Being Greek Orthodox in a sometimes aggressive American/Protestant culture

heart of peace said:

The worst part about it all is that he thinks I worship Mary.

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I'm a veteran Christian too and I've been studying the Holy Bible my whole life as well.

First of all I can say, is that he is wrong about you because the only denomination that worships Mary and the Saints are the Catholics, and you are not Catholic, you are Orthodox. There are like, hundreds of other denominations out there that do not worship Mary and the Saints, thankfully (after all, God commands that God alone be worshiped and even the angels reject worship). The Catholics and the Orthodox are two completely different denominations each with their own sets of beliefs. They are not the same thing.

So you see, he doesn't know everything about Christianity (or even you for that matter) despite his sinful bragging (God makes it clear in the Bible that we are not to boast or get glory for ourselves).

You go and tell him that.

Angels rejecting worship: Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Boasting prohibited: Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Dorothea said:

Early on when I was first starting to attend church down in Louisiana. I visited one of my co-worker and friend's home one night, and her grandmother was there. Strong Southern Baptist lady. She asked me what my religion was, and I told her I was Greek Orthodox. She said she was Baptist and that her church goes all the way back to John the Baptist himself. I said "I see." and did this ->

lol

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Well I am a Baptist too but I am not going to boast about it as if it is the greatest thing in the world...sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssshhhhhhhhh........

Yeah, here's the thing about us Protestants; we can be incredibly dogmatic. But only because we've had no competition or have had to co-exist with some other denomination.

Sometimes we can be kind of silly, chanting "faith alone in Christ alone!" and acting as if Christianity began in the South with good ol' simple folks who knew EXACTLY what Jesus meant.

But the truth is a lot of Christians are just ignorant of history. I myself was raised Protestant, but I would certainly try not to be as arrogant as my brethren about stuff. Although I do often wonder, if the "Apocrypha" was fine the way it was then why did God allow Martin Luther to show up and reduce the Bible? Had the Catholic church really gotten too distant from what Christianity was meant to be or was Luther just some upstart? Is one denomination "in the wrong", and if so what needs to be "changed"? Can one denomination be "more true" than the others? How "heretical" would you need to be in order to "not count" as a Christian?

Thankfully a personal experience with Christ has reassured me that, well, faith in Jesus Christ and an acknowledgement of your sins is all you really need. From there you can do whatever is needed or whatever it is that you feel like you need to do, provided that it's not sinful. Christians inevitably can't all be the same, and the diversity within the Church--I mean EVERY legit Christian--is a good thing

Personally, things like the Council of Chalcedon were just divisive and discriminatory, and the church is supposed to be a unified body in Christ. We can't fight over stupid things

While I appreciate Martin Luther's valiant efforts to fix where the Catholic Church was becoming detached from its people and from God, and his firm convictions, he was an angry man. Did you know that it is believed that he once ordered a child who was (most likely) autistic to be smothered to death because he thought he was possessed by demons? As a person with Asperger's Syndrome that kind of bothers me

So yeah, Protestants have their issues. We wonder why all those Christians were so easily "duped into believing that they had to worship Mary/kiss icons", but you forget that the Bible couldn't just be mass-produced back then and read by oneself. As a (sort-of) Protestant the privilege of being allowed to have your own Bible is important to me, but let's face it, a pastor/priest/preacher knows more than you, the average layperson, know about it. Although to be fair Catholics can be arrogant and dogmatic, too, and all of those patriarchs in Russia and Istanbul keep going on and on about how THEY are the "true church" and everyone else has "just fallen away". I'm starting to think that the "true church" comes from believers of all stripes who understand what it means to be a Christian.

I think that other ex-Orthodox-turned-evangelical guy was trying to point out (poorly) that if you've been raised Catholic or Orthodox, then you run the risk of having your faith being just a tradition with a bunch of rituals. Furthermore, a bunch of rituals can be very Pharisee-esque, as in you might consider a bunch of traditions and cultural customs more important than your faith. But trust me, you can find that in Protestantism, too.

So yeah, nothing wrong with being Orthodox or Catholic or whatever. Although personally I don't like Constantine since he institutionalized the church and really wasn't a Christian at all. He just kind of said he was a Christian, sponsored some debates and took sides for political power. And so many other emperors after him were like that, too, like with Theodosius and his pointless persecution of pagans. We Christians can't just respond to centuries of persecution with revenge, it's just not right

Personally, though, I'm thinking about looking around at denominations in the future and joining one. I was only considering Protestant ones, though, since there aren't really any Orthodox churches where I live and I don't think I could be a Catholic. I will say, though, that the monastic life appeals to me TREMENDOUSLY as an introvert, and Protestant churches are ANNOYINGLY extroverted, what with all their happiness and smiles and singing. I don't know much about Catholic and Orthodox liturgies, but I've heard that Orthodoxy favors introversion. I'd probably fit right in

When I was in college, one of the stalwarts in InterVarsity, an evangelical Protestant group, was Greek Orthodox. He would make contributions from St. John Chrysostom and other Fathers. One of the members of the group had converted from Orthodoxy to Protestantism. She said she was trying to convert her mother. Eventually her mother asked her what she now believed. In reply to her description, her mother said, "Honey, I believe all those things, too." Diana was confused because she'd been told that Catholics and Orthodox aren't true Christians. We all thought maybe that's not true after all.

Eventually when I got to grad school and met some Orthodox students (and some Catholics) I realized how parochial my protestant assumptions had been.

Exactly. All of us Christians probably have more in common with each other than we have differences. Our faith is supposed to unite us.

mfloor said:

I think arguing with any denomination can quickly become useless for anyone. Having been Greek Orthodox and now becoming an Evangelical Christian, I have became a new person. This conversion was a shock to many Greek Orthodox believers because they are very stuck in tradition and how large and wide their beliefs expand. I owe my salvation to the early days of the Greek Orthodox Church, so I think they should be recognized here! The Baptist churches are so different! Anytime you turn worshiping of Christ into a Religion, you get into trouble. There are countless times when denominations of every kind even the "Orthodox Church" persecuted and attacked other beliefs. In the early times of the church, the Orthodox Church attacked the Gnostics for their beliefs that didn't include a hierarchy. As beautiful a church as the Greek Orthodox Church is, they miss the whole idea of salvation when it comes to the lost. My experience with my old Greek Orthodox Church is that they are not concerned (at least I never witnessed) with outsiders. They are warm to those who are curious and want to see the church. This is great, but what about the souls who have never heard the gospel? If it weren’t for Evangelists, there would be many lost souls. There is no growth as far as saving the lost and dyeing world out there. I couldn't stand around for this and had to make a change. My belief is that it does "no one" any good if they intellectually understand all that there is to know about the original foundation of the church, if they haven't truly repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. In fact, I went to church for many years and never truly repented of sins. I lived a sinful lifestyle and according to my standards, I was a good person. God’s standards are utter perfection! I created a graven image of God…by creating a God that suited my lifestyle. I thought drunkenness was okay. I thought lustful feelings were fine. Is this my fault or was I falsely taught? Of course, many in the Greek Church will say of course this isn’t okay, however, there is no teaching occurring in church that allows for true repentance. It’s one thing to know it’s bad and another thing to see ourselves as guilty criminals in the eyes of God and we deserve a death sentence according to his standards. This is how Christ and the Cross play a crucial role in Christianity. It seems as though the priests have all the answers and the parishioners come to church and rely on the priests for all the answers. This is a crippling church philosophy! Where is the church growing? To me, this is what was giving me false assurance of salvation. Yes, we are saved by grace but a decision must be made to be reborn. When I am around Greek Orthodox believers I don't feel the same as when I'm around "Christians". The only people that seem to live their life like true Christians are the Priests! Yes, we need fellowship with other Christians and we must pray for one another but to rely on a priest only for your salvation is scary. Christians must constantly check their hearts and validate if they are walking in the faith. This is a spiritual warfare going on right now within us! When we die, we are judged and we will not have a group to support us and back us up. We must live as though each one of us is being judged – because we will be. You must have a personal relationship with Christ and you must share your faith as a true Christian should. This is what I believe is the problem in the Orthodox faith.

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Yours is an post, but just want to say that if you truly were a Greek orthodox at one time - I do not believe that you were - you would have remained one had you put the same effort into learning about Orthodoxy as you do in dismissing it. Yu can certainly have a personal relathionship with God in Orthodoxy. Silly.
I see an obvious error when you said Orthodoxy rejected Gnosticism due to its lack of a hierarchy. That is ridiculous on its surface, but to illuminate you, Orthodoxy rejected Gnosticism because it is false. Humanity does not need to know "secret things" via Gnosticism to find God.

A very interesting thread!
I have liked to read abou it!

pico said:

Επιτρέπεται να απαντήσω εδὠ αν άθεος είμαι?

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Whatever may have happened here?