Benny Hinn

Quaffer said:

Prophesying and being a prophet are two different things. I can prophesy. . . but I am not a prophet.

And that sound bite it not proof that if he did prophesy out of line that he has not sought forgiveness. We are NOT to hold a mans failures in his face. Those of us who do will have our failures held up in our faces when we stand befor God.

Click to expand...

you edited, and i didnt get to respond to the second. His failures, show us that the gift he claims to have are not born of God, he persists in this. We must present this to people, show me where it says we are not to show people there mistakes

d0c markus said:

oh. Please enlighten me of the difference and back it up.

Click to expand...

A prophet has the Spirit of prophesy on them all the time. . .like Elijah, Elisha, etc. But the Spirit of prophesy can cause anyone willing to prophesy at any given time. . .King Saul. See also 1 Cor 14:29 - 33 "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can "all" prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, and in all the churchs of the saints"

The spirit of the prophets can rest on anyone for a given time. . .but the prophet always has that spirit of prophesy on them, and are the one's who properly judge what is coming out of the mouth of the non-prophet. Notice in the OT there were Schools of the Prophets. Elijah was one of the teachers. It was not uncommon at all to find groups of "prophets in the making", travelling from place to place prophesy and being critiqued by Elijah, and others.

Please note, I am not defending Benny or anyone else in regards to making bad statements. I just believe that we as believers need to be extremely cautious when we point the finger at fellow bretheren. If we are not careful, we will find ourselves in the mess we have so hurridly pointed a finger at. Maybe not the same exact issue but the same bottom line.

The devil is the accuser of the saints. . .we are NOT to join forces with him. Unless we have personally prayed for Benny and/or fave person to criticize then we are guilty of helping satan out with things he does not need help with. All the finger pointing instead of proper confrontation as scripture defines it, is an embarrasment to the body of Christ and the main reason tha is keeping people from coming in.

Quaffer

A prophet has the Spirit of prophesy on them all the time. . .like Elijah, Elisha, etc. But the Spirit of prophesy can cause anyone willing to prophesy at any given time. . .King Saul. See also 1 Cor 14:29 - 33 "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. For you can "all" prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, and in all the churchs of the saints"

Click to expand...

I agree that the gift of prophecy can be bestowed on anybody at anytime, but the fact of the matter is that paul is instructing 2-3 prophets speak at a time, correlates to let 2-3 people speak in tongues at a time, also if you read on to verse 40 paul explains why. To maintain orderly worship. Nothing can get done, if everyone is speaking in tongues or prophesying all the time. Since scripture doesnt contradict the will of God we can deduct that God will not let anyone with this gift speak out after the third person.

Do you think that Elijah, and Elisha, prophecied with every word they ever spoke? No im sure they prophicied when the lord pressed it on thier heart. You mentioned you have the gift.

Prophesying and being a prophet are two different things. I can prophesy. . . but I am not a prophet.

Click to expand...

I can prophesy is in the present tense, when does your gift fade exactly? if it doesnt fade you are a prophet by your definition. You have shown no distinction. Im not attackin ya im trying to understand.

this is a convo between me and ydouexist, and his opinion on the matter:

d0c Markus: can u tell me your thoughts from this quote down? http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1440080&postcount=41
ydouxist: Im very sceptical of people who call themselves "Prophets" I agree anyone can prophesy. But, Benny Hinn has spoken presumptuously many times. Elijah was a Prophet but he also not operating in prophecy when he fled from Jezebelle.
d0c Markus: thats interesting, what verse is that or can u make a post?
ydouxist: I'll find it
ydouxist: It was right after he called fire down on the prophets of baal
ydouxist: Prophet or Profit?
d0c Markus:
ydouxist: 1 Kings 19
d0c Markus: how do you know he is not operating as a prophet when he ran?
ydouxist: verse 3 Elijah was afraid and ran for his life.The Word of the Lord came in verse 10. It says What are you doing here Elijah?
d0c Markus: hmm.. yea u should post that
ydouxist: you can U type faster
ydouxist: Did U read 1 Kings 19
d0c Markus: yes
ydouxist: God told him " Go back the way you came" If Elijah operated in prophecy all the time God would not have had to tell him to go back. As Christians we need to hear from the Lord and not react to circumstances or how things may appear to us. " They that" wait"upon the Lord shall renew their strenght"

I'd like to add I am not questioning Elijahs annointing as a Prophet.
The Prophet or Profit comment was questioning anyone who goes around calling themself a Prophet in our day.

ydouxist said:

I'd like to add I am not questioning Elijahs annointing as a Prophet.
The Prophet or Profit comment was questioning anyone who goes around calling themself a Prophet in our day.

Click to expand...

A prophet is to play a significant part of our blief, they are to be part of the forfilment of God's promise, forexample, Jesus and Paul. Jesus was the huge fulfilment of the covernant Paul was part of that fulfilment.

Benny Hinn... Since I can't see any part in him, thus it's not necessary to recieve salvation through him....it's only through Jesus that we may recieve salvation....so why bother?

im confused. Why bother what? we are discussing whether someone who prophicies is a "prophet" or not.

d0c markus said:

I agree that the gift of prophecy can be bestowed on anybody at anytime, but the fact of the matter is that paul is instructing 2-3 prophets speak at a time, correlates to let 2-3 people speak in tongues at a time, also if you read on to verse 40 paul explains why. To maintain orderly worship. Nothing can get done, if everyone is speaking in tongues or prophesying all the time. Since scripture doesnt contradict the will of God we can deduct that God will not let anyone with this gift speak out after the third person.

Click to expand...

markus,

I interpret this part of scripture a wee bit differently than you do. Paul said, "you may all" prophesy. I view the 2 or 3 rule as being applied to any ONE person. In other words, one person may prophesy only 2 -3 times in one service so as to give others a chance to step out also. There are some who flow in this gifting extremely well while others are still learning. It is very easy for one person to do it all and it's not supposed to be that way.

d0c markus said:

Do you think that Elijah, and Elisha, prophecied with every word they ever spoke? No im sure they prophicied when the lord pressed it on thier heart. You mentioned you have the gift.

Click to expand...

Of course not every word that proceded from their mouth at all times was prophesying. They were still human and struggled with human emotions as your friend pointed out with Elijah running from Jezebel. However, being as they are anointed as "Prophet", they could, under the unction of the anointing, prophesy.

As far as my own gifting, I have had others call me a prophet(ess) but I do not believe that I am. I guess to be brutally honest, I don't want to believe that I am. For me it is serious and I don't take it lightly.

I do at the leading of the Holy Spirit, give words of comfort, edification, and exortation. I have given people intimate details of their heart and instruction of how to change what needs to be changed. Frequently, here on the forum, whenever I answer something, the person will say, "how did you know that?", Who told you that? I was just responding to a question. I may be in state of denial markus. I don't know.

The only time I stepped out and said, "if you do that, then this will happen", was with an ex roommate who became involved with an unsaved man. I remember the Lord dealing with me for days to call her and finely I did. The Lord told me to tell her that if she continued with the relationship and married him, it would end tragically. She went ahead and married him and it was just a few years later that he murdered her. She could have avoided it if she had listened to the word, but she did not. I cried for weeks. . .remembering over and over the warning God had given her through me.

d0c markus said:

I can prophesy is in the present tense, when does your gift fade exactly? if it doesnt fade you are a prophet by your definition. You have shown no distinction. Im not attackin ya im trying to understand.

Click to expand...

You kinda got me stuck there markus I think that anytime I sense the Lord wants to say something, and I am in position, in other words I'm listening, then I can tell what needs to be told. I think someone who is anointed in the office of "Prophet", can hear, even if he does'nt want to.

Take Jonah for instance: He was a prophet. He was not deliberately in tune with God. But no matter how hard he tried to get away from it, he heard it. And he was angry about it.

I think even though Elijah was hiding in a cave, He could still hear God giving him instructions. For a short period of time we see Elijah succumbing to fear but he overcame it.

As far as Benny Hinn goes. . .I don't believe he's a prophet. I believe he's anointed in the area God is obviously using him in. That's all I care to say about him. . .I don't the man personally but I do know several people who do and they have nothing but good to say. Benny is a man just like the rest of us. I believe there are people in his life who are in position to correct him and I believe he is conforming. However, much of the body of Christ are not lifting him up in prayer as a fellow laborer in the field of the Lord and instead are choosing to tear down. Perhaps that is why he is making so many mistakes. . .so much of the body is tearing him down instead of lifting him up in prayer. Even with the mistakes, he is operating in his gift as best he knows how and has brought more people to the Lord than I have. I'm going to try and remember to pray for him more. He needs it.

Can you please explain anointing into the office of prophet? How does that happen. Have your prophicies ever been wrong?

kit_kat_katie said:

What do people think of Benny Hinn and his crusades?

Click to expand...

I think Benny Hinn has his good points and his bad points. I believe that God is using him in a very special way. But somtimes I think he gets into the whole 'showbuisness' thing. Do ya know what I mean? Hope God keeps blessing you over and over again! Merry Christmas

You have a point Quaffer.
We should pray for him. I like you don't know him, but know several who personally do.
Those in the spotlight are constantly exaulted by men.
I'm sure the ever present praises from men is something few of us will ever experience.

I dispise the media, who make a public specticle of God gifted ministries.

d0c markus said:

Can you please explain anointing into the office of prophet? How does that happen.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I can answer thoroughly, but I'll try. Being anointed in a particular gift and walking in the office of it is having that particular gift operating no matter where you are or what you are doing. Such as Billy Graham, has the gift and the anointing for stirring the hearts of the sinner and whenever he talks, people give their heart to the Lord. I don't have that gift, however, at any time needed God can annoint me for the moment, I can share the gospel and that person will be stirred by the Holy Spirit and they will give their heart to the Lord. I have had that happen. But not every single time I share the gospel.

To me the "office of Prophet", is that person has the gift. . .period. Whether they know how to use the gift though is another story. That I believe was the whole point of the "School of The Prophets" that we see in the OT. Why would there need to be a school, if the person who was gifted could do it perfectly from the start? Saul, at one point was hit with the Holy Spirit and began prophesying alongside the group of prophets even though I believe at one point, he was in rebellion at the time. . . but Saul was not a Prophet, even though a couple of times he was prophesying.

I'm sorry I'm writing here off the top of my head. If you want me to find the scripture referrences to these examples I will. I was just wanting to get thigs written before I have to leave.

Being anointed is operating in submission to God, in the gift he has appointed to you. Anointing comes by submission to God. . .not just because I feel like having that gift or I go to school to learn how to do that gift better. Learning how to opperate correctly in our gifting though is essential. That is why there are so many, making so many mistakes. They are not properly trained.

d0c markus said:

Have your prophicies ever been wrong?

Click to expand...

Well, due to the fact that I've never given dates, times, and places, I can safely say NO.

Prophesy in the NT is very different from prophesy in the OT. In the OT it was generally a lot of doom and gloom. In the OT prophesy is to be exortation, encouragement, and edification.

The qualification for prophesy though is seen best I think in the OT. We see in part of scripture where God gives Moses a list of "if you obey me, these are the blessing you will have". I you don't obey me these are the curses you will have". That's pretty clear. That's prophesy, and it depends on the hearer whether they get blessing or curse.

With Solomon we see God giving Soloman great riches. God put him at peace with every nation around him. But there was a prophesy given. Basically it was, "if you follow my words you will be blessed (more so than already), and you will remain at peace with surrounding lands". Solomon disobeyed and even though it did not happen in his life, the kingdom was ripped apart by discention w/surrounding people that they had been at peace with.

Jonah went into Ninevah, "Ninavah will be destroyed". But the people repented and Ninevah was not destroyed. Would that make Jonah a false prophet? No. It shows God willing to work with us.

Most of the words that I give go something like this, "markus, I see you like you're on a stair step. What I believe the Lord is saying is that He's given you things to do. Things that He has anointed you for. However, you step up and then you step down. You step up to do what He's given you and for whatever reason you step back down. God would like you to know that He wants you to step up and not step back down again. He says, that as you stay faithful to the step he has put you on then when it's time, He will add more steps. He say's, dont' look to the right, don't look to the left, and for heaven's sake, don't look down. Look up. Look up to Him. He is the provider. He is the anointer. He is the one who goes before you in the battle."

Now see markus, that word to you coming true is dependant upon you doing what you are told. If you continue to get sidetracked and if you continue to allow others opinions of you get in the way of you doing what God has given you to do, then you'll only continue on those two steps that your currently on. If you listen and do it then you'll see God do great things through the things He's put in your hand to do. It may happen tomorrow, it may happen years from now. . .I don't have a date. . .but as long as you stay faithful with what God has given you, it will happen.

I do not think that you can justify a man (or woman) who makes false prophecies by some spurious argument about them being a prophet.

A person who prophecies is a prophet. They are not excused from the instructions in Deuteronomy 18:20-22. Unless you would seek to nullify the word of God, so that it holds no power? How can we excuse men who prophecy from the instructions that were written to protect us who do?

As a side note, I cannot think of an example in Scripture of the so called "prophecies" as practiced by today's charismatics. I cannot think of anyone giving a "word" from God, such as a Scripture, an encouragement, or an instruction. The closest I can think of is those times when the Spirit moved one of God's men to proclaim judgement against someone else. Such as Acts 5 when the Spirit revealed that they had lied, and then killed them.
I don't recall having ever seen a person give a Scripture passage to someone else as an encouragement from God. Nothing like that. If you have an example from Scripture I should like to hear it.

If you make a prophecy, and it doesn't come to pass, you are a false prophet. It is probably excusable if your prophecy was concerning a judgement, and the people repent so the judgement is averted.

Let's forget abt all these shall we? What is past is past. What mistakes are made are made. As long as you repent, God will forgive and will remember them no more. Listen, Benny Hinn has been saving souls all around the globe. If he were from the devil, do you think he'd lead people to Jesus? Obviously no! Anyway, by saving so many souls and being used so mightily by God, of course satan would try to make him fall, try to get people to persecute him. Remember, the Bible also says that real ministers are often persecuted by the people. satan obviously wants to sow discord so that he won't be able to accomplish what God wants him to do. Also, know that satan is called the accuser. he is to one who hurls accuses at us. Anyway, who are we to judge Benny Hinn? Don't fall into the devil's trap and start slandering your own brother. What we should do is to pray about it. Btw, Benny Hinn is not a prophet. He 'specialises' in healing. And one more thing, if he really were a false prophet, would God's presence be felt so strongly in his crusades? Will God even appear for that fact. But God did, and healed people. What's that gotta say? Open your mind and hearts and seek God. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.

I know what you all mean. I can see both sides, I believe God would use the rocks, if know one else will speak, only time will tell, for If he is only in it for the fame or money, God will bring that forth. There is a Great falling away to come, who knows the time for this to come? For he seems to do Good now. So lets pray that he is real, for if he is fake, I would hate to be in his shoes.

Good post MinDach

Welcome to Christian Forums.

Thank You GOOD to be here.

Kellentia said:

Let's forget abt all these shall we? What is past is past. What mistakes are made are made. As long as you repent, God will forgive and will remember them no more.

Click to expand...

God will forgive, but Benny Hinn continues to preach lies. What then should we do? I won't support him. He should be cast out until he *genuinely* repents, and stops preaching lies. And even when he does that, it should be a long time before any of us let him in the pulpit again. He should go through Bible College, and be taught about Christianity, which he pretends to know something about.

Listen, Benny Hinn has been saving souls all around the globe. If he were from the devil, do you think he'd lead people to Jesus? Obviously no! Anyway, by saving so many souls and being used so mightily by God, of course satan would try to make him fall, try to get people to persecute him.

Click to expand...

How do I know these people are genuinely saved? With all the heresy he teaches, I doubt that very many "Hinn" converts are Christians. Of course I don't actually know that, but I base my reasoning on the same that is used to deny Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses as being saved.
Listen to my reasoning: You go to a Benny Hinn crusade. You hear lies preached, and you see people supposedly healed when they are not. You then conclude based on those false doctrines and false miracles that Jesus is alive today, and here is proof of it. Your faith then rests on this farce. One day you discover these for the lies they were. You then must question everything you believe, because it was founded on a lie.
I acknowledge the possibility that some may find genuine salvation through such a horrid display, but they will do so *in spite* of Benny Hinn, not because of. And that is a big difference.
Someone comes to Christ because they think they saw someone healed at a Hinn crusade. They then discover that person was not actually healed. Is their faith on a solid foundation, or is it based on a damnable lie that will shake them when the wind blows?

Remember, the Bible also says that real ministers are often persecuted by the people. satan obviously wants to sow discord so that he won't be able to accomplish what God wants him to do.

Click to expand...

Are you claiming that Benny Hinn is being persecuted because he is a real minister? Read some of the many lies he has said. He has even committed deep blasphemy, calling himself God! (His words: [font=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][size=-1]"SO, I'M BENNY JEHOVAH!" (Spiritual warfare seminar, May 2 1990)).[/size][/font] He participates in necromancy (http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/bhnecro.htm), he constantly makes false prophecy (already mentioned in this thread). He makes absurd interpretations of the Bible that are inaccurate. He knows nothing of reason.
Anyway, this is your argument:
1. Real ministers are often persecuted
2. Benny Hinn is persecuted
3. Therefore Benny Hinn is a real minister
That does not follow. It is possible that Benny Hinn is both persecuted and a false minister. Being persecuted is not a sure sign that you are a real minister.

What kind of Christian would say this:
"Never, ever, ever go the Lord and say, 'If it be thy will....' Don't allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth" (Rise and Be Healed!, 1991, p47-48) - contrast this with James 4:15

More details:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/unmasked_____benny_hinn.html

Also, know that satan is called the accuser. he is to one who hurls accuses at us.

Click to expand...

Also know that your use of the word 'accuser' is an attempt at telling us we have no right to do the same. Yet the Bible tells us in multiple places to test the spirits, be ready with a defence, and not to tolerate those who bring false doctrines. We should be like the Bereans, testing all things against Scripture (Acts 17:10-11). I refuse to withold my tongue on the faulty premise that such actions are purely in the realm of Satan. God Himself stands as a witness against false prophets, and does not tolerate those who practice lies (Revelation 22:15)

Anyway, who are we to judge Benny Hinn? Don't fall into the devil's trap and start slandering your own brother.

Click to expand...

I will not welcome Benny Hinn as a brother. Paul told us to judge other Christians (1 Corinthians 5:11-13). I will not eat with such a one as Benny Hinn, because we are warned in Scripture against such wolves.

What we should do is to pray about it.

Click to expand...

We must pray, and we must act. Paul was not idle in prayer, but also active in deed. I cannot imagine him tolerating Benny Hinn, but would instead list him amongst those false prophets publicly, so that the Church would not be deceived, just as he did in Scripture (2 Timothy 2:16-18).

Btw, Benny Hinn is not a prophet. He 'specialises' in healing.

Click to expand...

He is not a prophet, he is a false prophet - because he makes prophecies that don't come to pass. We are not to be afraid of him, or any of his babbling curses he makes against those who condemn his 'ministry'.

And one more thing, if he really were a false prophet, would God's presence be felt so strongly in his crusades? Will God even appear for that fact.

Click to expand...

Butterflies in your stomach, extreme emotions you feel when going to those crusades, do not mean you are experiencing the presence of God. Let me give you a couple of examples.
1. I listen to a secular song, and feel moved in a way I never felt before. The feeling is identical to that which I get in church while praising God. Is God in that secular song?
2. A hindu goes to a guru to hear him preach. He feels an overwhelming sense of peace, joy and love beyond description. Some near him start laughing, others start crying, all sharing in this feeling. Is God speaking through that Hindu guru?

Subjective emotions are no indication of God's presence. Where does the Bible preach that you will know His works by the feeling of His presence? I will tell you that the Scriptures teach that we know His presence by the fruits. And one of those fruits, listed in many places, is self control (Gal. 5:23), and many times in Scripture through reading other Scriptures, understanding, rebuking and correcting. How can we judge unless we study the Scriptures? And when we study the Scriptures, they stand in stark contrast to Benny Hinn's 'ministry'. Therefore, his fruits are deception and lies, and therefore it is not God's presence you sense at his meetings.

But God did, and healed people. What's that gotta say?

Click to expand...

Healed people? You mean like the time when a lady fell over from his (Benny's) amazing power, and then another man fell on top of her, crushed her hip and she died? or like the time when Benny prophesied that a man with cancer would live many years more, and in fact died 2 days later? Read here:

[Other examples of Hinn's false healing powers: An elderly Hinn follower was turned away from one entrance to ARGO Stadium in Sacramento, CA because she had not given enough money to enter there. Later, on the stage she was "slain in the Spirit," and while she was lying on the floor a huge man, likewise "slain," landed on top of her, breaking her leg. In 1993 in Basel, Switzerland, Hinn prophesied over a man with cancer that he had many years to live. He died two days later. In Nairobi, Kenya early in May 2000, four patients released from a hospital to attend Hinn's "Miracle Crusade" died while waiting for prayer. (Source: 9/00, TBC.)]

Click to expand...

From here - http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hinn/general.htm

I have no interest in that kind of healing. I watched a sunday morning show once about Benny Hinn. They looked at a number of his "healings", and followed those people up afterwards. None of them had been healed, but on the night they had felt different. Some even aggravated their injuries due to a stubborn belief that they had been healed.

Open your mind and hearts and seek God. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.

Click to expand...

I have, and the Holy Spirit opened up the Bible and showed me, over many months, the hundreds of reasons why today's charismatic movement is not from Him.

Can you please explain anointing into the office of prophet? How does that happen. Have your prophicies ever been wrong?

Click to expand...

doc,

Prophesying in the New Testament church is simply speaking forth words of encouragement, edification and exhortation that are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

For example, if a brother comes to you downcast and sorrowful about something, and as he tells you about it, and as you listen, you are inspired to encourage and uplift him, and you speak certain words to him (of cse, statements that dont contradict scripture) that really edifies, encourages and exhorts him, then you have prophesied to him! That is prophesying in the simplest form. And any Christian who is willing to be used by the Spirit can do this. The scripture for NT prophesying is this:

1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

But this does not make you a Prophet. You can't claim to be a prophet just becos you can do this. You are a Prophet standing in the office of a Prophet only if God has called you to be one, just as he may have called another to be a Teacher or an Evanglelist or a Pastor -- all office/ministry giftings.

Telling future events: This forms part of prophesying in the NT. But somehow, Christians today think that prophesying is all about this only -- predicting the future. It is not. It is unto comfort exhortation and edification.

[n]So, even if a prophet does predict a tornado coming to town on say Jan 1, 2004, the prophecy MUST comfort, edify and exhort! Otherwise, reject it! IOW, somewhere in that prophecy, God must also give the way out -- the way of escape, telling his people what to do.[/n]

Hence, we reject any prophecy that simply says God's gonna hammer you becos you've been bad and there's no way out. Don't waste your time with such doom and gloom prophecies. We are still in the dispensation of grace.

My Pastor has prophesied things that have come to pass. But he does not claim to be a prophet and has stated so plainly.