Better to be cold than a luke-warm Christian?

[Steven Wood]

I don't think that part about Capernaum rejecting Jesus would be called luke-warm. That would involve being cold. Luke-warm would involve half-hearted acceptance. Also for the child, I don't think spitting in your face or calling you names is being luke-warm. I think being an acquaintance is what luke-warm is about.

So do you mean you must be super-enthusiastic or cold in all relationships? What if you were a beautiful young girl and you had a creepy uncle that liked you and wanted to be around you all the time? Could you just be luke-warm or would you have to choose between being hot or cold?

The spitting in your face part being luke warm has to be read as a metaphor. The child was "spitting" in the parents face by his actions and words when he was arounds his friends. The Uncle that's funny lol Honestly once a person someone is inappropriate with you, you have the right to cut ties. You don't need to subject yourself to undue physical, emotional, and mental harm. Why should you want to be hot or even lukewarm for that matter. I understand being nice so you don't hurt feelings but shouldn't they be told what they are doing that "creepy"? As for Capernaum, You're right about that, I should've said why I mentioned them. They were so busy worshipping God (what they thought was God) that they couldn't see God standing right in front of them. They thought they were serving the true God and by rejecting JESUS they were serving the wrong god.

 

[A greater Hope]

My sisters' church teaches that Revelation 3:16 ("So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth") means that lukewarm Christians will receive a greater punishment than "cold" people (non-believers).
Though as a teenager I believed in young-earth creationism I don't think I was a proper believer.
Anyway their belief makes me want to remain a non-believer because if I believed I could risk becoming lukewarm and get a greater punishment. BTW I think it isn't fair for luke-warm Christians to receive a greater punishment.

 

[A greater Hope]

Better I say to be in Christ than out of him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hot, cold, luke-warm in the letter to the Laodicean church in the Apocalypse is written specifically to believing Christians. So the issue of non-believers is a non-issue here.

It's helpful to understand that the Apocalypse (often called the Book of the Revelation or the Revelation of St. John) was written during a time of persecution, during the reign of Caesar Domitian sometime between 90 and 95 AD/CE. The author, St. John of Patmos (it is unclear if this is John the Apostle or another John remembered as John the Presbyter or even another John entirely), was a prisoner on the Roman penal colony of Patmos, just off the south-western coast of Asia Minor (modern Turkey). The seven churches are churches in seven cities in Asia:

According to the Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (4th century) during this time Domitian's government was coming down hard on the Christians in Asia. One thing Domitian had done was revive the imperial cult, having built a temple dedicated to his father and brother (the former emperors Vespasian and Titus), and it was expected that faithful Roman citizens would honor and worship the emperor and the imperial image by offering incense and praise. For example it's believed that in the Apocalypse, in the part addressed to Pergamum the "seat of Satan" refers to the city's impressive acropolis, including a massive temple dedicated to Serapis; tradition states that Pergamum's bishop Antipas was martyred around 92 AD by a mob of Serapis worshipers, put into a brazen bull and baked alive.

These were the conditions in which John wrote the Apocalypse. And so it's important to understand that each Christian community was facing its own battles, the Church in Laodicea had its own struggles which the Apocalypse gives us only a glimpse of. It is in this context that the hot, cold, or luke-warm statement must be read.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[orangeness365]

You're probably better off being a Christian and have hope in being saved than not being Christian. I know that it is bad to be a backslider 2 Peter 2:20, but there are also a lot of passages in the Old Testament about backsliding being forgiven those that repent of it. Jeremiah 3:12, Jeremiah 3:22.

 

[dms1972]

My sisters' church teaches that Revelation 3:16 ("So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth") means that lukewarm Christians will receive a greater punishment than "cold" people (non-believers).
Though as a teenager I believed in young-earth creationism I don't think I was a proper believer.
Anyway their belief makes me want to remain a non-believer because if I believed I could risk becoming lukewarm and get a greater punishment. BTW I think it isn't fair for luke-warm Christians to receive a greater punishment.

For years I interpreted that verse something like that, and I couldn't understand it. But I came across an interpretation that seems to make more sense in the NIV Study Bible:

"'Hot' may refer to the hot, medicinal waters of nearby Hierapolis. The Church in Laodicea supplied neither healing for the spiritually sick, nor refreshment for the spiritually weary."

 

[ToBeLoved]

I agree. Even if I wanted to believe I can't just turn belief on. Though my relatives want me to believe again.


I thought a luke-warm bride would be better than a cold one.


My sisters' pastor think a greater punishment in the lake of fire is involved.


Even though I was a creationist I said that I don't think I was a proper believer.

First of all, Revelation is a hard book to understand because it is about the future. People have spent a long time trying to understand what it means. I would never want to see any believer base their faith on a verse in Revelation because it can be interpreted wrong very easily.

In Christ's kingdom there are all kinds of believers and no matter what anyone says the Holy Spirit is working with each of us individually. That is why we are not to judge other believers. One person may seem to be the best Christian that you've ever seen, but maybe their heart is not right. Their motivation is not right. God cares about what we do AND why we do it. God see's our heart and it is important to Him. Very, very important.

So in the eyes of other Christians someone may look lukewarm, but that doesn't mean that they are in the eyes of God because God see's the complete picture.

The more judgemental a Christian is, the more you need to stay away from their belief system. Judgemental people usually are a terrible testimony of the love of Christ because they don't get past their own judgement (which is only superficial anyway).

 

[dms1972]

.

 

[dms1972]

I agree tobeloved, I read bits of revelation as a child, and never understood them, still don't. Its not the place to begin in the Bible.

 

[aiki]

My sisters' church teaches that Revelation 3:16 ("So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth") means that lukewarm Christians will receive a greater punishment than "cold" people (non-believers).
Though as a teenager I believed in young-earth creationism I don't think I was a proper believer.
Anyway their belief makes me want to remain a non-believer because if I believed I could risk becoming lukewarm and get a greater punishment. BTW I think it isn't fair for luke-warm Christians to receive a greater punishment.

John explains in his comments to the Laodicean church what it was that made them lukewarm. They felt they had no need of God because their material needs were met (Rev. 3:17). Their focus was upon their material, temporal condition, not their spiritual one and this, I think, was a big part of why they had grown lukewarm toward their heavenly Father. But as John declares to the Laodiceans, spiritually-speaking they were "wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked."

Do lukewarm believers receive a greater punishment than the lost? No. If they are saved but spiritually apathetic they may not receive any reward at the Final Judgment, but they will still, as God's children, enter into His kingdom (though "as by fire," as Paul puts it). (1Cor. 3:15) The lost person, however, is destined for eternal separation from God in hell.

Being a Young Earth Creationist is not a biblical requirement for being a born-again child of God.

Selah.

 

[ToBeLoved]

John explains in his comments to the Laodicean church what it was that made them lukewarm. They felt they had no need of God because their material needs were met (Rev. 3:17). Their focus was upon their material, temporal condition, not their spiritual one and this, I think, was a big part of why they had grown lukewarm toward their heavenly Father. But as John declares to the Laodiceans, spiritually-speaking they were "wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked."

That would make sense because Jesus said the most important commandment is to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind".

Sometimes we let life, traditions or even sin take our eyes off loving the Lord.

 

[Tishri1]

My sisters' church teaches that Revelation 3:16 ("So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth") means that lukewarm Christians will receive a greater punishment than "cold" people (non-believers).
Though as a teenager I believed in young-earth creationism I don't think I was a proper believer.
Anyway their belief makes me want to remain a non-believer because if I believed I could risk becoming lukewarm and get a greater punishment. BTW I think it isn't fair for luke-warm Christians to receive a greater punishment.

Hi JohnClay,
Wow what a scary concept.....exhausting too dont you think? I imagine a lot of work is involved in being Hot or Cold and the minute I relax Im luke warm!!! What do you think it looks like for you?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Being a luke-warm Christian would be a lot worse than a hot one but I don't understand why they would be worse than a non-believer. I think Matthew 6:22-24 etc is saying that a non-hot person is just as bad as a cold person but I don't think it says that they are WORSE than a cold person.

I think it helps to Read Romans 5, 6, 7 which talks about our regeneration in Christ. We are given the mind of Christ, are to rely on Christ to be our strength and have the Holy Spirit, God Himself residing in us.

What I believe that it speaks to is that throughout our lives we are being sanctified, becoming more like Christ and becoming better representatives for Christ on this earth. I do not believe that God is comparing us against each other like 'this guy overcame so much sexual sin' or 'this lady has really learned compassion' but the idea is that God has a specific plan for each of us. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, but if we choose to make another decision, our own free will overpowers that conviction.

So I believe it is more about growth in whatever area that Christ is calling each of us to. We have been bought with a price.

 

[RDKirk]

Being a luke-warm Christian would be a lot worse than a hot one but I don't understand why they would be worse than a non-believer. I think Matthew 6:22-24 etc is saying that a non-hot person is just as bad as a cold person but I don't think it says that they are WORSE than a cold person.

Because that's not what it's saying.

When I was on my first military tour overseas, it was to Thailand in the early 70s. On the first day, a couple of hours after the plane landed, my sponsor (the military guy who met me at the plane) took me to lunch in the 'ville.

We went to a small restaurant just off the base that catered to the American airmen. It was actually just before lunch, so the place was deserted. There was a buffet table set out, though, with a spread of sliced meats and bread.

My sponsor ignored the buffet, but took me to a table and sat down. And waited. And we waited some more.

After several minutes without seeing a waiter, I suggested we just help ourselves to the buffet.

"Oh, noooo!" he said. "Nope, you don't want to do that. We don't know how long that food has been out there. It might have been there since Monday."

Then he leaned close to me, "Look, when you come to a place like this, if they took the food right of the fire, you can eat it. If they took the food right off the ice, you can eat it. But if it's room temperature, spit it out--it'll kill you!"

That is what the Lord is talking about. Even in His day, it was known that food kept hot in the pot was edible, food kept cool in a gourd in a stream was edible, but food left out would quickly spoil and become toxic. That's why cold is just as good as hot--either way, it's not lukewarm. Lukewarm is what will kill you.

A Christian should be a distinctly different "temperature" from the rest of the world. We should not be like the world--we should be different, one direction or the other. We're cold about things that excite them (1 Peter 4:4), and we're excited about things they don't even believe.

This is the same thing the Lord has always said: He want's a "peculiar" people, not people who are indistinguishable from the background. That's what "lukewarm" means--indistinguishable from the world.

Being "not fully involved" as a Christian is certainly not better than being "all in." Those Christians, "will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." -- (1 Corinthians 3). But he will be saved.

Nor are they responsible for any unbeliever not being saved. None of us bears any responsibility for anyone else's salvation, either saving them or losing them. If I could prevent anyone's salvation, that would make me more powerful than God.

God knows the name of each and every person who will be saved, right up to that very last person before Christ returns. Nobody on His list will be lost regardless of what we do.

 

[Dave G.]

The best description I heard ( ridiculously paraphrased) was that the luke warm Christian or church is complacent in God, He feels secure and safe and can't be worked with very well, they think they are all set and they are not. The cold guys are broken and know it and God can still work in them. The cold Christian may be open to counsel, the luke warm don't feel they need counsel.

I would add that today's church may be quite luke warm, so as to parallel very much what is spoken of !

 

[2PhiloVoid]

My sisters' church teaches that Revelation 3:16 ("So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth") means that lukewarm Christians will receive a greater punishment than "cold" people (non-believers).

....mmmmmmmmmmmm, I don't think that's what it actually implies, John.

In my reading and understanding, the Christians in Laodicea had adulterated their faith and by having done so, they left themselves open to God's temporal judgment (i.e. judgment that can come upon us in the "here and now" of this world). The people in the Church of Laodicea "thought" they were doing what Christians should do or could do, but they weren't really paying attention to what was important in their doctrine or in how they lived out their relationship with God in Christ. They became spiritually diluted and deluded, careless and tepid in their care, kind of like how the Corinthian Christians did whom wrangled with Paul. The Laodiceans thereby got off-track from fulfilling Christ's Will for His Church, and so, Jesus warned them that they needed to repent and fire up His Truth and His Love in their Church.

Though as a teenager I believed in young-earth creationism I don't think I was a proper believer.
Anyway their belief makes me want to remain a non-believer because if I believed I could risk becoming lukewarm and get a greater punishment. BTW I think it isn't fair for luke-warm Christians to receive a greater punishment.

Well then, John, I'd suggest expanding beyond their tight, rigid, (and stifling?) attempts to interpret the Scriptures, but do this without at the same time just dissing them out of hand.

I know it can be frustrating to try to figure the Bible out, especially if and when some Christian pastors and teachers in certain churches are off or are superficial in some of their interpretations. Try not to let it all get you down simply because some of the things being taught at your sister's church may need some 'mending.'