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Being "saved"

Mar 21, 2013
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Rather than worry about one's soul being "saved" or not, would we not be better off worrying about loving our fellow human beings?

Is it possible that "salvation" in fact comes from compassion and selfless love for others?

I know I feel much closer to God when I am doing God's work - that is, being of service to humanity - than when I am worrying about my own spiritual state.
 

seashale76

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Rather than worry about one's soul being "saved" or not, would we not be better off worrying about loving our fellow human beings?

Is it possible that "salvation" in fact comes from compassion and selfless love for others?

I know I feel much closer to God when I am doing God's work - that is, being of service to humanity - than when I am worrying about my own spiritual state.

You mean we're supposed to have a faith that works? Yeah- we're not supposed to go around claiming to be saved anyway- it kind of takes away from the whole repentance factor- enduring to the end and whatnot. Orthodoxy flies in the face of Calvinism or whatever it is.
 
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football5680

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Salvation is a process so people shouldn't just go around preaching a single aspect without giving the full details of what it means to be a Christian. Helping people is a good thing to do but without faith it will be meaningless in the end. In Christianity we have free will so we can choose to accept or reject God and the answer we give here determines whether we can move forward and look at other aspects of our life.
 
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TG123

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Rather than worry about one's soul being "saved" or not, would we not be better off worrying about loving our fellow human beings?

Is it possible that "salvation" in fact comes from compassion and selfless love for others?

I know I feel much closer to God when I am doing God's work - that is, being of service to humanity - than when I am worrying about my own spiritual state.
Why not worry about both?

The Bible teaches that we are saved through faith, and faith is manifested in works. So having compassion and love for others is one of the things a person needs to have if he or she is a believer in Christ, and is therefore saved.

I worry about my spiritual state, and I try to follow God and am very sorry when I sin and fall short of His expectation of me. I also do my best to help others in need. I don't see a contradiction.
 
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ViaCrucis

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As a Christian I'm not entirely sure what "salvation of souls" means or looks like. I understand salvation as the salvation of the world.

The biblical language of salvation is rooted firmly in the notion of resurrection. It's not escapism or illumination; but resurrection and restoration.

It is the good Creator God taking the creation, bringing it out from sin, death, etc and renewing it, raising it, restoring it to be the world it is meant to be. This has taken place distinctively in Jesus, who being a man and dying, become the bearer of death in order to render it null and void in His resurrection, whereby in Him humanity itself is raised up, joined to God. What God is going to do for the whole world, He has done in Christ, and Christ is therefore the firstfruits of the resurrection, the beginning of new creation.

In Christian tradition the day Christ rose is called the "eighth day of creation". This is where the symbolism of the number 8 comes from in Christian art and architecture. Baptismal fonts are traditionally octagonal, and many churches have traditionally been built in this way too. A baptismal font being octagonal is symbolic of Baptism's identity with new birth, renewal, and redemption. As in Baptism the individual is taken and joined together with Christ in both His death and resurrection, to be alive by the Spirit, who in us is God's sacred pledge that even as Christ rose from the dead, He will likewise give life to our mortal bodies at the resurrection, at the restoration of all things.

It's why very often Christians will speak saying, "We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved."

We are pointing back to the objective act of Christ's death and resurrection, as well as our individual encounter with and participation in it through our Baptism. That is "We have been saved."

We are pointing to the present reality now, that God is presently saving us, as we hear the Gospel preached, as we confess our sins and hear the Word, "Your sins are forgiven", as we receive the Lord's Supper, Christ's own body and blood for us, to receive Him, and even now, right now, being saved and partaking in the objective reality of God's salvation of the world in Christ and at the end of the age.

We are pointing to the future resurrection of the body, to the Final Judgment, and the renewal of heaven and earth, of all creation, being brought out of death and into the life of God. In Christ. Age to Come, world everlasting.

All of these things are meant by "salvation". A common theme of the New Testament is "now and not yet", that the sacred realities of what God is doing for the world--the resurrection, the restoration of all things, etc--are real and true both at that future day and hour which nobody knows, as well as present now through the active promises of God, through faith. To live into the future reality now, by the abiding of the Spirit living in us, pointing us to what we now presently hope for, having been won for us and made real in Christ's death and resurrection.

It's why the kingdom of God can be said to both be present now and not yet. Present now by these same things, the Christ has come, and He has put death to death in the body, and called the poor and the downtrodden to victory and life in Him. So that even now God's kingdom is present, through the Gospel which declares these things true. And then also at the end of all things, when all will be brought to its fullness.

-CryptoLuthearn
 
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ContraMundum

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Saved means we are apparently saved from God's wrath, because he took out all of his hatred toward us and anger on his son instead. The classic bait and switch. This is why christians refer to the gospel as "great exchange" because Jesus suffered for 3 hours or so, we don't have to go to hell if we convert to christianity and keep the commands of God (the bible). But we're not technically free to do evil, as that would show us reprobates. Yes, even drunken reprobates and we do not want that. God would surely punish us again for that.

*Worst explanation and understanding of Luther's "great exchange" atonement idea I've ever heard. Come back when you have a better comprehension of this please.
 
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Mar 21, 2013
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Why not both with equal vigour?

Because I love and trust God to provide for me. A man cannot serve two masters. I cannot be focused both on my own self-centered thinking, and a world-embracing vision of service.

I will focus on serving God and let Him decide what to do with me. He is beyond any reproach.
 
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Mar 21, 2013
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Why not worry about both?


I worry about my spiritual state, and I try to follow God and am very sorry when I sin and fall short of His expectation of me. I also do my best to help others in need. I don't see a contradiction.

We do fall short and sin. But at some point we should be motivated to stop sinning because we are making ourselves less effective in service to God, instead of being motivated because we are worrying about our own selves.

I am deeply moved by Baha'u'llah's quote on this subject:

"O people of God! Do not busy yourselves in your own concerns; let your thoughts be fixed upon that which will rehabilitate the fortunes of mankind and sanctify the hearts and souls of men."
 
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ContraMundum

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Because I love and trust God to provide for me. A man cannot serve two masters. I cannot be focused both on my own self-centered thinking, and a world-embracing vision of service.

Sure you can. They are both part of the same thing. By serving others, you are serving God. By serving God, you grow spiritually and thus help your own soul. Not that complicated.

I will focus on serving God and let Him decide what to do with me. He is beyond any reproach.

...then you may never know when or even if you have done enough.
 
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ContraMundum

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We do fall short and sin. But at some point we should be motivated to stop sinning because we are making ourselves less effective in service to God, instead of being motivated because we are worrying about our own selves.

Do you believe that the cessation of sin atones for past sins and the damage they have done?
 
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Sure you can. They are both part of the same thing. By serving others, you are serving God. By serving God, you grow spiritually and thus help your own soul. Not that complicated.

I fully agree with this. But of course the goal must eventually become selfless service, not self-service.


...then you may never know when or even if you have done enough.

You know you've done enough when that exact question ceases to be of any importance to you, and you are motivated only in the service to what is good, right and true.
 
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ContraMundum

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I fully agree with this. But of course the goal must eventually become selfless service, not self-service.

Exactly.

You know you've done enough when that exact question ceases to be of any importance to you, and you are motivated only in the service to what is good, right and true.

So in your religious beliefs there is no justice to be served for past sins and if your heart doesn't condemn you, you have been freed of their guilt?

What if the scriptures are right- "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jer 17:9
 
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Do you believe that the cessation of sin atones for past sins and the damage they have done?

God turns everything into beauty. God is the philosopher's stone - He turns abasement into glory through the power of His transformative love.

He turned my brother's suicide into a desire and action to help others avoid the pain of that kind of tragedy.

So yes, God redeems everything, our sinfulness, our mistakes, our failures, and He redeems them and creates the most beautiful story ever imagined even out of our worst actions. I have seen His redemption in my own life and have an abiding faith in His redemption of all creation.
 
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So in your religious beliefs there is no justice to be served for past sins and if your heart doesn't condemn you, you have been freed of their guilt?

Justice is consequences.

And there are always consequences for sin. We damage our own spiritual capacity, we create weakness and frailty in our lives, and worst of all we hurt others, either through our failure to live up to the service we are called to do, or directly by harming others through selfishness.

What if the scriptures are right- "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jer 17:9

We do often deceive ourselves most of all - when we act selfishly. We so often come up with reasons, justifications and excuses for it. There is no doubt when we follow our own desires instead of the will of God, we become deceitful and desperately wicked. If we turn away from ourselves and follow God, He makes us a new creation instead.
 
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dlamberth

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Rather than worry about one's soul being "saved" or not, would we not be better off worrying about loving our fellow human beings?

Is it possible that "salvation" in fact comes from compassion and selfless love for others?

I know I feel much closer to God when I am doing God's work - that is, being of service to humanity - than when I am worrying about my own spiritual state.
What I hear you suggesting is that making God a reality in ones life is actually what it's all about. And that Love, Compassion and Service to those in need is how that is done. I couldn't agree more!!!


.
 
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I would say being saved is finally realizing the unity of all. The self dies away and the true Self is sought out.

But they for whom I am the supreme goal, who do all work renouncing self for me and meditate on me with single-hearted devotion, these I will swiftly rescue from the fragment’s cycle of birth and death, for their consciousness has entered into me. (12:6–7)
 
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ContraMundum

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Justice is consequences.

And there are always consequences for sin. We damage our own spiritual capacity, we create weakness and frailty in our lives, and worst of all we hurt others, either through our failure to live up to the service we are called to do, or directly by harming others through selfishness.

Consequences are only part of it from where I stand. There must be justice, as God is just. What consequences did Hitler suffer? He lived well and without justice or consequences until he killed himself. Is there no justice for his victims?

We do often deceive ourselves most of all - when we act selfishly. We so often come up with reasons, justifications and excuses for it. There is no doubt when we follow our own desires instead of the will of God, we become deceitful and desperately wicked. If we turn away from ourselves and follow God, He makes us a new creation instead.


...but how could you know that for sure? It seems to me that the "new creation" can also be an emotion bourne of a deceived heart. Think about the leaders cults as a crass example. They think they're righteous, and even feel like God is blessing them- but they're not and He isn't. There's a litany of self-deceived cultists one could reel off.

Seems to me like you and I are not too far apart except for the issue of God's justice- which is a bedrock of my understanding of the Bible.
 
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