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Believers not under the "tithe."

Bob corrigan

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I might as well wade in on this subject. Let me say up front that I am not suggesting that believers are not supposed to give money, or donate items for those in need. God is very clear in Scripture that sheep are to help out other believers or strangers who lack if they are aware of needs, James 2:14-17. Sigh, I already know that some of you will think that I am of the, "works get you saved camp." I'm not. Scripture teaches that true faith is made manifest by the doing of good works:
Mat 5:16
Acts 9:36
2Cor 9:8
Eph 2:10
Col 1:10
2Thes 2:17
1Tim 2:10, 5:10,25
James 2:18
True giving, giving from the heart is not demonstrated by giving money for overseas projects, building schools, orphanages, digging water wells, providing clothing, shoes and as one pastors wife loves to brag on herself about, "building playgrounds" for children in war torn countries, (Really?) If you aren't aware, out of all of the money given for overseas projects, on average, only 8% actually goes overseas! You can check that out for yourself. Another thing you can investigate is that of all the money collected in church buildings, about 89% goes for salaries, insurance premiums for staff members, church investments,(of which congregations are never told of or given a share in financial gains), the building mortgage and utilities. One thing that burns me up is nepotism, the hiring of family and friends for staff positions! This should be outlawed in every state. According to Scripture, there only three things that money given is to be used for:
Paying the preacher.
Helping out other needy believers. We are to help non-believers, even our enemies on an individual bases, not some ministry designated to help specific groups.
Supporting missionaries.
That is it! There is not on example in all of Scripture where a group of believers started a "ministry" to bless pagans by doing good things and then "introducing" them to God/Jesus. There is no teaching to "expand/grow the kingdom." In 2021, churchgoers gave $50 billion in donations! 50 billion? And how was the 50 billion used? Even 1 billion would dig a lot of water wells, right? Or construct a lot of buildings, right? But what do we see? Nothing was done with that enormous amount of money. No, it went into church bank accounts, "new hires," new, start-up "ministries," bigger houses, and fancier cars for pastors or into people's pockets! Remember the poor widow's giving of two mites, Mk 12:42-44? We know that Jesus and his 12 disciples had some money with them. Jesus knew the widow was poor, yet, he didn't give her anything. In no way am I criticizing Jesus, just pointing it out. Was there not a need?
In almost every church building, there are three groups who can always use financial help or help in other areas, single moms, the working poor and the older folks, widows, and widowers, who struggle to make ends meet every month. Yet, what is being done for these "members" of the congregation? You will hear about," how to reach JW's, Mormons, Muslims and SDA's," but not, "Let's take up a collection for our single moms." You will hear about "why evolution is not true," rather than, "We are looking for some people to help out our seniors." You will hear about, "Your identity in Christ," not, "The Smiths need their car fixed."
One of the most common statements made from the pulpits is, "God doesn't need your money," a true statement. But, if this is a fact, why are pastors, staff members, and guest speakers always begging for more money? Why is there always a "new" need that can only be solved by more people giving more money? The underlying guilt trip placed on people is that it "is God's work!" How many times throughout the year are the members of a congregation "reminded" either directly or by implication that they are not giving enough money? In how many sermons, which have nothing to do about giving money, do pastors manage to find a way to include a comment about "giving more money?" How many times have people heard, "The only way to show you are not greedy is to give more money," or "people who don't give have a spirit of greed." People are told that giving money is a form of worship. When you boil it down, one of the main, and most important themes in church buildings is this, the only way to show and know that you are a believer is that you give a large percentage of your money to "God."
If a "church" wants to be biblical in it's teaching on giving money, then it needs to follow what is shown in Scripture. First and foremost, before any money given by the members of a "church" is sent outside of the "church," for other purposes, the needs of every member of that church should be met, Gal 6:10. After the work of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 and the preaching of Peter, many of the visiting Jews from other lands decided to stay and did not return home. But these believing Jews had not planned on staying and were not prepared for an extended stay in Jerusalem. These Jews needed food and shelter. Notice at no time were these Jews instructed that they '"needed to go home and take care of themselves," as learning what Scripture teaches is the single most important thing for a believer. The number of Jews from other countries and lands that stayed was huge, about 3000!, Acts 2:41, ( this was not the first "mega church" as some like to proclaim. Neither did this number include any Gentiles! There is no concept of the "church" or "Gentile church" in Scripture. The word "church" is a pagan concept forced into English translations. There was an explosion of Jews coming to the knowledge of faith starting in Acts 2, not Gentiles! Cornelius, who scholars and historians all agree was the first Gentile to be reached with the good news, did not meet with Peter, Acts 10:1-24 until 8 years after the events of Acts 2. In the events of Paul being struck blind on the road to Damascus, Acts 9:1-20, God told Ananias that Paul "was a chosen vessel to bear His name before Gentiles, kings and fellow Jews." Did Paul immediately start preaching to Gentiles? No! He focused on teaching Jews, Acts 9:20. For many years, Paul only sought to teach Jews. At first, when Paul arrived in an area he had never been in before, he always went to the synagogues! Before Paul was blinded, Jesus had spoken to Paul while Stephen was being stoned and told him that He was going to be sent to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. It was not until roughly 52 A.D., 22 years after Acts 2, that Paul declared he would now teach the good news to Gentiles, Acts 13:46. Where does Scripture teach that God would use the Gentiles to bring the good news to the Jews? NO! God had always purposed that the gospel would come to Gentiles through the Jews!)
How were the believing Jews, who lived in and around Jerusalem, supposed to help out 3000 new Jewish believers? They had to not only open up their homes to house these new Jewish believers, they had to raise money. What was the soultion? Did the Apostles start a fund drive to buy land and erect new and exspensive "church buildings?" No, the more affluent Jewish believers sold off their possessions and property and gave the money to the Apostles, Acts 2:42-46. Vs 45 teaches that all of the new believers that lacked something had their needs met. Who only was helped? Was there any assistance offered to non-believing Jews? Was there a program set up to help out all of the poor Jews, believers or not, or any needy, non-believing Gentiles in the region? No, this was strictly believers only helping out other believers! Yet, more and more new Jewish believers were coming to faith, Acts 2:47. Most of the new Jewish believers were what we would classify as the "working-class poor," in that most of them had to struggle to live and survive day by day. They weren't able to give anything, rather they needed help. More new believers with needs meant that more money had to be raised so once again, the affluent Jewish believers again provided more money to assist the growing number of new Jewish believers, Acts 4:32-35. Again, believers helping out other believers. Not once during these two times of the affluent giving money and assistance is there any mention of the Apostles giving sermons, any teaching or urging about giving money, or urging believers to "give more." The Apostles never taught about "giving your tithe" or "sacrificial giving!" (you won't find the phrase "sacrificial giving" in Scripture). This was a classic example of what Paul taught in 2Cor 9:7, "Each of you should give just as he has decided/purposed in his heart (mind), not reluctantly or under compulsion (being forced or pressured). All throughout Scripture, when it comes to voluntary giving of one's material wealth, there was never a standard or percentage set as to the amount one should give! 1Cor 16:2 "...let every one of you lay aside as God has prospered him..." Has God given the same amount of prosperity to all sheep? Of course not. Some can give more than others. Paul taught that each person gives what they can afford and what they are comfortable giving, not a set percentage, like ten percent of your money! Every time Paul spoke of collecting money from believers, it was only in reference to providing assistance to the needy saints in Jerusalem, nothing else. Whenever Paul spoke of collecting money, he never once spoke of sheep having to give a "tithe" of what they earned! In all of Paul's writing, he never once used the word "tithe." Acts 4:36-37 doesn't say Barnabas gave a "tithe" of the money he made from selling some land. In the stunt pulled by Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 5:1-10, Peter didn't talk about how they hadn't given a "tithe" of the proceeds. God didn't take their lives because they hadn't "tithed" on the proceeds of selling their land. What were the Gentile believers instructed to do by the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29? Vs 28-29, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That you abstain from meats offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from fornication..." Hmm, no mention of giving a "tithe" of their income or material wealth! If you understand how Scripture is laid out, it is easy to see that there is not one command or teaching in the New Testament that believers are required to "tithe" to the "church," or God, on their income, as it is crammed down the throat of people sitting in the pews! Just keep reading.
First, I am going to address the five passages used to teach that believers are required and commanded by Scripture to "tithe." The most popular verse used to teach that all believers are required to "tithe" is, of course, Gen 14:20! And the pastors love to include, "See, tithing predates the Mosaic Law!" If that is true, where do we see God commanding believers to tithe before Moses taught it in Lev 27:30? Show me the verse or verses! We don't see Adam, Seth, or Noah "tithing." Where is the verse that states that God commanded Abraham to "tithe?" This is just another classic example of pastors saying, "The bible says/teaches such and such," but they can't show you where the bible says or teaches "such and such." Tithing was a common practice among many of the pagan nations in existence during the days of Abraham. If you separate, isolate and read Gen 14:20 alone, it seems to say that Abraham gave a "tithe" of everything he owned, all of his material goods. But that is not what is going on. If we look at Heb 7:4, (A verse that is never pointed out when trying to con people about the requirement of believers having to tithe), "Now consider how great this man was, upon whom the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils." Spoils were any property, animals, food, etc., that a victor took after defeating an enemy in battle. Thus we see that rather than Abraham giving a "tithe" of all he owned, he only gave a tenth of the spoils he returned with. To bring clarity, Gen 14:20 should be translated, "...And Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of the spoil he returned with." The word "tithe" means a tenth. But what Abraham tithed is completely unrelated or connected to what Moses taught about what was to be tithed. Outside of Gen 14:20, there is no mention of Abraham tithing before or after this one-time event. So, you cannot use Abraham as an example of a pattern or routine of regularly giving a "tithe."
After this false example of tithing on one's personal wealth, the next favorite passage to twist is Gen 28:20-22. Jacob is Abraham's grandson. Isaac is Abraham's son, but we never see Isaac "tithing" or God commanding Issac to tithe. Jacob vowed to give the tenth if God would ensure that Jacob made it safely back to his father's house. In Gen 35:29, we see that Jacob did indeed make it back to his father's house and buried his father. End of part 1.
 

Bob corrigan

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I might as well wade in on this subject. Let me say up front that I am not suggesting that believers are not supposed to give money, or donate items for those in need. God is very clear in Scripture that sheep are to help out other believers or strangers who lack if they are aware of needs, James 2:14-17. Sigh, I already know that some of you will think that I am of the, "works get you saved camp." I'm not. Scripture teaches that true faith is made manifest by the doing of good works:
Mat 5:16
Acts 9:36
2Cor 9:8
Eph 2:10
Col 1:10
2Thes 2:17
1Tim 2:10, 5:10,25
James 2:18
True giving, giving from the heart is not demonstrated by giving money for overseas projects, building schools, orphanages, digging water wells, providing clothing, shoes and as one pastors wife loves to brag on herself about, "building playgrounds" for children in war torn countries, (Really?) If you aren't aware, out of all of the money given for overseas projects, on average, only 8% actually goes overseas! You can check that out for yourself. Another thing you can investigate is that of all the money collected in church buildings, about 89% goes for salaries, insurance premiums for staff members, church investments,(of which congregations are never told of or given a share in financial gains), the building mortgage and utilities. One thing that burns me up is nepotism, the hiring of family and friends for staff positions! This should be outlawed in every state. According to Scripture, there only three things that money given is to be used for:
Paying the preacher.
Helping out other needy believers. We are to help non-believers, even our enemies on an individual bases, not some ministry designated to help specific groups.
Supporting missionaries.
That is it! There is not on example in all of Scripture where a group of believers started a "ministry" to bless pagans by doing good things and then "introducing" them to God/Jesus. There is no teaching to "expand/grow the kingdom." In 2021, churchgoers gave $50 billion in donations! 50 billion? And how was the 50 billion used? Even 1 billion would dig a lot of water wells, right? Or construct a lot of buildings, right? But what do we see? Nothing was done with that enormous amount of money. No, it went into church bank accounts, "new hires," new, start-up "ministries," bigger houses, and fancier cars for pastors or into people's pockets! Remember the poor widow's giving of two mites, Mk 12:42-44? We know that Jesus and his 12 disciples had some money with them. Jesus knew the widow was poor, yet, he didn't give her anything. In no way am I criticizing Jesus, just pointing it out. Was there not a need?
In almost every church building, there are three groups who can always use financial help or help in other areas, single moms, the working poor and the older folks, widows, and widowers, who struggle to make ends meet every month. Yet, what is being done for these "members" of the congregation? You will hear about," how to reach JW's, Mormons, Muslims and SDA's," but not, "Let's take up a collection for our single moms." You will hear about "why evolution is not true," rather than, "We are looking for some people to help out our seniors." You will hear about, "Your identity in Christ," not, "The Smiths need their car fixed."
One of the most common statements made from the pulpits is, "God doesn't need your money," a true statement. But, if this is a fact, why are pastors, staff members, and guest speakers always begging for more money? Why is there always a "new" need that can only be solved by more people giving more money? The underlying guilt trip placed on people is that it "is God's work!" How many times throughout the year are the members of a congregation "reminded" either directly or by implication that they are not giving enough money? In how many sermons, which have nothing to do about giving money, do pastors manage to find a way to include a comment about "giving more money?" How many times have people heard, "The only way to show you are not greedy is to give more money," or "people who don't give have a spirit of greed." People are told that giving money is a form of worship. When you boil it down, one of the main, and most important themes in church buildings is this, the only way to show and know that you are a believer is that you give a large percentage of your money to "God."
If a "church" wants to be biblical in it's teaching on giving money, then it needs to follow what is shown in Scripture. First and foremost, before any money given by the members of a "church" is sent outside of the "church," for other purposes, the needs of every member of that church should be met, Gal 6:10. After the work of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 and the preaching of Peter, many of the visiting Jews from other lands decided to stay and did not return home. But these believing Jews had not planned on staying and were not prepared for an extended stay in Jerusalem. These Jews needed food and shelter. Notice at no time were these Jews instructed that they '"needed to go home and take care of themselves," as learning what Scripture teaches is the single most important thing for a believer. The number of Jews from other countries and lands that stayed was huge, about 3000!, Acts 2:41, ( this was not the first "mega church" as some like to proclaim. Neither did this number include any Gentiles! There is no concept of the "church" or "Gentile church" in Scripture. The word "church" is a pagan concept forced into English translations. There was an explosion of Jews coming to the knowledge of faith starting in Acts 2, not Gentiles! Cornelius, who scholars and historians all agree was the first Gentile to be reached with the good news, did not meet with Peter, Acts 10:1-24 until 8 years after the events of Acts 2. In the events of Paul being struck blind on the road to Damascus, Acts 9:1-20, God told Ananias that Paul "was a chosen vessel to bear His name before Gentiles, kings and fellow Jews." Did Paul immediately start preaching to Gentiles? No! He focused on teaching Jews, Acts 9:20. For many years, Paul only sought to teach Jews. At first, when Paul arrived in an area he had never been in before, he always went to the synagogues! Before Paul was blinded, Jesus had spoken to Paul while Stephen was being stoned and told him that He was going to be sent to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. It was not until roughly 52 A.D., 22 years after Acts 2, that Paul declared he would now teach the good news to Gentiles, Acts 13:46. Where does Scripture teach that God would use the Gentiles to bring the good news to the Jews? NO! God had always purposed that the gospel would come to Gentiles through the Jews!)
How were the believing Jews, who lived in and around Jerusalem, supposed to help out 3000 new Jewish believers? They had to not only open up their homes to house these new Jewish believers, they had to raise money. What was the soultion? Did the Apostles start a fund drive to buy land and erect new and exspensive "church buildings?" No, the more affluent Jewish believers sold off their possessions and property and gave the money to the Apostles, Acts 2:42-46. Vs 45 teaches that all of the new believers that lacked something had their needs met. Who only was helped? Was there any assistance offered to non-believing Jews? Was there a program set up to help out all of the poor Jews, believers or not, or any needy, non-believing Gentiles in the region? No, this was strictly believers only helping out other believers! Yet, more and more new Jewish believers were coming to faith, Acts 2:47. Most of the new Jewish believers were what we would classify as the "working-class poor," in that most of them had to struggle to live and survive day by day. They weren't able to give anything, rather they needed help. More new believers with needs meant that more money had to be raised so once again, the affluent Jewish believers again provided more money to assist the growing number of new Jewish believers, Acts 4:32-35. Again, believers helping out other believers. Not once during these two times of the affluent giving money and assistance is there any mention of the Apostles giving sermons, any teaching or urging about giving money, or urging believers to "give more." The Apostles never taught about "giving your tithe" or "sacrificial giving!" (you won't find the phrase "sacrificial giving" in Scripture). This was a classic example of what Paul taught in 2Cor 9:7, "Each of you should give just as he has decided/purposed in his heart (mind), not reluctantly or under compulsion (being forced or pressured). All throughout Scripture, when it comes to voluntary giving of one's material wealth, there was never a standard or percentage set as to the amount one should give! 1Cor 16:2 "...let every one of you lay aside as God has prospered him..." Has God given the same amount of prosperity to all sheep? Of course not. Some can give more than others. Paul taught that each person gives what they can afford and what they are comfortable giving, not a set percentage, like ten percent of your money! Every time Paul spoke of collecting money from believers, it was only in reference to providing assistance to the needy saints in Jerusalem, nothing else. Whenever Paul spoke of collecting money, he never once spoke of sheep having to give a "tithe" of what they earned! In all of Paul's writing, he never once used the word "tithe." Acts 4:36-37 doesn't say Barnabas gave a "tithe" of the money he made from selling some land. In the stunt pulled by Ananias and Sapphira, Acts 5:1-10, Peter didn't talk about how they hadn't given a "tithe" of the proceeds. God didn't take their lives because they hadn't "tithed" on the proceeds of selling their land. What were the Gentile believers instructed to do by the council in Jerusalem, Acts 15:1-29? Vs 28-29, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That you abstain from meats offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from fornication..." Hmm, no mention of giving a "tithe" of their income or material wealth! If you understand how Scripture is laid out, it is easy to see that there is not one command or teaching in the New Testament that believers are required to "tithe" to the "church," or God, on their income, as it is crammed down the throat of people sitting in the pews! Just keep reading.
First, I am going to address the five passages used to teach that believers are required and commanded by Scripture to "tithe." The most popular verse used to teach that all believers are required to "tithe" is, of course, Gen 14:20! And the pastors love to include, "See, tithing predates the Mosaic Law!" If that is true, where do we see God commanding believers to tithe before Moses taught it in Lev 27:30? Show me the verse or verses! We don't see Adam, Seth, or Noah "tithing." Where is the verse that states that God commanded Abraham to "tithe?" This is just another classic example of pastors saying, "The bible says/teaches such and such," but they can't show you where the bible says or teaches "such and such." Tithing was a common practice among many of the pagan nations in existence during the days of Abraham. If you separate, isolate and read Gen 14:20 alone, it seems to say that Abraham gave a "tithe" of everything he owned, all of his material goods. But that is not what is going on. If we look at Heb 7:4, (A verse that is never pointed out when trying to con people about the requirement of believers having to tithe), "Now consider how great this man was, upon whom the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils." Spoils were any property, animals, food, etc., that a victor took after defeating an enemy in battle. Thus we see that rather than Abraham giving a "tithe" of all he owned, he only gave a tenth of the spoils he returned with. To bring clarity, Gen 14:20 should be translated, "...And Abraham gave Melchizedek a tenth of the spoil he returned with." The word "tithe" means a tenth. But what Abraham tithed is completely unrelated or connected to what Moses taught about what was to be tithed. Outside of Gen 14:20, there is no mention of Abraham tithing before or after this one-time event. So, you cannot use Abraham as an example of a pattern or routine of regularly giving a "tithe."
After this false example of tithing on one's personal wealth, the next favorite passage to twist is Gen 28:20-22. Jacob is Abraham's grandson. Isaac is Abraham's son, but we never see Isaac "tithing" or God commanding Issac to tithe. Jacob vowed to give the tenth if God would ensure that Jacob made it safely back to his father's house. In Gen 35:29, we see that Jacob did indeed make it back to his father's house and buried his father. End of part 1.
 
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Sabertooth

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  1. Wall of words; paragraphs would have helped.
  2. You are right. It is controversial (i.e. not a settled matter).
  3. God has honored Malachi 3:10-11 in our finances.
  4. You have offered no new arguments for your position. Consequently, I see no reason to counter them with the same old rebuttals, all over again...
  5. If you do not feel the need to tithe, then do not tithe unless/until you feel convicted otherwise.
  6. By the same token, do not interfere with we who are so convicted.
  7. As long as you have been Born Again, the Holy Spirit will sort out the rest...
 
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Follow your heart, mine says tithe.

Mark 4:24
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
 
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returntosender

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A pastor I watch seldom, speaks constantly on tithing and presented some proof via scriptures that were convincing proof. I wish I could remember them for you. I have never needed proof. It is a part of me. Robert Morse is his name if you care to look it up. He is dogged about it so his site is probably plastered with it. He over does as far as I am concerned so I usually turn it over. He's also a .com which is a concern.
 
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RickReads

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A pastor I watch seldom, speaks constantly on tithing and presented some proof via scriptures that were convincing proof. I wish I could remember them for you. I have never needed proof. It is a part of me. Robert Morse is his name if you care to look it up. He is dogged about it so his site is probably plastered with it. He over does as far as I am concerned so I usually turn it over. He's also a .com which is a concern.

Tithe abuse is an issue i.e. Ken Copeland is worth 800 million by some estimates. I think that is madness.

But, the tithe is the accepted standard of righteousness. But, like many other laws of Moses, we are not bound by it i.e. I don't believe God wants your kids to go hungry so you can pay a tithe.
 
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returntosender

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Tithe abuse is an issue i.e. Ken Copeland is worth 800 million by some estimates. I think that is madness.

But, the tithe is the accepted standard of righteousness. But, like many other laws of Moses, we are not bound by it i.e. I don't believe God wants your kids to go hungry so you can pay a tithe.
There is God's justice. Copeland was ousted from TBN but still on day star.
 
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I might as well wade in on this subject.
What I have witnessed and believe to be the most
damaging to the church (not individuals, or families),
with regards to financial stewardship is the tremendous
debt that many independent churches take on to purchase
property and build buildings. The use of federal tax-free
status 501(c)3 leaves the borrowing church with mandatory
board oversight and other avenues of government interference,
and if I were considering a potential for harlotry in the church,
I would suggest this as a point of further research.
As to receiving tax forms from a church, and using a tax shelter,
my only comment would be to consider the words of Christ.

Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
Matthew 6:
1
Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds
before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have
no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed,
do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites
do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they
may have glory from men.

Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
 
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BrotherJJ

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After wrestling with the Lord Gen 32:28. The Lord changes Jacobs name to Israel. Jacob's 12 sons become the 12 Tribes of Israel. Each son receives a portion of Land except Levi. Leiv's Tribe is chosen to be the priests.

The purpose of the tithe. Was because, unlike all the other tribes. The Levites did not reveice or own any property, therefore had no means of income. So God provided for the Levite tribe, the priestly’ tribe. With the tithes (Plural) of the other tribes. So the tithe is not biblical, unless it is given to the Levites.

Under Mosaic law it was Tithes (PLURAL) not tithe that was the requirement.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye "all the tithes" (PLURAL) into the storehouse,

Lev 27:
30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
(MY NOTE: Land owners & herdsmen paid the tithes & only from the land given to Israel)

31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes (<Again/PLURAL), he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
(MY NOTE: a 20% fee was added for bringing cash)

32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(MY NOTE: You marched your herd under a rod. If you had had 9 animals, you paid/gave none. If you had 19 you only paid/gave one. If you had 100 then 10 would have been required.)

Deut 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
(MY NOTE: Tithes were required on crop or herd """increases""". BTW nothing was EVER paid on any future increases/like a pay check. Also, fisherman paid nothing on their catch, tradesmen, cobblers, potters, the women who made the soldiers garments, the servants who worked in the fields for wages, were not required to pay tithe).

After the Temple was destroyed there was no where/reason to pay tithes.

Does our local Church & global ministries need our financial support? Of course, yes, ABSOLUTELY!

Acts 20:35 (C) Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
(NOTE: I see here a blessing promise from the Lord for freewill giving)

1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
(NOTE: Bring WEEKLY your best freewill gift)

2 Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
(NOTE: Give a little, receive a little, give a lot, receive a lot)

7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, ""or of necessity"": for God loveth a cheerful giver.
(NOTE: A tithe was given out of the laws necessity. A worthless gift from todays believer. A freewill gift from the heart is loved and rewarded by our Lord. Even a drink of water given in His name Matt 10:42)

When it comes to giving. New covenant Christians are taught to give generously, sacrificial & expectant of a blessing in return. And most certainly be CHEERFULL FREEWILL GIVER'S!

We should all prayerfully examine our giving patterns. Pray earnestly that the Holy Spirit would challenge us. To see whether they are in line with God's New Testament plan of being Generous, Sacrificial, Cheerful Giver's!
 
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BrotherJJ

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Abram's tithe:

Gen 14: Abram gives 10% (vs 20) of the best of the war spoils he'd taken. To the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the best 10% of the war spoils to Melchizedek. And the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (vs 24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!

Abram NEVER PAID 10% of his personal items (EVER!): No cattle, no oil or wine, no corn or wheat & NO MONEY! Only booty from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot.
 
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ElenaMaria_9

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I do have an issue with churches that say non tithers are under a curse if they don't tithe

Because of the cross we aren't under a curse

sin has consequences not curses. And I don't consider not tithing to be a sin. Not giving, maybe.
 
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RDKirk

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Abram's tithe:

Gen 14: Abram gives 10% (vs 20) of the best of the war spoils he'd taken. To the Priest & King of Salem, Melchizedek.

Abram gives the best 10% of the war spoils to Melchizedek. And the remaining 90% to Sodom & Gomorrah (vs 24). Abram kept NOTHING for himself!

Abram NEVER PAID 10% of his personal items (EVER!): No cattle, no oil or wine, no corn or wheat & NO MONEY! Only booty from the Kings he conquered while retrieving his kidnapped nephew Lot.

Yes. But there is more.

Abraham tithed according to the then-current law of the land, which was the Law of Hammurabi.

According to the Law of Hammurabi, a tithe on what was gained on the land was owed to the owner of a land.

Abraham had gained the war spoils in Melchizedek's realm, so he owed a tithe to Melchizedek from those war spoils, not from the wealth of his own property.

Edit: Abraham was essentially following the instruction of Paul in Romans 13: Pay what the local government demands that you pay.
 
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BrotherJJ

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Yes. But there is more.

Abraham tithed according to the then-current law of the land, which was the Law of Hammurabi.

According to the Law of Hammurabi, a tithe on what was gained on the land was owed to the owner of a land.

Abraham had gained the war spoils in Melchizedek's realm, so he owed a tithe to Melchizedek from those war spoils, not from the wealth of his own property.

Hello,
I'd be thankful for any scripture that cites Abram paid any tithe outside of the verses I cited in thread #13.

I have no doubt any land Abram passed through he paid whatever taxes were required.

Today's believer is taught to abide by the law of the land. Having said that no believer today is under Hammurabi, Mosaic tithe laws etc.

Final thought, every NT believer was under sins required death payment. Jesus took the judgement due. And we owe Him everything. Everything we have is a gift from Him. Peace, JJ
 
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RDKirk

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Hello,
I'd be thankful for any scripture that cites Abram paid any tithe outside of the verses I cited in thread #13.

I have no doubt any land Abram passed through he paid whatever taxes were required.

Today's believer is taught to abide by the law of the land. Having said that no believer today is under Hammurabi, Mosaic tithe laws etc.

Final thought, every NT believer was under sins required death payment. Jesus took the judgement due. And we owe Him everything. Everything we have is a gift from Him. Peace, JJ

I'm pointing out that Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek for the same reason we pay taxes--and as Paul instructed in Romans 13--because the law of the land requires it.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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  1. Wall of words; paragraphs would have helped.
  2. You are right. It is controversial (i.e. not a settled matter).
  3. God has honored Malachi 3:10-11 in our finances.
  4. You have offered no new arguments for your position. Consequently, I see no reason to counter them with the same old rebuttals, all over again...
  5. If you do not feel the need to tithe, then do not tithe unless/until you feel convicted otherwise.
  6. By the same token, do not interfere with we who are so convicted.
  7. As long as you have been Born Again, the Holy Spirit will sort out the rest...
Bingo end of discussion
 
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