Bible and Koran

[johnnywong]

1. Possible
2.temporal lobe epilepsy with hallucinations
3.calculated plot .

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

how can he write such a big book?
did he refer to Hebrew old testament and copy the materials?

 

[West Spiritual Master]

Did devil masquerade as Gabriel to cheat mohamad ?

The Devil cant do this.

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

Why Mohamad said he received revelation word by word from angel Gabriel?
Did he lie?
or he was cheated by Devil?

 

[West Spiritual Master]

Why Mohamad said he received revelation word by word from angel Gabriel?
Did he lie?
or he was cheated by Devil?

Why you think that he would lie? The Devil is a clear enemy of mankind.

 

[Jesus_is_Saint]

Did Mohammad speak true Words of God?
Can we verify that?

 

[Yytz6]

Did Mohammad speak true Words of God?
Can we verify that?

It sounds like you should read the Quran to find some answers. That is, if you want to know the answers.

 

[West Spiritual Master]

Did Mohammad speak true Words of God?
Can we verify that?

Yes, we can verify that

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The Devil cant do this.

2 Corinthians 11:14 [Full Chapter]
That does not surprise us, because even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There were even some of Muhammad’s contemporaries who thought that Satan, or an evil spirit, had taken control of Muhammad. Some examples of which include:

Narrated Jundub bin Sufyan:
Once Allah's Apostle became sick and could not offer his night prayer (Tahajjud) for two or three nights. Then a lady (the wife of Abu Lahab) came and said, "O Muhammad! I think that your Satan has forsaken you, for I have not seen him with you for two or three nights!" On that Allah revealed: 'By the fore-noon, and by the night when it darkens, your Lord (O Muhammad) has neither forsaken you, nor hated you.' (93.1-3) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 475)

One of the Meccan Chiefs told Muhammad that:

… ‘I will make some suggestions, and perhaps you will be able to accept one of them.’ The apostle agreed, and he went on, ‘If what you want is money, we will gather for you of our property so that you may be the richest of us; if want honour, we will make you our chief so that no one can decide anything apart from you; if you want sovereignty, we will make you king, and if this ghost which comes to you, which you see, is such that you cannot get rid of him, we will find a physician for you, and exhaust our means in getting you cured, for OFTEN a familiar spirit gets possession of a man until he can be cured of it,’ or words to that effect…

And:

… No Arab had ever treated his tribe as Muhammad had treated them, and they repeated the charges which have been mentioned on several occasions, If it was money he wanted, they would make him the richest of them all; if it was honour, he should be their prince; if it was sovereignty, they would make him king; if it was a spirit which had got possession of him (they used to call the familiar spirit of the jinn ra’iy), they would exhaust their means in finding medicine to cure him. The Apostle replied he had no such intention… (Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], pp. 132, 133-134; underlined emphasis ours)

Interestingly, there were people such as the cousin of Muhammad’s first wife Khadijah, himself a Christian monk, who knew that Satan could imitate Gabriel:

"Waraqa was dumbfounded at this, and said, ‘If Gabriel has actually placed his feet upon the earth, he has done so for the best of people thereupon. And he never came down for anyone except a prophet. For he is the companion of all the prophets and messengers, the one whom God sends down to them. I believe what you tell me of him. Send for 'Abd Allah's son, so that I may question him, hear what he says and talk to him. I am afraid it may be someone other than Gabriel, for certain devils imitate him and by so doing can mislead and corrupt some men. This can result in a man becoming confused and even crazy whereas before he had been of sound mind.’" (Ibn Kathir, The Life of the Prophet Muhammad (Al-Sira al-Nabawiyya), Volume I, translated by professor Trevor Le Gassick, reviewed by Dr. Ahmed Fareed [Garnet Publishing Limited, 8 Southern Court, south Street Reading RG1 4QS, UK; The Center for Muslim Contribution to Civilization, 1998], pp. 296-297; bold italic emphasis ours)

According to the above data the signs of possession, sorcery, and satanic activity are:

Choking, gasping, spasmodic movements, delirium, and whisperings.
Spitting and blowing (knots).
Eloquent speech.
Bad and evil dreams.
The use of bells.
Now let us turn to the Islamic literature to see if Muhammad manifested any of these features and symptoms.


More at the link: Evidence for Muhammad Being Deceived

 

[Daniel Marsh]

read the link in last post please.

 

[TLSITD]

When you read side by side Bible and Koran,This is very easy to find the problems with Koran .
Why are there so many still believe in Koran.
While Bible has strong external evidence with 44 writers written in 1500 years and Koran only by one people without any witness and written in 26 years ?

Most Muslims don't even understand Arabic, which is supposedly the only language that the Qur'an can be "correctly" understood in. They memorize portions of the Qur'an and don't even understand the words they're reciting.

Many of them don't read the Qur'an, or at least they don't study it, just as many Christians don't study the Bible. The Muslims rely on their immams to tell them what the Qur'an says and what it means. That's why most of them don't realize what the Qur'an and the Haddiths actually teach and what kind of a person their "prophet" actually was.

(Comparing Mohammed with Jesus Christ is quite literally like comparing Satan with God. And the teachings of the book that is supposed to be the final perfection of God's truth revealed to man (a claim the book of Mormon also makes) are so inferior to those of the New Testament that the idea that the Qur'an was an improvement or a correction of what was given to the apostles is utterly absurd, even to people who don't believe in Christ or in the Bible.

Mohammed didn't even get the facts about Biblical figures correct, confusing very basic things like names and periods of time in his ignorance.)

Muslims are largely ignorant of their doctrine and their prophet. They just believe and obey what their scholars and religious leaders tell them.

When they do actually read their "holy" books for themselves---without the deceitful and slick interpretations and explanations of their teachings and accounts that their immams use to make the morally repugnant things acceptable and the nonsensical things make sense, many of them are shocked and dismayed.

But the penalty for leaving Islam is death.

 

[West Spiritual Master]

2 Corinthians 11:14 [Full Chapter]
That does not surprise us, because even Satan changes himself to look like an angel of light.

So Satan is not an Angel according to the Holy Bible? If so, you are validating what the Koran says through the Holy Bible.
The Noble koran says that Satan is not an Angel but a Jinn. The Jinn is a race of creatures created by Allah from pure fire (plasma in modern terms) kown in the Bible as the Watchers.

 

[Andrewn]

The Noble koran says that Satan is not an Angel but a Jinn. The Jinn is a race of creatures created by Allah from pure fire (plasma in modern terms) kown in the Bible as the Watchers.

Would you please cite the reference from the Quran? Where does it call the satan "Jinn?" Also, what is plasma and what is it composed of? Is it made of fire, according to Quran?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Non human non terrestrial otherworldly interventions from Heaven into Earth history are the most significant issue imaginable?

John 1:1-18

 

[Daniel Marsh]

When Allah will say: O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My favour to thee and to thy mother, when I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit; thou spokest to people in the cradle and in old age, and when I taught thee the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel, and when thou didst determine out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then thou didst breathe into it and it became a bird by My permission; and thou didst heal the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the Children of Israel from thee when thou camest to them with clear arguments -- but those of them who disbelieved said: This is nothing but clear enchantment.
Quran 5:11

1. “And when the Lord Jesus was seven years of age, he was on a certain day with other boys his companions about the same age. 2. Who at play made clay into several shapes, namely, asses, oxen, birds, and other figures. 3. Each boasting of his work and endeavoring to exceed the rest. 4. Then the Lord Jesus said to the boys, I will command these figures which I have made to walk. 5. And immediately they moved, and when he commanded them to return, they returned. 6. He had also made the figures of birds and sparrows, which, when he commanded to fly, did fly, and when he commanded to stand still, did stand still; and if he gave them meat and drink, they did eat and drink. 7. When at length the boys went away and related these things to their parents, their fathers said to them, Take heed, children, for the future, of his company, for he is a sorcerer; shun and avoid him, and from now on never play with him.”
The First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ: Chapter 15 written about 350 years after Jesus.
The first Gospel of the INFANCY of JESUS CHRIST-all

Jesus makes clay birds

 

[Daniel Marsh]

pseudepigrapha Play pseud·e·pig·ra·pha aka false writings.
plural noun

sing. -·phon·
[alsoP-] a group of early writings not included in the biblical canon or the Apocrypha, some of which were falsely ascribed to biblical characters
Pseudepigrapha dictionary definition | pseudepigrapha defined

 

[West Spiritual Master]

Would you please cite the reference from the Quran? Where does it call the satan "Jinn?" Also, what is plasma and what is it composed of? Is it made of fire, according to Quran?

In Surah Al Kahf. (18:50). Kahf means cave.

The Jinn or Yinn was created by Allah from pure fire or plasma before the Man. The plasma is the fourth state of matter. It is adquired when gas is heated to extremely high temperature, high enough to seperate the electrons from the atoms.
Plasma, like gas, have an indefinite shape and volume. The plasma is an ionized gas, formed by ions instead of neutral atoms.

The gas can be seen but plasma generally can not be seen, except in some cases.

The Man was created by Allah from clay, that is, Hydeogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon...(electrons and atoms of chemical elements) while the Jinn was created from ions that can move freely through the air without form which cannot be seen by the human eye.

Unlike humans, the Jinns can stay many places at the same time because of their plasmatic constitution. A Jinn can see your forehead and your back at the same time. They are not located at a point on a plane like Man (particule) but scattered on the plane (wave). Their visual field are more extensive than ours. Their are known in the Holy Bible as the Watchers due to the hability to observe the Man.

It was related by the man of ancient times (the man of caves), petroglyphs and Myth about some strange phenomena in the sky and later called gods that came from heaven. This phenomenon is called squatting man.

 

[Andrewn]

In Surah Al Kahf. (18:50). Kahf means cave. The Jinn or Yinn was created by Allah from pure fire or plasma before the Man. The plasma is the fourth state of matter. It is adquired when gas is heated to extremely high temperature, high enough to seperate the electrons from the atoms. Plasma, like gas, have an indefinite shape and volume. The plasma is an ionized gas, formed by ions instead of neutral atoms.

Interesting verse:

Quran 18:50 When We said to the angels, “Worship Adam,” they worshipped except for Satan. Because he was one of the jinn, he transgressed against the command of his Lord. Will you then take Satan and his offspring as guardians instead of Me? They are your enemy and an evil substitute for the unrighteous.

Observations on the verse:

1) The strange incident alluded to in this verse is taken from a Jewish book called "Life of Adam and Eve." This is not in The Holy Book.

2) This incident is completely opposite to the command of Lord Jesus who said, "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only." (Luke 4:8). Christians are commanded to not worship or bow down or prostrate to angels or human beings.

3) The Quranic verse shows that Satan is one of the angels and that rebellious angels are called "jinn," which would be equivalent to what we call "demons." I realize this is different from Islamic tradition / folklore.

4) The mention of Satan's offspring is a significant departure from the teaching in The Holy Book.

5) There is no mention of the origin of jinn whether from plasma or from fire. As a party of angels one would conclude that they are spirits.

the Jinn was created from ions that can move freely through the air without form which cannot be seen by the human eye. Unlike humans, the Jinns can stay many places at the same time because of their plasmatic constitution.

In Islamic tradition / folklore, jinn frequently appear to people in animal or human forms.

Their are known in the Holy Bible as the Watchers due to the hability to observe the Man.

No, the watchers are not mentioned in The Holy Book. They're mentioned in a Jewish book called Book of Enoch.

It was related by the man of ancient times (the man of caves), petroglyphs and Myth about some strange phenomena in the sky and later called gods that came from heaven. This phenomenon is called squatting man.

Yes, the traditional stories about jinn come from ancient polytheistic cultures.

 

[West Spiritual Master]

Interesting verse:

Quran 18:50 When We said to the angels, “Worship Adam,” they worshipped except for Satan. Because he was one of the jinn, he transgressed against the command of his Lord. Will you then take Satan and his offspring as guardians instead of Me? They are your enemy and an evil substitute for the unrighteous.

Observations on the verse:

1) The strange incident alluded to in this verse is taken from a Jewish book called "Life of Adam and Eve." This is not in The Holy Book.

2) This incident is completely opposite to the command of Lord Jesus who said, "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only." (Luke 4:8). Christians are commanded to not worship or bow down or prostrate to angels or human beings.

3) The Quranic verse shows that Satan is one of the angels and that rebellious angels are called "jinn," which would be equivalent to what we call "demons." I realize this is different from Islamic tradition / folklore.

4) The mention of Satan's offspring is a significant departure from the teaching in The Holy Book.

5) There is no mention of the origin of jinn whether from plasma or from fire. As a party of angels one would conclude that they are spirits.


In Islamic tradition / folklore, jinn frequently appear to people in animal or human forms.


No, the watchers are not mentioned in The Holy Book. They're mentioned in a Jewish book called Book of Enoch.


Yes, the traditional stories about jinn come from ancient polytheistic cultures.

Why you say that Satan is an angel? The rebellious angels are called jinns? Why do you misinterpret things? Why do you lie? Satan is not an Angel.


This is what happens when you rely on the English translation instead of the Arabic. Iblis (satan) is a Jinn.

When We said to the Angels" prostrate before Adam they prostrate except for Iblis who was one of the Jinn(...). Surah Kahf

To prostrate is not to worship. If you take it literally you will not understand nothing.

"There is no mention of the origin of jinn wheter from plasma or from fire. As party of angels one would conclude that they are spirits."

If you read the Noble Koran and understand it you will found the mention of the origin of Jinn and his creation from fire.

And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire. (55:15)

[ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

The story of Adam and Iblis is mentioned in the Qur’an in various places in which Allah (swt) says, "We said to the angels bow down to Adam: and they bowed down: not so Iblis".

This is mentioned in:

Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verse 43
Surah Al ‘Araf chapter 7 verse 17
Surah Al Hijr chapter 15 verses 28-31
Surah Al Isra chapter 17 verse 61
Surah Ta Ha chapter 20 verse 116
Surah Sad chapter 38 verses 71-74

The English translation of the first part of the verse ‘We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis’, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Koran was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her separately.

Similarly in the Koran, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say directly Iblis was an angel.

Secondly, Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel.

Only jinn and man can disobey Allah.

And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they worship Me. (51:56)

The Angels were created from light (photons), jinns from pure fire (plasma or ions) and man from clay (atoms).

The word Jinn for English is Genie.

Then the Book of Enoch is not valid?

Will you take Satan and his offspring as guardians instead of Me?

Satan has many sons (offspring), among them are 12 sons who act as his representatives on Earth.