Ben Adam?

[seeingeyes]

no one understands you I bet

I do.

It takes a little while to learn the language, though. I know that my brother, x141, is sitting at a computer, but I always picture him as a Russian monk, sitting in a cave somewhere, speaking the truth in love to whoever happens by, or preaching even to the squirrels if no one else is around to hear God's truth.

I love you, x, you stretch my brain.

Can anyone wrap their theological mind around Ben Adam? Wasn't Adam ignorant of sin before his fist sin? And if so, how could Jesus have been Adam? Would it be possible for Him not to know, even before time, about the knowledge of good and evil?

I don't know if I am understanding the question right, but consider this for a moment: Is knowing the difference between good and evil a 'good' thing or a 'bad' thing?

 

[Fireinfolding]

To be truthful sometimes I cannot understand x at all (or I can) but it depends its not a consistent thing between us (we rarely talk). And I have told him the same before that we dont communicate well (or rather) we cannot discuss things in a back and forth manner. I havent written him off, because he has shared things I got immediately (and agreed to) but then again (other things) I might get fustrated by him because of how he might make leaps to communicate it. Whereas I might catch something far better by way of careful comparing (so as not to miss a step) he might take bigger leaps (not connecting) a bit more closely for the hearer as to how he makes those leaps. The person listening (if not familar enough) might think he has lost his marbles.

Thats not a plug for him (or anything) because I dont like to plug anyone (to) anyone else as we are to prove all things, and we all start out seeing and knowing in part (and grow). But I will say you cannot write off everyone just because you might not understand what they are saying (on everything) take what you can receive and let the rest fall to the wayside (of what you cannot). We each have a measure, we can only receive what we are able for and we can also go above our own measure into la la land (also).

 

[rdcast]

[/font]
In 1 Timothy 2:14. Adam and Eve are sort of figures of Christ and the church.


Since Adam continued to live, it's obvious God didn't mean he would drop dead the very same day he ate the fruit. Look at this:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. KJV

Is God saying Adam will die the same day he eats the fruit, or only that he will die if he eats the fruit? Both ways fit.

Here is Youngs Literal Translation:

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.' Gen.2:17

It seems God was just telling Adam that the fruit would cause his death.

So he wasn't deceived, then why would he sin against the command from God?

About the day Adam died...
2 Peter 3:8 (21st Century King James Version)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Get that? God's day is our thousand years. Adam died at the age of 930 years old, 70 man-years short of a full God-day. He died that selfsame day!

 

[rdcast]

A different take on this is that Adam died *spiritually* the day he ate the fruit. This broke the relationship he had previously enjoyed with God, which is borne out as you read the rest of the story.

Yes, that is a given.

 

[rdcast]

Perhaps not ... but what has it to do with me anyway ...

Jesus is the way the truth and the life, all those who are taught of the Father come to him, come to this sonship. It is only through identification with our Father that we come to know him.

The word of God is as the son/sons of God, it/he/we have no height, depth, width, length, it is not a place of measurement. If we hold anything he gives to us from day to day as an absolute truth then we build a city and name it and we go no further in the understanding of who we have been created to be in him. It is an ascending forever or a kingdom whose increase has no end.

Your words don't lead to repentance. Only a good scratching of the head.

 

[rdcast]

Am I the only one who just read this whole thread and doesn't have a clue what anyone is talking about?

-CryptoLutheran

Perhaps. The question is how can Jesus Christ be Adam? The term Ben Adam means Adam before he sinned. Apparently there are people who believe Jesus Christ was pre-sin Adam.

I raised the question, how could Jesus Christ be Adam before Adam knew about the knowledge of good and evil. It would seem to me that Jesus Christ would have had to forget about what He know from before time began.

 

[rdcast]

I do.

It takes a little while to learn the language, though. I know that my brother, x141, is sitting at a computer, but I always picture him as a Russian monk, sitting in a cave somewhere, speaking the truth in love to whoever happens by, or preaching even to the squirrels if no one else is around to hear God's truth.

I love you, x, you stretch my brain.

I don't know if I am understanding the question right, but consider this for a moment: Is knowing the difference between good and evil a 'good' thing or a 'bad' thing?

You have a wonderful opinion of your brother and I concur, he stretches my brain as well.

About the importance of knowing the difference between good and evil. It happens to be the most important ingredient in the surrendering of our free will. If we couldn't discern the difference, we'd be morally blind and incapable of finding the good in God contrasting against our defiant sinful nature.

x141 has a gifted sister.

 

[Jonathan95]

Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

If the seventh, seventy (seventh month, seventy years, seventy elders, seventy weeks, etc. etc. ), have struck a chord with you than it is the spirit that dwells in you that has plucked the chord, he will lead you into this all truth that has no end and then you may find that Mary's supposition takes on a new light of it's own.

Well she was in a garden. Jesus was buried in the garden tomb. Why is it weird she thought Jesus was the gardener? Doesn't mean Jesus is a gardener lol.

 

[rdcast]

To be truthful sometimes I cannot understand x at all (or I can) but it depends its not a consistent thing between us (we rarely talk). And I have told him the same before that we dont communicate well (or rather) we cannot discuss things in a back and forth manner. I havent written him off, because he has shared things I got immediately (and agreed to) but then again (other things) I might get fustrated by him because of how he might make leaps to communicate it. Whereas I might catch something far better by way of careful comparing (so as not to miss a step) he might take bigger leaps (not connecting) a bit more closely for the hearer as to how he makes those leaps. The person listening (if not familar enough) might think he has lost his marbles.

Thats not a plug for him (or anything) because I dont like to plug anyone (to) anyone else as we are to prove all things, and we all start out seeing and knowing in part (and grow). But I will say you cannot write off everyone just because you might not understand what they are saying (on everything) take what you can receive and let the rest fall to the wayside (of what you cannot). We each have a measure, we can only receive what we are able for and we can also go above our own measure into la la land (also).

If we have a gift, as x141 certainly does, we owe it to our faith to be concise in how we use it in our witness. Otherwise, vanity will slay what might have been a profound word from God. Just remember, it's never us, but God who performs great and marvelous things and when He does by choosing us to perform it through, we better be mindful of our vain, self-serving nature. When a follower of Jesus Christ says something that is difficult to decipher, it either means that person is speaking gibberish, or the message is being tampered with for reasons not for the glory of God. Just because Jesus Christ spoke in parables, doesn't mean we should emulate that. Otherwise, we might come off as wanting to be Christ himself.

 

[Fireinfolding]

If we have a gift, as x141 certainly does, we owe it to our faith to be concise in how we use it in our witness. Otherwise, vanity will slay what might have been a profound word from God. Just remember, it's never us, but God who performs great and marvelous things and when He does by choosing us to perform it through, we better be mindful of our vain, self-serving nature. When a follower of Jesus Christ says something that is difficult to decipher, it either means that person is speaking gibberish, or the message is being tampered with for self-serving purposes. Just because Jesus Christ spoke in parables, doesn't mean we should emulate that. Otherwise, we might come off as wanting to be Christ himself.

I dont disagree a measure of discernment is needed to know who it is you are speaking to and how it is you might speak to them. Thats just as much a part of muturity and no one is beyond correction.

So no, I dont regard anyone (or myself even) as being beyond correction and its always a good thing to prove all things (I would never encourage you otherwise).

And yes we can go off into vain jangling (even of mysteries we believe ourselves to know) which are of no profit to the other unable to receive them (and often to the confusion of the hearer). Even Paul spake of how he could not speak out of his discerning their state (and ability).

Just continue in the words of Christ

 

[x141]

Your words don't lead to repentance. Only a good scratching of the head.

True repentance is a turning to see, much as Job, ... but God turns us, we can not turn ourselves ... like Mary, who turned herself, who is one of four of the progressive picture of the process of our soul.

For Peter, that day on the roof top, he never ate or came to understand that what God had cleansed call thou not unclean, and this he walked out having never obeyed the command to rise and eat; but again, nothing is out of place.

As for a head scratching, that's exactly what we need to lose ... anything that has more than one head is a monster/beast.

 

[seeingeyes]

About the importance of knowing the difference between good and evil. It happens to be the most important ingredient in the surrendering of our free will. If we couldn't discern the difference, we'd be morally blind and incapable of finding the good in God contrasting against our defiant sinful nature.

So then being able to tell the difference between good and evil is a good thing? If it is, then why did God tell Adam not to eat of that tree?

 

[rdcast]

I dont disagree a measure of discernment is needed to know who it is you are speaking to and how it is you might speak to them. Thats just as much a part of muturity and no one is beyond correction.

So no, I dont regard anyone (or myself even) as being beyond correction and its always a good thing to prove all things (I would never encourage you otherwise).

And yes we can go off into vain jangling (even of mysteries we believe ourselves to know) which are of no profit to the other unable to receive them (and often to the confusion of the hearer). Even Paul spake of how he could not speak out of his discerning their state (and ability).

Just continue in the words of Christ

Yes, a spirit of confusion must be guarded against. I've been guilty of it on occasion.

 

[rdcast]

So then being able to tell the difference between good and evil is a good thing? If it is, then why did God tell Adam not to eat of that tree?

It is a very essential first step of our journey and points to God's love for us. It is a gift to be able to sin for the sake of finding God. Without it, how would we know. God would never say, go sin, even while knowing we must in order to fathom the value of righteousness. So, how was it a sin, if it weren't for the fact God presented a command for that purpose to begin the journey? You can see the perfection of God in the structure of how the "first sin" was conceived. When you tell a child who has never been burned, do not play with fire, the child will eventually discover and gain a kind of reverence for your loving, righteous wisdom.

 

[rdcast]

True repentance is a turning to see, much as Job, ... but God turns us, we can not turn ourselves ... like Mary, who turned herself, who is one of four of the progressive picture of the process of our soul.

For Peter, that day on the roof top, he never ate or came to understand that what God had cleansed call thou not unclean, and this he walked out having never obeyed the command to rise and eat; but again, nothing is out of place.

As for a head scratching, that's exactly what we need to lose ... anything that has more than one head is a monster/beast.

I will agree that repentance requires God's foretelling of events.

 

[seeingeyes]

It is a very essential first step of our journey and points to God's love for us. It is a gift to be able to sin for the sake of finding God. Without it, how would we know. God would never say, go sin, even while knowing we must in order to fathom the value of righteousness. So, how was it a sin, if it weren't for the fact God presented a command for that purpose to begin the journey? You can see the perfection of God in the structure of how the "first sin" was conceived. When you tell a child who has never been burned, do not play with fire, the child will eventually discover and gain a kind of reverence for your loving, righteous wisdom.

When I tell my child not to play with fire, it's because being burned is a 'bad' thing for them. So if I tell my children not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it would be because the knowledge of good and evil would be a 'bad' thing for them, no?

I'm not trying to play word games, just trying to get your take on the matter clear in my head.

 

[rdcast]

When I tell my child not to play with fire, it's because being burned is a 'bad' thing for them. So if I tell my children not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it would be because the knowledge of good and evil would be a 'bad' thing for them, no?

I'm not trying to play word games, just trying to get your take on the matter clear in my head.

It is a very bad thing for a soul not prepared with Heavenly support to use it as a way to be created in the image of God.

Let Us create man in Our Image... of course, that means knowing what good and evil is. Otherwise, none of us could become children of God and enter therein to His Holy Kingdom.

 

[seeingeyes]

It is a very bad thing for a soul not prepared with Heavenly support to use it as a way to be created in the image of God.

Let Us create man in Our Image... of course, that means knowing what good and evil is. Otherwise, none of us could become children of God and enter therein to His Holy Kingdom.

So that would mean that Adam already knew good and evil before he ate from the tree.

 

[rdcast]

So that would mean that Adam already knew good and evil before he ate from the tree.

Not so. For one, he had no concept of disobedience. I believe your brother pointed out that he wasn't deceived of the serpent. So it would appear Adam knew better than to entertain God would lie to him, but he had never experienced disobedience and knew nothing of its consequences. God has provided us with a protected way to explore what sin brings.

Your question is a very good one.

 

[rdcast]

So that would mean that Adam already knew good and evil before he ate from the tree.

Ah, I see. Adam wasn't prepared to enter into the Kingdom of God as a faithful child of God. He was sinless without temptation. In other words, Adam was like a handle without a pot. He couldn't hold water. Perhaps it was like still being in the womb.