.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Very true!

 

[Resha Caner]

I honestly do not understand how people can claim it doesn't contradict itself. If you want to say scribal errors, fine, but it does.

Maybe some people in this thread have the opinion that the Bible contradicts itself, but based on the examples you provided, you haven't established that it actually does.

Further, I think you may have missed one of my points about what you are calling a contradiction. Suppose we're watching a football game on TV. A play is executed. The ball carrier (the fullback) is tackled. One ref says he is tackled on the 2 yard line. One ref says he is tackled on the 1 yard line. After repeating the calls of each ref, a commentator concludes that there wasn't a touchdown.

The refs contradicted each other. All the commentator did was report. The commentator did not contradict himself. Further, the conclusion that no touchdown occurred, is valid regardless of the contradiction.

So, the Bible is not contradicting itself by merely reporting human events and then making spiritual conclusions about those events.

Well yes becuz it has the possibility of being tainted over time through error.

So, are you saying God shouldn't have people around when he is revealing himself to people? I just don't see how that could work. It's like a teacher who doesn't want students in the classroom because they're not going to all get 100% on the test.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Revelation 22: 18-19 reveals that indeed unscrupulous men might seek to change scripture. It seems that although God inspired the bible He has not fully protected it from such. He leaves it to us to 'read around' these errors. That said many seeming contradictions can be satisfactorily explained.

 

[juvenissun]

Revelation 22: 18-19 reveals that indeed unscrupulous men might seek to change scripture. It seems that although God inspired the bible He has not fully protected it from such. He leaves it to us to 'read around' these errors. That said many seeming contradictions can be satisfactorily explained.

There are some ways to get around them. But I won't call them "errors". Just like models of weather forecast. Some models may be more accurate, but I won't call other models "wrong".

For example, on one fact which needs a counting, there ARE different ways of counting, and the results may not all be the same. On this regard, the Book of Samuels, Kings and Chronicles are written by different people at different time. I am glad that they presented somewhat different numbers on the counting. Otherwise, I would suspect one simply copied the earlier writing. At that time, even the people were counted by one person or one group, repeated counting would still show different result. Just like you count a thousand of one dollar bills by hand, could you count it correctly every time? Is $998 more accurate than $1020? And, don't forget the dramatic re-count of votes in the Bush/Gore election by the latest technology.

 

[The Paul]

Best thing I can think of is I was told when non-believers want to argue/debate, they don't really care if you have the answers because it would mean they would have to stop sinning if God was real. And more importantly I was told you can't expect them to see it like a believer does.

...did you just pop in to tell people what they actually think?

 

[KCfromNC]

It is cause of the title of the thread. Bible contradictions.
All that are lead by The Holy Spirit are aware that The Word of God doesn't contradict itself.

Yes, it seems that true believers have an unavoidable emotional reaction when their dogma is questioned in a way that they can't answer. That's in line with the behavior I've seen in the past. Doesn't mean it's an actual answer to the questions but it's not uncommon to see it.