Being in hell and character building

[Overkommer]

Let`s say you`re in hell and suffering and you do this over a certain period of time, wouldn`t the pain be less as you adapt and you also, start to feel better because you build character from the suffering itself, do the devil find new ways constantly to make you suffer as you adapt to the pain, and eventually, wouldn`t you have suffered so much you surpass the devil itself in matureness and intelligence, surely you must think alot when you always suffer also, and when you finally regret doing bad things and you go to heaven instead, wouldn`t you kinda look strange for the others in there because of all the suffering you did?

 

[Cormack]

Many people come to faith in an earthly prison, since it’s a time for contemplation and considering where our lives have gone wrong (and more importantly why.) So I think you’ve got an interest point, @Overkommer.

How often do Christian’s console each other during hardship by insisting that tough times build character? Everyday. So when we picture hardship the likes of which only hell can produce, it seems odd when traditionalists argue that the lost sinner only gets worse the longer they’re there.

At least in the earthly sense, free time is one of the rare things that prisoners have in excess, and they use that time to think on grand truths, even God. I hope that hell is similar in this regard. Jesus is still God and He still saves, even from hell.

 

[RileyG]

Depends how you define hell. From your description, you make hell sound like a physical place rather than separation from God. And no, change is not possible in hell because the damned made their final decision once and for all. They CHOSE to reject God- WHO is goodness and life itself.

 

[Cormack]

How do you define hell, @RileyG? I notice lots of hazy and non committal opinions on hell, outside of the old fashioned literal fire/literal place portrait that people sometimes paint.

 

[RileyG]

How do you define hell, @RileyG? I notice lots of hazy and non committal opinions on hell, outside of the old fashioned literal fire/literal place portrait that people sometimes paint.

No, NOT literal fire and brimstone. No. No. No. Absolutely NOT.

Hell is separation from God.

I do not elaborate beyond that. It's a mystery just like heaven is a mystery.

 

[Cormack]

Hell is separation from God.

I do not elaborate beyond that. It's a mystery just like heaven is a mystery.

I wouldn’t want you to if you believe that’s inappropriate. Still, let me run this section of the Bible by you, it’s about people who follow the beast and ideas like that.

They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
​

So in what sense are people separated from God in the traditionalists reading of this scripture? Maybe only separated from the love and grace of God? Because they seem to be with him here.

This kind of interlocks with our other messages with @Hmm, about Gods pursuit of man not ending so long as His love knows no ending.

 

[RileyG]

I wouldn’t want you to if you believe that’s inappropriate. Still, let me run this section of the Bible by you, it’s about people who follow the beast and ideas like that.

They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
​

So in what sense are people separated from God in the traditionalists reading of this scripture? Maybe only separated from the love and grace of God? Because they seem to be with him here.

This kind of interlocks with our other messages with @Hmm, about Gods pursuit of man not ending so long as His love knows no ending.

Fascinating perspective! Thanks for the biblical quote.

Truth be told, I do not know. I am no scholar, so I do not have any answer.

I do know, that Revelation is highly symbolic. Jesus is the Lamb of God, but he's not literally a lamb etc. It's not real sulfur etc

 

[Blade]

Let`s say you`re in hell and suffering and you do this over a certain period of time, wouldn`t the pain be less as you adapt and you also, start to feel better because you build character from the suffering itself, do the devil find new ways constantly to make you suffer as you adapt to the pain, and eventually, wouldn`t you have suffered so much you surpass the devil itself in matureness and intelligence, surely you must think alot when you always suffer also, and when you finally regret doing bad things and you go to heaven instead, wouldn`t you kinda look strange for the others in there because of all the suffering you did?

Well your looking at this as an atheist with a no offense world view. See according to the word hell was made for Satan not man. Its man that says Satan and demons are tormenting man lol. Nope he will be in it. See when he was kicked out of heaven everything that is GOD..all the peace joy things like that Satan does not experience any more. Same in hell. So all the good things of God the fruits of the spirit.. again every thing that is God will not be there. There is no way out...no more second chances. No one to talk to.

Yet most in this world are blind as Christ said if you were blind you would have no sin. See Satan knows God Christ are real duh he was there in all Gods glory. He made the choice to leave all that and do what he has been doing. Anyone in hell will know God was real that Christ was real. They never had a doubt and know saying no to Him they will not be with Him forever. Yet in Rev there will be people from every tribe and nation that NO MAN can count! Again most are blind.. if blind they would have no sin One you see and know that you know Jesus Christ is the only way..when He comes to your heart and you say no. You/we not Him made that choice.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Let`s say you`re in hell and suffering and you do this over a certain period of time, wouldn`t the pain be less as you adapt and you also, start to feel better because you build character from the suffering itself, do the devil find new ways constantly to make you suffer as you adapt to the pain, and eventually, wouldn`t you have suffered so much you surpass the devil itself in matureness and intelligence, surely you must think alot when you always suffer also, and when you finally regret doing bad things and you go to heaven instead, wouldn`t you kinda look strange for the others in there because of all the suffering you did?

I'm with @RileyG , separation would be hell.
Blessings

 

[BobRyan]

Let`s say you`re in hell and suffering and you do this over a certain period of time, wouldn`t the pain be less as you adapt and you also, start to feel better because you build character from the suffering itself, do the devil find new ways constantly to make you suffer as you adapt to the pain, and eventually, wouldn`t you have suffered so much you surpass the devil itself in matureness and intelligence, surely you must think alot when you always suffer also, and when you finally regret doing bad things and you go to heaven instead, wouldn`t you kinda look strange for the others in there because of all the suffering you did?

1. Matt 25 does not say that hell is the place where the devil is put in charge of humans and gets to torment them to his full delight. Rather it is said that hell is specifically designed to torment the devil and his angels. It is their punishment - not their demon-heaven, according to the Bible.

2. Hell is for the "destruction of both body and soul" according to Matt 10:28 not for character building.

3. Luke 12 says some people suffer many lashes in hell - and others few. Each one suffers according to his deeds and to what he knew to be right.

4. Hell is a place of torment "in fire and brimstone" according to Revelation 14 -- it is the "lake of fire" event of Rev 20. So it happens at the end of the 1000 years mentioned in Rev 20.

5. Fire comes from inside the devil - and consumes him into dust according to Ezek 28

15 You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, you covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was haughty because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I threw you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 By the multitude of your wrongdoings,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

 

[TedT]

...you make hell sound like a physical place rather than separation from God.

Calling it the outer darkness sounds like a physical place.

 

[timf]

The concept of hell is an interesting one. It is made confusing because of so much that is not true like the cartoon of a devilish imp prodding one with a pitchfork.

The bible describes Sheol (Hebrew) and Hades (Greek) as the place where people who are not Christian go when they die. These can experience torment (the Greek word is used for a touchstone as well as the torture of slaves in Greek legal proceedings to insure truthful testimony).

Christians upon death go to be with the Lord. The righteous dead of Israel are to be raised in the first resurrection. Everyone else is raised at the last judgment and judged according to their works. We are not told if there is any punishment (or reward) as a result of the final judgment, but we are told that at that time the dead are placed into the lake of fire (called the second death).

The idea of eternal punishment does not have to mean that someone is made to suffer eternally, but that their perishing is not recoverable.

Many translations use the word "eternal" for the Greek word aion. The word simply meant "age". Like the English word "tall", it can have various meanings (a man can be tall as well as a mountain).

We do know that people in Hades have perception and memory. It may be that those who resist the truth find discomfort to motivate them to finally surrender. This may also be the process that results in every knee bending and every tongue confessing that Jesus is Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

Calling it the outer darkness sounds like a physical place.

Rev 20 points out that it is indeed a physical place -- it is the "lake of fire" it is 'on earth'.

But other references in the Bible merely mean "the grave". Which is also a "physical place"

 

[BobRyan]

No, NOT literal fire and brimstone. No. No. No. Absolutely NOT. .

On the contrary

Rev 14:
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Rev 20:
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

 

[BravoM]

Some people think Hell is simply "eternal separation from God and nothing else". -

 

[BobRyan]

Some people think Hell is simply "eternal separation from God and nothing else". -

True some do think that. As with many topics "opinions may vary" - everyone has free will.

But in the Bible Rev 14 says there is real torment and suffering there - in "fire and brimstone".