Beware of Sect/Denominational Idolatry--Please

[brotherjim]

These denomination sub-groups are ideal for keeping those with like minds together for edification, and (hopefully) keeping out those who only are divisive. However, inherent in such a medium is denominational idolatry, which is exposed like a tooth's nerve to a dentists drill when some truth attempts to expose the denominational/sect idol.

We are not one another's enemy, and we do have a mutual foe, whose name was once Lucifer. Let us not fall after the same example.

Peace be upon us all, in Jesus' Name, brotherjim

 

[Matthan]

Any post that mentions exposed nerves and dentist's drills immediately gets my attention, such is my fear of both. However, the thrust of your post aludes me, brotherjim.

Are you saying that Southern Baptists should not think themselves more Christ-like than Independent Baptist? Or, is your intent more that Methodists should not think themselves better Christians than Lutherans?

In either case, there is a point to be made. Personally, I am the lowest of sinners, and there is no one that is not a better Christian than I. But I try, none-the-less. And rubbing words with the posters on this particular forum has given me greater insight into my own unworthyness. And, that makes my gift of God's grace so much more to be cherished. That His mercy could reach out to a sinner such as I continually boggles my mind and makes me strive to do what I can for Him, as opportunity presents itself.

Matthan <J>< (Festina Lente)

 

[Cright]

I don't mean to be funny Brother Jim, but, never seeing any of your posts in this sub forum until today my first instinctual feeling is that that message is somewhat accousatory. As if you have seen posts of people in Baptist/Anabaptis and are addressing them in a blanket statement with this post or something. I always try to be disserning and take it word for word, and in this post I agree with you. We should all be followers of Christ 1st and a paticular denomination 2nd.

So I am not upset with what you have written at all, just curious as to what promped you to write the statement.

I would like to recommend however (since alot of us here might now know you) that you fellowship within some of the threads before making blanket "problem" statments so that we know you better and can understand where you are coming from. Especially since no one can look at anyone elses past posts anymore to find out about you and your profile limited and tells us next to nothing about you. Just a suggestion.

btw, I have a "Chrisitan" faith icon cross. I go to a Baptist church, as shown in my profile. I kept the Christian icon when I became baptist because I felt it expressed best who I was following.

God Bless,
Carina

 

[Gold Dragon]

I would agree that the idea of retreating into denomination "ghettos" is giving into Satan's desire not to have the Christian unity that Christ prayed for us before his crucifixion and that Paul urged countless times.

However, being the flawed humans that we are, these ghettos have proved useful in maintaining peace and encouraging fellowship, purely from a practical standpoint.

And when we are ready to meet Christ and Paul's challenge to foster Christian unity, then there are many interdenominational forums for us to embark on that journey.

 

[rural_preacher]

I don't mean to be funny Brother Jim, but, never seeing any of your posts in this sub forum until today my first instinctual feeling is that that message is somewhat accousatory. As if you have seen posts of people in Baptist/Anabaptis and are addressing them in a blanket statement with this post or something. I always try to be disserning and take it word for word, and in this post I agree with you. We should all be followers of Christ 1st and a paticular denomination 2nd.

So I am not upset with what you have written at all, just curious as to what promped you to write the statement.

I would like to recommend however (since alot of us here might now know you) that you fellowship within some of the threads before making blanket "problem" statments so that we know you better and can understand where you are coming from. Especially since no one can look at anyone elses past posts anymore to find out about you and your profile limited and tells us next to nothing about you. Just a suggestion.

Hear! Hear!

Well said.


--

 

[Maeyken]

I find it interesting that you post a message like you did in this forum. There are several different denominations represented in this forum, and we do discuss differences between our beliefs regularly. I'm definitely not saying we're perfect, but what prompted you to make this post?

 

[Fat]

These denomination sub-groups are ideal for keeping those with like minds together for edification, and (hopefully) keeping out those who only are divisive. However, inherent in such a medium is denominational idolatry, which is exposed like a tooth's nerve to a dentists drill when some truth attempts to expose the denominational/sect idol.

We are not one another's enemy, and we do have a mutual foe, whose name was once Lucifer. Let us not fall after the same example.

Peace be upon us all, in Jesus' Name, brotherjim

Your post seems to be directed at those Fundamentalist Baptist that practice "Biblical Separation" ( http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/biblicalseparation.html ). The General Association of Regular Baptist Churches ( http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/garbc/inclu.htm ) and some Anabaptist can give you chapter and verse on why this practice is within proper Biblical teaching. We have a baptist church that is a member of GARBC that refuses to participate in our yearly BBQ because we are members of the Southern Baptist Conference. I would tell you their objections to the SBC but they are so ridiculous that it would detract from the point of this post.

I believe that all churches should practice some "Biblical Separation" to keep out false doctrine and those that only want to disrupt the church, but churches and Christians as a whole should fellowship with each other and discuss deference's. I have never found a minister that believes exactly like me. If I was to follow "Biblical Separation" to the extreme I would be a Church of One.

That said, if you see or hear false teachings concerning salvation are you not obligated to challenge them?
Fat
http://biblediscussion.org

 

[brotherjim]

Hi, Carina (and what a lovely name you have, btw).

There were other posts here that I should get to first or at least also, but yours came across with such a distinctive flavor that it caught my attention the most.

I don't mean to be funny Brother Jim, but, never seeing any of your posts in this sub forum until today my first instinctual feeling is that that message is somewhat accousatory.

Well, I have no memory to speak of, but if I would guess I'd say I started posting here on the Ana. about 6 to 8 weeks ago (not sure, though). I've been on and away from this forum for several time periods over several years, but the last time I don't recall these sub-groups and I think they did not exist yet. (I'm a member of more than a dozen Christian forums, btw--this one the best, however {-_-}.)

But I drift between several sub-groups, and this one moves quickly, so the several threads I was involved in have fallen off the map. I just saved "Anabaptism; Milk vs. Meat" from it being extinct the next day. I made several responses on the thread "The Law" by "Iolliac" (sorry if I butchered that), and I'll bump it up for you because I think many said many wonderful things to both Ana's. and Baptists--that was my last activity here I think, other than what's now on the Main Menu. I'm on "Deeper Fellowship" and some of the General Theology groups at times.

As if you have seen posts of people in Baptist/Anabaptist and are addressing them in a blanket statement with this post or something. I always try to be discerning and take it word for word, and in this post I agree with you. We should all be followers of Christ 1st and a paticular denomination 2nd. So I am not upset with what you have written at all, just curious as to what promped you to write the statement.

I believe you.

The thread starter does not address just this sub-group, of course. It is a problem I noticed on every denominational sub-group I investigated my first day exploring over here in this part of the forum. I qualify to post on four of these denom. groups, and in fact also posted this same thread starter on the Charismatic section. I'd like to post it on all of them, but thought that would be considered spamming. And the generic sections move too fast.

I also claim to write/speak prophetically--all glory to God, if true: i.e., what, where and when the Holy Ghost directs me. But I certainly do not expect you or anyone to accept that. Each should decide for their own selves, if they must (I believe such methodology should be the norm for all Christians, and do not consider it anything extraordinary for me; neither is that a falsely humble statement). More about this Gift can be found on the website of Art (Aaron) Katz, a Messianic Jew and Anabaptist, at www.benisrael.org, for those interested. His on-line/ppk. book Reality. . . is a gem waiting to be found.

But I do not claim infallability, of course, so sift, sift and sift, amen?

. . . Especially since no one can look at anyone elses past posts anymore to find out about you and your profile limited and tells us next to nothing about you.

Yeah, I was so saddened to see they did away with that search posts of so-and-so command. I purposely keep vague info. about myself in the profile and such. Not only am I a very private, and somewhat shy person (despite the fact I'm pouring out myself to you here, but you can get me to say most anything, I believe). I'm not into all those icon things, either.

(But should I not be judged solely by the words I post? Are they not the Truth and heart of God? Then obey. Are they false? Then discard them and pray for me and Love me regardless. God is big enough to do the rest. "Love NEVER fails" (1 Cor. 13:8). Not ever.)

If we read Paul's explanations of what it truly means to walk in Love, not only according to 1 Cor. 13's definition but in the well-hidden passages of Rom. 13:8 to 15:3a, and 1 Cor. 8:1 to 11:34, we find, among other things, that he "became all things to all men, in the hope that [he] might save some." Thus:

I'm an interdenominational, itinerant Christian speaker and aspiring writer, and I must be able to stand and speak in a Catholic charismatic service; or before Baptist Sovereign Grace; Anabaptists, a Nazarenes, (i.e., cond. sec.); a pre-trib., post-trib., or no trib people; etc., etc.; without offending the core doctrines of each whenever possible. What matters, and what all need, is to be directed back to the Gospel of the Apostles, who taught "that which you have heard from the beginning," that the Gospel is one of Loving God and all people--this is what saves eternally according to the promises of God's Holy Word. For all the above denom's. have failed to carry out the church's mandate, truly sorry to say. And if anyone denies that,--. Well,--. Sorry.

My own church is Anabaptist, charismatic/pentecostal holiness, and 99% "Wesleyan." But I do not claim to have the "corner" on Truth, neither the perfect church. (Every denomination has something good to offer and by which we all can grow; every denomination has some garbage.) But Grace, I cannot deny, has given me much, and therefore requires of me much, including the much hatred I must languish in on these forums each day in order to post and respond to what I allege is Truth. And I thank God for the opportunity, and I am not in any way complaining, neither in any degree sharing in any [alleged] glory of it. I do, however, accept full responsibility.

Thanks for the fellowship, Carina. May the Lord continue to pour out His blessing upon you, in the precious Name of sweet Jesus. You seem very balanced in Him--for a Baptist {-_-}, all glory to God, amen? Amen.

brotherjim
(email on file in my profile)

 

[brotherjim]

Your post seems to be directed at those Fundamentalist Baptist that practice "Biblical Separation" ). The General Association of Regular Baptist Churches and some Anabaptist can give you chapter and verse on why this practice is within proper Biblical teaching.

Greetings, Fat

If you want to pursue this, we should likely copy and paste onto another, new thread, as it is getting specific. But I'll briefly comment here and then leave it up to you.

I opened the url you posted, and the first para. was thus:

"The Bible teaches that we are to test all teachings (I John 4:1,6), expose those teachings that are false (Eph. 5:11), confront and rebuke the false teachers (Titus 1:9,13), and then separate from those who persist in false teaching (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10), lest in the end, we are disqualified for service (2 Tim. 2:20,21), or worse yet, we are identified with the false teachings and the false teachers themselves (2 John 10,11). But the G.A.R.B.C., rather than separate, has instead chosen to identify itself with a wide range of false teachings and false teachers."

I needed go no further, because the first thing I immediately noticed was the Scripture references. I went into this on the "The Law" thread by "Illoain" (one day I'll get that spelling correct, Lord willing), and I noticed you posted on there also and therefore likely read what I stated about the books/epistles of the NT. But briefly to repeat, these were writings from Apostles to their congregations in many cases. They were not telling the whole world to publicly judge the whole world before the whole world (the whole church would've been better wording in 2 or more of those usages, I suppose).

As example, if I were Paul writing to the church at Ephesus, those who I "espoused" (KJV; 2Cor11) to the bride of Christ, yes, I would instruct them to judge amongst themselves teachings other than that which I gave them. But nowhere do I instruct them to go out and tell those who are not my "children," those of the "ten thousand instructors in Christ," those of other churches not birthed by me, what is incorrect among their doctrines.

Now we cannot put the Holy Ghost in a box, and He will no doubt direct some at some time to share something of their beliefs with someone of a different sect. But that's the way it is supposed to be, the Christian learning the Voice of God and walking moment by moment in the S(s)pirit and obedient to Him--not to mention such obedience being the Holy Word's stated requirement for eternal Life. RARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But as a general rule, we do not have God's permission to judge those outside our fellowship, to and before those outside our fellowship. If you have true Scriptural basis for something different, pray tell.

Also, when we come onto a public forum like this, we by default lay ourselves bare to whatever is posted here. (The TV series I've been seeing lately that challenges some of the false teachings of the church, is also, in part, cool--but also at times tempts God.)

The above are the 2 exceptions of which I can offer, but otherwise--.

Peace, jim (also a fundamentalist, btw and ptl)
---------------------


Edit+: But this is the type of thing of which I was warning. It is the height of arrogance for a denom. to believe they must correct some doctrine of other denoms. After all, those of the other denoms. feel exactly the same way, that their slant is the correct one and "you" are the denom. in error. Amazing how the intellectual theologians of each denom. all study basically the same texts, and each deduce they have found the truth and the others not. Amazing. Still, after 500 years of Reformation, we are just as convinced of our separtist doctrines as we are that we will be the 1 in 200 million who will win the lottery for which we just purchased a ticket. Unbelievable. The entire church is walking off the edge of a cliff, and virtually all are blind to the fact.

(But my intention was to just come back here today and say that I hope all who read this post have taken as a given that it does not include the preaching of the Gospel, that specific Good News which unveils what someone must do to inherit eternal Life. For the Word commands "us" to go into all the world and preach it to all creatures, and by implication that would include those who sit in Christian church pews but who still never have opportunity to hear the apostolic Gospel of Christ Jesus because their church has been abandoned by the Holy Ghost and His saving Truth--if He was even ever there from the start. Nothing further or personal implie by me.)

These are hard words to entreat.

 

[rural_preacher]

We have a baptist church that is a member of GARBC that refuses to participate in our yearly BBQ because we are members of the Southern Baptist Conference. I would tell you their objections to the SBC but they are so ridiculous that it would detract from the point of this post.

I am the pastor of a GARBC church. Unfortunately we do have some churches in our fellowship that the rest of us call "secondary separationists". Please understand that not all GARBC churches are like that!! Many of us gladly fellowship with other Bible believing churches in our areas that are not part of our fellowship...Bible churches, SBC, etc.

Sadly, some of the churches in our fellowship have developed an elitest, "GARBC only" attitude that is divisive and unbiblical. They are a minority and should not be the standard by which one judges the whole fellowship.

Rick Miesel (Biblical Discernment Ministries) is a radical extremist and his article - which Fat referenced in his post - about the GARBC is written with an obvious biased slant from beginning to end.


http://www.garbc.org/

--

 

[2Timothy2]

I also claim to write/speak prophetically--all glory to God, if true:

If true? If God is giving you prophetic revelation, wouldn't you know it?

[QUOTE=brotherjim]But as a general rule, we do not have God's permission to judge those outside our fellowship, to and before those outside our fellowship. If you have true Scriptural basis for something different, pray tell[/QUOTE]

2 Tim 3:16-4:2; Titus 2:11-15; 1 Timothy 6:3-5

There are others, but I see no justification for limiting these to "our own fellowship". False doctrine is false doctrine, period. It needs to be called just what it is, whether it is in a Baptist church, Catholic church, charismatic church, or whatever. When I have been in error and someone pointed it out, it didn't matter what denon he was from, the only thing that mattered was what the Bible, i.e. God, said. I am profoundly grateful to all who have had a hand in correcting me, and who will in the future, as I know I can't be right on everything I believe. I'm just not that good. heh

 

[brotherjim]

If true? If God is giving you prophetic revelation, wouldn't you know it?

Greetings, 2Tim2.

I suppose I must assume you were addressing me. If so, thank you.

Yes, of course the person receiving revelation will know it.The problem, however, is that virtually everyone believes that they are the one receiving the revelations, just as most Christians have concluded that they are walking in the Spirit, just as most are certain they are Loving as God commands, just as most are so sure that they--.

But reality says, such is rare. This was true already in the first century church ("ten thousand instructors in Christ, but few [true, spiritual] fathers").

(And it takes a good decade or two in the Lord before someone has had their heart purified enough to the point they are correctly hearing God on a consistent and therefore trustworthy basis. And because of that heart requirement, most would not get "there" if they lived to be a thousand--hence why God subsequent to creation ordained man should no longer live that long.)

. . . but I see no justification for limiting these to "our own fellowship". . . .

Sadly, most will likely agree with you. (But you, like Fat, have failed to understand that Paul's writings to Timothy were just that, intimate letters between Paul and his close disciple; ditto Titus.)

But my Love for the church "hopes all things, believes all things," and some at Mars's hill, albeit however few, "clung onto Paul and believed" (para.).

"Narrow is the Way, and few there be," jim


Edit+: "Paul . . . to Titus, mine own son. . . ." "Paul . . . to Timothy, mine own son. . . ."

 

[Palatka44]

Is proclaiming to be "Unabashedly Baptist" idolatry in your judgements?

 

[2Timothy2]

Paul's letters, all of them, are meant to teach us all the Christian life. Trying to pigeonhole them is a warping of the Scriptures.

I've heard this same thing several times on CF. "We have no authority to point out error". I believe this is not only dangerous, but grossly unbiblical. To let error go, in any part of the church, is to allow the enemy a foothold, plain and simple. I refer here to the core doctrines, not to things such as whether or not to dunk or sprinkle, or what form of local church gov't we should use. If someone is teaching that Christ was not fully God or not fully man, we must speak against this. If someone is teaching that Chrsit did not really die, we must speak against this. etc etc etc...

As for you being a prophet...

Matthew 7:15-20

​

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

We can only judge your fruits. But I am not in a position to do so now.

 

[brotherjim]

Paul's letters, all of them, are meant to teach us all the Christian life.

Greetings, 2Tim.

Thank you for reading and considering my post.

I fear you may have too narrowly inferred something I did not intend to imply. All Scriptures are Holy and "meant to teach us all" (your words), agreed. Just as the Old Testament was a Covenant between B.C. "Jews" and God, and has been replaced with a better one, it is still, all, profitable to teach us of course, as it is good for "examples," etc.

My point was thus: suppose I wrote an intimate letter to my son, while he was away starting his first year of college, in which I laid out some basic promises of how I as his father would help see him through--.

Well, never mind.

(My son got his girlfriend pregnant when both were 16 anyway, and never made it to college. But grandkids are super cool!!)

As for you being a prophet...

This really seems to be quite a problem over here on this particular channel, and I do not know why. I cannot seem to have an objective discussion with a single soul without them--.

Well, never mind.

As far as the office of a prophet, per se, I have never claimed such calling. As I think I said--and I thought meticulously and plainly (but I maybe wrong--didn't check), I believe the Scriptures teach that all who call Jesus the Christ should be speaking and writing prophetically, that it should be the norm and not exception (1 Cor. 14:1). But since the Word also declares God only gave "some, prophets," it also seems clear that of course God did not call every Christian to the office of a prophet.

I do understand and realize that someone can, haphazardly, or rather loosely, say that when someone is writing/speaking prophetically then they may be classified a prophet, but I beg this to be confusion, believing the term should be confined to those called to the office.

Even though I belive in the contemporary possibility of a prophet, and even apostle, this is so remote that it's not worth discussing on this thread. I've come across maybe 2 or 3 genuine prophets in my near quarter century with the Lord. (But again, just my personal opinion: if you do not believe in cont. prophets and apostles, fine.)

But the above is just my personal belief, and I by no means expect anyone, charismatic or non-charismatic, to believe 1 Cor. 14:1 implies all should speak and write prophetically. After all, a majority of charismatics would likely disagree with me if polled.

We can only judge your fruits. . . .

Ooops: I erased the Scriptures you quoted.

Well, suffice it to say, I assert that the Scripture whereby we will know "them" by their fruits, is not referring to Fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5), if in fact that is what you are implying; but it refers to our disciples, those we proselytize, those we mentor, those we as leaders lead in our local congregations and such.

Again, however, I know you will staunchly disagree, and you will be in the vast majority by doing so, so consider that done for you by me.

I would suggest that each and every Christian need only be about judging their own self (nothing further or personal implied).

"Sufficient unto the day is the evil [still in me] thereof."

(But, again, I know you will take exception with/to [?] my amplification as well, correct? [Rhetorical, please].)

However, allegedly, in His Grace of Love for you, 2 Tim, jim


P.S. Perhaps we will "meet" again on another thread, the Lord Jesus willing.

 

[brotherjim]

Is proclaiming to be "Unabashedly Baptist" idolatry in your judgements?

Dear Palatka,

Are you addressing me? I'll have to assume so, I suppose.

Thank you for reading and considering the words I posted (if in fact you did and I am correct in addressing you).

I do not know anything about you, neither do I recall ever reading any of your posts, so:
1) I do not know if you are being satirical or what;
2) What I will say is in no way of a personal judgment, as since I do not know you, how can I judge, correct? Besides, I take quite seriously the commandment, "judge no man before the time." Only God is fair enough, omniescent enough, and god enough, to judge anyone; neither does He afford me the luxury of condemning others which He does allow many to get away with out of their ignorance (not said condescendingly, but as a teaching)------------------

Whoever,

That said, as a general observation over my 3 or 4 years on 12++ Christian forums, I have come to know that our usernames often say much about the idols still in our heart--not always, but often enough to make the observation. I just thought it any intersting thing to share in an innocuous setting. (Nothing further or personal implied towards anyone.)

Do you guys/gals Love me yet?

jim

 

[2Timothy2]

You bet Jim, but I will always stand against the false teaching that we are not to point out error or sin in others. This stance in no way excludes rigorously examining oneself first.

 

[Palatka44]

Dear Palatka,

Are you addressing me? I'll have to assume so, I suppose.

Thank you for reading and considering the words I posted (if in fact you did and I am correct in addressing you).

I do not know anything about you, neither do I recall ever reading any of your posts, so:
1) I do not know if you are being satirical or what;
2) What I will say is in no way of a personal judgment, as since I do not know you, how can I judge, correct? Besides, I take quite seriously the commandment, "judge no man before the time." Only God is fair enough, omniescent enough, and god enough, to judge anyone; neither does He afford me the luxury of condemning others which He does allow many to get away with out of their ignorance (not said condescendingly, but as a teaching)------------------

Whoever,

That said, as a general observation over my 3 or 4 years on 12++ Christian forums, I have come to know that our usernames often say much about the idols still in our heart--not always, but often enough to make the observation. I just thought it any intersting thing to share in an innocuous setting. (Nothing further or personal implied towards anyone.)

Do you guys/gals Love me yet?

jim

My stance is on Christ. I stand on the fact that He was God born to the Virgin, come to save that which is lost by dying on the cross, buried and then litterly resurrected on the third day. And upon my realization that I a sinner would die and be forever cast into Hell, suffering justly for my rebellion against God, needed a savior. I have confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and have recieved the cleansing of His blood and am sealed unto the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit.
This is to the best of my knowledge the stance of most Baptist and I am quite comfortable to worship in unison with brothers and sisters of like faith. For this I am not ashamed of and will always proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ unabashedly.

 

[Fat]

Greetings, Fat

If you want to pursue this, we should likely copy and paste onto another, new thread, as it is getting specific. But I'll briefly comment here and then leave it up to you.

I opened the url you posted, and the first para. was thus:

"The Bible teaches that we are to test all teachings (I John 4:1,6), expose those teachings that are false (Eph. 5:11), confront and rebuke the false teachers (Titus 1:9,13), and then separate from those who persist in false teaching (Rom. 16:17; Titus 3:10), lest in the end, we are disqualified for service (2 Tim. 2:20,21), or worse yet, we are identified with the false teachings and the false teachers themselves (2 John 10,11). But the G.A.R.B.C., rather than separate, has instead chosen to identify itself with a wide range of false teachings and false teachers."

I needed go no further, because the first thing I immediately noticed was the Scripture references. I went into this on the "The Law" thread by "Illoain" (one day I'll get that spelling correct, Lord willing), and I noticed you posted on there also and therefore likely read what I stated about the books/epistles of the NT. But briefly to repeat, these were writings from Apostles to their congregations in many cases. They were not telling the whole world to publicly judge the whole world before the whole world (the whole church would've been better wording in 2 or more of those usages, I suppose).

As example, if I were Paul writing to the church at Ephesus, those who I "espoused" (KJV; 2Cor11) to the bride of Christ, yes, I would instruct them to judge amongst themselves teachings other than that which I gave them. But nowhere do I instruct them to go out and tell those who are not my "children," those of the "ten thousand instructors in Christ," those of other churches not birthed by me, what is incorrect among their doctrines.

Now we cannot put the Holy Ghost in a box, and He will no doubt direct some at some time to share something of their beliefs with someone of a different sect. But that's the way it is supposed to be, the Christian learning the Voice of God and walking moment by moment in the S(s)pirit and obedient to Him--not to mention such obedience being the Holy Word's stated requirement for eternal Life. RARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But as a general rule, we do not have God's permission to judge those outside our fellowship, to and before those outside our fellowship. If you have true Scriptural basis for something different, pray tell.

Also, when we come onto a public forum like this, we by default lay ourselves bare to whatever is posted here. (The TV series I've been seeing lately that challenges some of the false teachings of the church, is also, in part, cool--but also at times tempts God.)

The above are the 2 exceptions of which I can offer, but otherwise--.

Peace, jim (also a fundamentalist, btw and ptl)
---------------------


Edit+: But this is the type of thing of which I was warning. It is the height of arrogance for a denom. to believe they must correct some doctrine of other denoms. After all, those of the other denoms. feel exactly the same way, that their slant is the correct one and "you" are the denom. in error. Amazing how the intellectual theologians of each denom. all study basically the same texts, and each deduce they have found the truth and the others not. Amazing. Still, after 500 years of Reformation, we are just as convinced of our separtist doctrines as we are that we will be the 1 in 200 million who will win the lottery for which we just purchased a ticket. Unbelievable. The entire church is walking off the edge of a cliff, and virtually all are blind to the fact.

(But my intention was to just come back here today and say that I hope all who read this post have taken as a given that it does not include the preaching of the Gospel, that specific Good News which unveils what someone must do to inherit eternal Life. For the Word commands "us" to go into all the world and preach it to all creatures, and by implication that would include those who sit in Christian church pews but who still never have opportunity to hear the apostolic Gospel of Christ Jesus because their church has been abandoned by the Holy Ghost and His saving Truth--if He was even ever there from the start. Nothing further or personal implie by me.)

These are hard words to entreat.

You know Jim if your going to quote me please use the full quote. Your post makes sound like I'm some kind of hard line Biblical Separatist. You see Jim the irony is that your thread started as an attack on those that believe that you must speak out against anything that is not within their Church doctrine.

My son met a Buddhist and struck up a conversation about his religion. My son said it was really funny because every time my son would tell him what Christians believed the Buddhist would say "yes we believe that too."

Your post seems to be directed at those Fundamentalist Baptist that practice "Biblical Separation". The General Association of Regular Baptist Churches and some Anabaptist can give you chapter and verse on why this practice is within proper Biblical teaching. We have a baptist church that is a member of GARBC that refuses to participate in our yearly BBQ because we are members of the Southern Baptist Conference. I would tell you their objections to the SBC but they are so ridiculous that it would detract from the point of this post.

I believe that all churches should practice some "Biblical Separation" to keep out false doctrine and those that only want to disrupt the church, but churches and Christians as a whole should fellowship with each other and discuss deference's. I have never found a minister that believes exactly like me. If I was to follow "Biblical Separation" to the extreme I would be a Church of One.

That said, if you see or hear false teachings concerning salvation are you not obligated to challenge them?

Thank you Jim for your answer.
Fat

 

[Fat]

I am the pastor of a GARBC church. Unfortunately we do have some churches in our fellowship that the rest of us call "secondary separationists". Please understand that not all GARBC churches are like that!! Many of us gladly fellowship with other Bible believing churches in our areas that are not part of our fellowship...Bible churches, SBC, etc.

Sadly, some of the churches in our fellowship have developed an elitest, "GARBC only" attitude that is divisive and unbiblical. They are a minority and should not be the standard by which one judges the whole fellowship.

Rick Miesel (Biblical Discernment Ministries) is a radical extremist and his article - which Fat referenced in his post - about the GARBC is written with an obvious biased slant from beginning to end.


http://www.garbc.org/

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I know Mr. Preacher I was not trying to pick on the GARBC I was only trying to point out that even telling some members of churches with this "Church Doctrine" that they should all get along was in it's self an affront to some of our Christian brothers. Yes there are extremist and like I said, I have never met a preacher man that I can agree with 100%, so maybe that makes me some kind of extremist. But I'm not about to leave the Church or fellowship for some small insignificant differences that have no effect on Salvation. I have no problem with GARBC, even the church I referenced are good solid Christians and my brothers, and they do leave a lot more BBQ for me. :}

Fat

"Secondary separationists" new term for me.