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Ben, Dharma, and the Island

Thinker

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A number of things 'clicked' for me with episode 4.04. There are still plenty of gaps, but an outline emerges.

1) We know from Bens flashback that his Dad was recruited to be a low level Dharma functionary - the maintainence man, actually.

2) We also know from that flashback that Ben was directly responsible for betrayal and destruction of the Dharma folk.

3) We also know that Ben has a 'connection' with the island something like that of Lockes.

4) We know that even though the orginal Dharma folk are long dead, Dharma brand merchandise has been falling out of the sky (literally) ever since. This gives rise to the question 'Why would Dharma continue to supply an operation in which everybody is dead?'

5) Going back a bit, we know that first Kelvin and then Desmond were both very very concerned about some sort of devastating plague on the island. Kelvin, at least, appeared to be legit Dharma personel - although, one who'd been abandoned for a very long time. Note, though, that Kelvin, possibly unlike previous Swan station personel, was apparently posted to this station from off the island, and episode 4.03 shows some serious 'time' issues between the island and the rest of the world. This, however is secondary.

6) We know that the 'Others', up until the destuction of their submarine, were able to come and go to the island at will, and had some sort of 'infrastructure' going in other countries.

7) And most importantly, Ben *LIES*. He has lied extensively in almost every episode he has appeared in, and has shown great skill in manipulating people (most recently with Locke in episode 4.04). Once or twice he has actually boasted about this skill of his.

Putting this together:

The Dharma people had apparently been in a state of war with the 'hostiles' since coming to the island. (from Bens flashback).

Ben arranged for the 'hostiles' ('Others') to wipe out the Dharma presence *ON THE ISLAND*.

Then Ben put his marvelous skill at deception and manipulation to work. Somehow, he convinced the *mainland* branch of Dharma that the 'purge' was far less successful than it really was. Probably, this false story was along the lines that all but a couple of the Dharma bases had been wiped out by a plague and the survivors attacked by the hostiles. The remaining Dharma people had a resistance to the plague and a very shaky truce with the 'hostiles' was now in effect, and that the remaining Dharma folks were in dire danger if they left these last remaining redoubts.

The mainland Dharma folk though put such a high importance on the research that they wished to continue with it.

Ben told them this might be possible...with certain heavy restrictions.

So...Dharma continues to send people and supplies to the island - with Ben in control.

The thing with this approach, though, is it argues against the 'Freighter People' being part of the mainland Dharma operation, because presumably those people would already *know* how to get to the island, even if they did believe it a plague zone overun with 'hostiles'.

The 'Freighter People' knew about the island - but not how to get there.
 

snoochface

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Good thoughts, Thinker.

I think there was an actual plague of some sort, though. Danielle said that her entire party was wiped out by it. I believe she said something like, "One by one they all died from it." That was 16 years ago, so it is possible they were hit by the purge since we don't really know when that took place. I don't think so, though, because she seemed to describe a much slower process of death than the purge.

Also, I think that Dharma kept making the airdrops and believing everything was copasetic on the island because a) the numbers were being entered, and b) no one beat Mikhail's chess game.

Those may be triggers to two separate entities: the hatch implosion and release of the electromagnetic field may have triggered the freighter and allowed them to find a location (it did for Penny's boat), and the chess game (Enter 77) would have notified Dharma that the hostiles had "won" and taken over.
 
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snoochface

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Playing on my idea that Ben was once a Dharma guy that defected, the main group may not know of his defection and he could use this to convince them that things were ok still
Well that's a good point, and really the most logical answer. :thumbsup:

We know he worked for Dharma -- he was wearing the jumpsuit and working with his father when he killed him and caused the purge. So it's very logical to think that he would be able to communicate with the mainland Dharma people and lead them to believe everything was basically okay.
 
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Thinker

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Another thought comes to mind here.

To get in good with the 'mainland' branch of Dharma, Ben would have needed money.

Some of what the old Dharma crew was screwing around with on the island prior to their untimely demise could very well have been worth a lot of money.

The ghostbuster guy *knew* that Ben had access to millions of dollars.

So...suppose:

Ben decides he needs money to keep the wheels at Dharma moving - submarine maintainece ain't cheap, and neither is arranging to have food fall out of the sky. So, he takes some of the more interesting bits and pieces from the old operation and goes to ...somebody. Somebody with a *lot* of money. That somebody fronts Ben enough money to keep the wheels turning - but expects Ben to keep on forking over the goodies. Instead, Ben pulls a vanishing act (goes back to the island).

So, now we have a powerful and wealthy 'somebody' out there who *knows* that some very interesting and impressive things can be done, presumably knows something about the island...but not much beyond that. That 'somebody' is likely behind the 'freighter people'.
 
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Thinker

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Perhaps that is part of the Penny connect...maybe her dad?
Not Penny...because she seemed sincere in her denial about the boat when speaking with Charlie. Her dad, though, is a distinct possibility. In that case Naomi would have been given the photograph by him, and a mission by him concerning Desmond, with Penny left out of the loop. That still doesn't entirely fit, though...

In this situation, though, who was sponsoring Henry Gale (the dead balloninst) - Penny or her father?
 
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PETE_

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Not Penny...because she seemed sincere in her denial about the boat when speaking with Charlie. Her dad, though, is a distinct possibility. In that case Naomi would have been given the photograph by him, and a mission by him concerning Desmond, with Penny left out of the loop. That still doesn't entirely fit, though...

In this situation, though, who was sponsoring Henry Gale (the dead balloninst) - Penny or her father?
Also the photo of Desmond/Penny that Naomi has is not Penny, same everything in the photo, but different girl. Also why did Naomi have the photo if that was not their mission unless there was a connection
 
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BenAdam

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Also the photo of Desmond/Penny that Naomi has is not Penny, same everything in the photo, but different girl. Also why did Naomi have the photo if that was not their mission unless there was a connection
Yes it is Penny.
 
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snoochface

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I think it is the same girl. But they are obviously different pictures. That's a great catch, Pete, I never noticed this before!

lost_desmondphoto.jpg
 
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FatBurger

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Could be a different actress - the picture appeared long before Penny did, so they could have had the picture before they cast Penny herself.

Also, I'd argue that we don't know #3 for sure, but it's not really a big deal either way. I think that the purge could well be what killed off Danielle's team - note that Alex isn't seen anywhere in the purge flashback. It would make a lot of sense if Danielle's team is killed in the purge, and then shortly later they come and take Alex.

The only problem with this is Danielle's description that the "sickness" turned her crewmates crazy.
 
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snoochface

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Could be a different actress - the picture appeared long before Penny did, so they could have had the picture before they cast Penny herself.

It could even be just a continuity error (but I'm really hoping not -- that would be disappointing).

Also, I'd argue that we don't know #3 for sure, but it's not really a big deal either way. I think that the purge could well be what killed off Danielle's team - note that Alex isn't seen anywhere in the purge flashback. It would make a lot of sense if Danielle's team is killed in the purge, and then shortly later they come and take Alex.

The only problem with this is Danielle's description that the "sickness" turned her crewmates crazy.

Yeah, the crazy factor doesn't sound like what happened in the purge. And if it were the purge, why wouldn't Alex have also died? Unless they took her first.
 
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knownbeforetime

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It has been my theory that Mikhail was original Dharma and was recruited alongside Ben. Ben had the simple job of unleashing the poison gas. Mikhail's job was to make sure that Dharma didn't find out by controlling communications to and from the island (never finishing that chess game).

Then you have Locke, who can't keep his hands to himself, finish the chess game, blow up the station, thereby alerting Dharma that something is terribly wrong and launching an investigation and a freighter.

I like this theory because that would mean that Locke brought the freighter to the island in the first place and now he's trying to hide from them. LOL
 
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PETE_

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The first picture of Penny is with a different actress. By the time they got to the season 2 finale they had hired a different one so they "updated" the photo. Not a continuity error, a realistic problem with TV shows.
they still could have used the same clothing on the new actress. The fact that they did not leads me to think it was for a specific reason
 
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