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Being "drunk in the spirit"?

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1usul1

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I think that both drunk in the Spirit and Slain in the spirit are descriptive terms for an encounter with God, I really disagree of both of your assessments of scripture E2. There would of been cause for the labeling of drunkenness, and Paul does make some sort of association to being filled with the Spirit with drinking wine.....

Furthermore when people encounter the living God something has got to give. look at Pentecost, these guys couldn't handle it and busted out with Tongues of fire......

I really disagree with seeking drunkenness of the Spirit or seeking to be slain by the Spirit, however seeking Do should be encouraged.
 
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Elijah2

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I think that both drunk in the Spirit and Slain in the spirit are descriptive terms for an encounter with God, I really disagree of both of your assessments of scripture E2. There would of been cause for the labeling of drunkenness, and Paul does make some sort of association to being filled with the Spirit with drinking wine.....

Furthermore when people encounter the living God something has got to give. look at Pentecost, these guys couldn't handle it and busted out with Tongues of fire......

I really disagree with seeking drunkenness of the Spirit or seeking to be slain by the Spirit, however seeking Do should be encouraged.

Thanks mate for your wisdom, I guess when you have been around the places that I've been and as you get older, you'll probably become wiser, then you might become more aware of those "earthly and heavenly things".

My dear brother I don't assess things just on scripture, I assess on discernment and personal experiences, and I can assure you I have much of both.

Get rid of the term being drunk in the spirit and slain in the spirit from your terminology, and then seek our Lord Jesus Christ, you'll never know you might see the truth.

Blessings.:)
 
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STRICTLY SCRIPTURE

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[SIZE=+1]Drunk In The Spirit? [/SIZE]Drunk In The Spirit?

Recently, I watched a videotape containing footage from churches participating in the "Toronto Blessing". I was sickened and disturbed by the occultic and animal-like manifestations which I witnessed. I would like to examine a behavior which I witnessed over and over on this video, in videos from the Brownsville Assembly of God and which I have also seen from time to time in Spirit-filled services in which I have participated. This behavior is commonly labeled 'being drunk in the Spirit'. Those in this state exhibit certain signs; staggering, falling down, slurred speech, impaired mental functioning, and bizarre behavior. People leaving 'renewal' meetings have been reportedly pulled over by police for drunk driving.(1)
Pastor Randy Clark shares that it was hard for him to enter into this experience because of his non-drinking background, and then says "…but my worship leader's a recovering alcoholic. Man, he can get right in there."(2) So being a recovering alcoholic enables you to enter more deeply into the power of the Holy Spirit? Hmmm…. Let us begin our examination by looking for examples of Scriptural precedent.
Acts chapter 2, of course, is the logical starting place. After all, the Spirit-empowered believers there were accused of being drunk. Read chapter 2, and then let us consider these points:
* No drunken behavior mentioned--only the works of God being praised in the varied languages of the crowd.
* Only a small minority--the mockers--accused them of being drunk. It was not a legitimate charge, and Peter flatly denies it.
* The prediction of Joel contains no reference to drunken behavior.
* Peter, under the power of the Spirit is not at a loss for words. He preaches a clear and powerful call to repentance.
* The crowd was orderly enough that thousands could hear Peter without the benefit of a PA system.
Our next stop is Ephesians 5:18, which tells us not to be drunk with wine, which leads to ruin, but to be filled with the Spirit. Again, let us observe:
* This is not comparing the effects of an alcoholic stupor with being drunk in the Spirit. It is a contrast of opposites! Drunkenness removes self-control. The Holy Spirit produces the fruit of self-control (Galatians 5:23).
* Verse 19 lists the results of being filled with the Spirit; praising lips, a praising heart, and a thankful attitude.
What an insult to a Holy God, to attribute drunken behavior to His Holy Spirit! While the Bible never refers to being 'drunk in the Spirit', it contains numerous condemnations of drunkenness, and it does refer to spiritual drunkenness as a judgment from God. Consider the following passages:
I have trodden down the peoples in My anger, made them drunk in My fury… Isaiah 63:6 NKJ
"…Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land…with drunkenness! "And I will dash them one against another…(I) will destroy them" Jeremiah 13:13-14 NKJV
"And they will drink and stagger and go mad because of the sword I will send among them."
Jeremiah 25:16 NKJV
'Therefore you shall say to them, "Thus says… the God of Israel: "Drink, be drunk, and vomit! Fall and rise no more…"' Jeremiah 25:27 NKJV
I continued my search by computer, through the writings of the Church Fathers. Again, much condemnation of drunkenness, but no examples of being 'drunk in the Spirit'. Which leads to the $1,000,000 question -- If no precedent is found in Scripture (indeed if the opposite is found), and if no examples are found in the writings of the Early Church, then what in the world are we permitting and perpetuating? If we open the door to the Flesh, or demonic deception, then all sorts of things will come through. We ignore Scripture at our own peril. We cannot afford to follow the traditions of men, and ignore God. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 tells how God will send a strong delusion upon those who do not believe the truth, so we cannot afford to let things slide.
One of the most serious things about this experience of being 'drunk in the Spirit', I believe, is that it makes a mockery of our holy God. It reduces Him to the level of Bacchus , the Greek and Roman god of wine and merrymaking. He is the divine bartender, handing out drinks, encouraging riotous behavior, playing to the laughing, staggering crowds. The ideal 'worship' service resembles a frat party beer bust. What a novel idea; come to Christ, not for forgiveness and cleansing, but for a buzz. Get your heavenly high! Fall down, not in holy fear and adoration, but in a spiritual intoxication. God must be deeply grieved at how easily we drag His name through the mud. How quickly we forsake the truth and chase after illusory experiences. If we can engage in carnival sideshow behavior in the name of worship, do we really understand our God at all?
"This is the pastor of a church? Lord, don't tickle him, just bless him. Drunk on the new wine. Drunk. (8 times)… That's one pastor between the pews. Hallelujah. Have another drink, here sister…. What about you? Are you on vacation or something? Have a double dose… Have another round sister cocktailer, in the good sense of the word. Ha ha… Filled. Filled… More. More… Drunk, I said drunk. I said drunk. I said drunk…"
Evangelist Rodney Howard-Browne transcribed from The Coming Revival videotape.
New Winos Drinking Song Number One
Kathryn Riss
If you feel too serious and kind of blue
I've got a suggestion, just the thing for you!
It's a little unconventional, but so much more fun,
That you won't even mind when people think you're dumb!
Just come to the party God is throwing right now,
We can all lighten up and show the pagans how
Christians have more fun and keep everyone guessing,
Since the Holy Ghost sent us the Toronto Blessing!
I used to think life was serious stuff
I wouldn't dare cry, and I acted kind of tough
Until God's Spirit put laughter in my soul,
Now the Holy Ghost's got me and I'm out of control!
Now I'm just a party animal grazing at God's trough,
I'm a Jesus Junkie, and I can't get enough!
I'm an alcoholic for that great New Wine,
'Cause the Holy Ghost is pouring, and I'm drinking all the time!
I just laugh like an idiot and bark like a dog,
If I don't sober up, I'll likely hop like a frog!
I'll crow like a rooster at the break of day,
'Cause the Holy Ghost is moving, and I can't stay away!
I'll roar like a lioness who's on the prowl,
I'll laugh and shake, maybe hoot like an owl!
Since God's holy river started bubbling in me,
It spills outside, and now it's setting me free!
So, I'll crunch and I'll dip and I'll dance round and round,
The pew was fine, but it's more fun on the ground!
So I'll jump like a pogo stick, then fall to the floor,
'Cause the Holy Ghost is moving, and I just want MORE!
(Kathryn is the wife of Toronto revival historian Richard Riss)
The Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship recently held their "Have Another Drink" conference. I include some of their own description of the conference so that you can get a feel for the ungodly and profane nature of their 'worship':
Have Another Drink -
Never a Sober Moment
"If anyone had any concern that the Have Another Drink conference this week would get off to a slow start, those fears were quickly squelched. Not five minutes into the week-long festivities, you could see the main speakers stumbling toward the front of the auditorium in a drunken stupor! Darrel Stott, John Scotland, Peter Jackson and Georgian Banov spent most of the morning session in a pile at the foot of the front row. About 1,500 worshippers flooded into the main sanctuary for the 10:30 a.m. meeting. As TACF celebrated its 43rd month of renewal, the festivities got off to a resounding start. Worship leader Jeremy Sinnott kicked off the morning with several of the renewal favorites as well as some new 'drinking songs' like Intoxicated by Chris Roe - a fitting theme for the conference. It was clear that worship, as usual, was going to be a highlight of the conference.
Ian Ross led the meeting in his typical fashion as he plodded along in a daze, trying to put together his thoughts enough to get his welcoming message across. "John asked that we give thought to uh…..something….." was about all the thought he could muster. "I'm so drunk, Janice (his wife) and I got the wrong teeth in this morning!" Trying to collect his thoughts wasn't working too well as Banov, Scotland and Stott were praying for him from their more-or-less prostrate position on the floor in front of him. It was clear from the first session that this was not going to be an average conference at TACF.
Before Darrel Stott came up to speak, John Scotland, from Liverpool, England, was introduced. When asked what his thoughts were on what he expected of the week, he immediately grabbed the microphone and yelled "OOOOOOHHHH" a few times before wobbling off to the side for prayer. We're still checking, but we think he may have actually said something in the five minutes he spent on the stage, but we're not too sure yet!
Darrel Stott, from Seattle, Washington, was an Assemblies of God pastor who innocently took a trip, paid for by his father, to Toronto in early '95 and has never been the same. The intriguing part about Darrel was that although he was in a drunken daze, babbling aimlessly and sounding a lot like George of the Jungle in his sleep, between all of this, he would preach like a Southern Baptist Minister. He would come out with fiery charges to the audience, reminding them of the calling and the power that God is ready to anoint them with, but then returning to his dizzy state of babbling while holding on to the glass podium for dear life. A truly fascinating sight to watch, but the display also reminded us that although what God is doing on the outside may look funny, what He is doing on the inside is quite powerful. He also made a serious comment to the general audience: "If you're pretending to be drunk, knock it off," a good point to make to start the conference off right and a reminder to those who may have come to take advantage of a rather - shall we say - 'loose' week."
http://www.tacf.org/confs/anotherdrink1.html (underlining added for emphasis)
Many more examples could be given of the attitude which prevails in these meetings. There appears to be no fear of God. After all, who fears a jolly bartender? Supposedly the presence of God is at these meetings in a mighty way. Strangely lacking however, is the biblical response to the awesome presence of almighty God. Consider these things before the Lord. Search the Scriptures, and if you find what I'm saying to be true, then take action. Don't place yourself under the influence of those who promote such practices. Rebuke this behavior if you see it occurring. Speak out against this desecration of the character and name of God. Love the truth and honor Christ. Maranatha.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article may be copied for free distribution only. John Green azgreens@jhotmail.com
1. Vineyard newsletter March 1994 Vol. 1
2. Randy Clark, Let The Fire Fall Conference, Anaheim Vineyard, July 1994
Good point about Peter being able to speak after an infilling.He was not laying in the floor like an idiot.

It concurs with this passage.Notice that after being filled,we are to speak psalms to each other.How could we do that if we were slurring?

Ephesians 5:15-19 ESV

15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,
 
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gratefulgrace

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I too hate the term Drunk in the Spirit. I lived with a drunk for 18 years (my father) and I will never use that term to describe any encounter i have with my heavenly Father. Enraptured Filled to overflowing Aglow in the Spirit are all scriptural terms to describe the overwhelming sense of God's presence in our lives. I believe It is wrong to use the term that was used "in derision" of the disciples on the day of pentecost to describe heavenly encounters. However there are similarities between being drunk by giving yourself over to alcoholic spirit so that you are controlled by someone other than yourself (and here I would put the name of Satan or the devil evil at least) and Submitting to and being filled with the Spirit of God contolled by that Holy spirit to do the will of God. The behaviour of the disciples was they were speaking in tongues which must have seemed like babbling to the crowd hence the conviction that they must be drunk. Peter very clearly and coherently rebuked them and set them straight as to what was happening.

All I can say is if it seems off to you, stay clear of it> If it is of God you will feel His peace about it and have his assurance through His revealed Word. It is easy to equate fleshly manifestations with spiritual encounters and and it is so easy for satan to duplicate the real thing with a phony substitute. There are scriptural examples of being slain in the spirit where the priest could not stand to minister the skekinah glory of God was so stong on them. However they usually fell face down.

I actually feel the other manifestations going around, calling out yelling and in some cases making weird sounds are all fleshly and I find them very disturbing I feel a real check in my spirit especially when they occur during the preaching of the word. In one church where this happened I kept excpecting the speaker to do as Paul did in Philippi (Acts 16)and deliver those so afflicted. But sadly no it is seen as a mark of sprituality these days. gg
 
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1usul1

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When assessing Spiritual activity we have to look at a number of things. Firstly Scripture is the foremost authority on the subject.

But in the case of Acts chapter 2 and Paul statement about being filled with the Spirit we are not truly left a clear statement about what is right and what is wrong, there is ambiguity in these.
We shouldn't judge by appearance either. Should we? the Bible says there was nothing to attract us to Jesus, Isaiah 53.

I think a solid method of judgment is checking out the fruit.

When I have been whats called drunk in the Spirit (not a term I used to describe it) I have never been lead into sexually immorality, impurity, debauchery or idolatry or witchcraft or hatred jealousy or dissentsons... etc Gal 5.

However after I have been 'drunk' in the Spirit I have been lead into love, joy, peace, patients, faithfulness, gentleness and self control Gal5 Paul states against this there is no law.

Now, I am not making a blanket statement for 'drunkness' in the Spirit- I don't think we should actively seek these manifestations either, we should seek Jesus, but i do not think it is wrong to manifest the Holy Spirit and I don't think it is the activity of the devil either or dark Spirits though in some instances it very well could be, well it can't of been in my experiences- scripturaly impossible.
 
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Tobias

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Good point about Peter being able to speak after an infilling.He was not laying in the floor like an idiot.

It concurs with this passage.Notice that after being filled,we are to speak psalms to each other.How could we do that if we were slurring?

Ephesians 5:15-19 ESV

15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,


I don't have much experience with physical drunkenness to talk about, but there is one instance that stands out in my mind when discussing this. Once at work, I unknowingly had several pieces of birthday cake that had been "washed" with liquor. I noticed that the buzz I got off of it was rather similar to the one I get sometimes when the Holy Spirit is present.

The big difference though, was in how I couldn't just shake it off when I needed to get back to work. It was chemically induced, and apparently had to work it's way through my system... which takes time. Being "drunk in the Spirit" is altogether different, in that the moment you need your senses, or the instant God wants you to go do something for Him (like talk to another person), your mind becomes sufficiently clear enough to do so. There is also typically a rather quick "letdown" as the service is wrapping up, where clarity of mind comes back and driving home is quite safe.

The situation with the liquor filled cake is one I will remember, because that afternoon I had to work on top of a 14 foot ladder. I didn't have that much of a buzz from the alcohol, but every time I tried to just shake it off it wouldn't work the way I'm used to with the Spirit.

When I read about the day of Pentecost and all the apostles being accused of drunkenness, then Peter stands up and delivers a historic sermon; I personally see no evidence that he wasn't "plastered" on the ground just two minutes beforehand. There is no time frame necessary to go from being blitzed in the Spirit to being back in your own right mind. :cool:
 
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I don't doubt that those who participate in being 'drunk' in the spirit have their hearts set on Christ (intention-wise, that is), but it's my opinion that they are being led astray by false spirits. In this video, the folks here aren't being immoral or anything that would contribute to sin, but why would god want us acting like animals, or have our bodies twitch and convulse, while throwing ourselves on the floor? Perhaps this is extreme, but from what I have read, this is exactly what the 'Toronto Blessing', or 'Father's Blessing' (and whatever 'blessing' you want to call it), is all about.

youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=m2MBKJkFrbM
(obviously, I've had to modify the url due to my low post count. Perhaps someone else can post it if they like).

Here is John Scotland. Is this the type of pastor that I would want ministering to me? This reminds me more of my alcoholic past, and the sinful life before coming back to Christ. It takes him forever to get to the scripture because Scotland is so 'drunk in the spirit'.
youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=pU9ZOINBdi0
(again, url obviously modified)

*note that I'm not saying that these folks aren't Christians, but that they are being mislead by a false spirit.
 
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JimB

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So my fiancée and I have taken issue with things that are going on in our church and places of worship, some people talking about "being drunk in the spirit". I've felt a major check in my spirit over the concept of this, and the phrase alone bothers me. Whenever I hear that I immediately think of Ephesians 5:18. Where it makes a distinction between being drunk and then being filled with the Holy Spirit.

However, we've encountered a few people who continually mention being drunk in the spirit and it just sounds wrong to me. One of our friends claims he's found scripture supporting this. I haven't talked to him personally about it yet so I don't know which scripture he may be referring too but it sounds like it could possibly be a misinterpretation. The whole topic has led to some heated discussions and arguments between my fiancée and a friend of hers as well as myself and one or two others.

What do you guys think?

Some people just get overcharged emotionally (I guess there are personality types like that) and stagger around a church service like they are in a drunken stupor; some people just fake it to appear more “spiritual”; and some are just spiritual exhibitionists or people in desperate need of attention. IMO, it neither brings glory to God nor enhances a person’s spirituality. I've seen it for years and have yet to see someone who practices it truly grow as a result of doing it.

You might think about changing fellowships?

~Jim
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
 
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Child-of-Zion

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When I read about the day of Pentecost and all the apostles being accused of drunkenness, then Peter stands up and delivers a historic sermon; I personally see no evidence that he wasn't "plastered" on the ground just two minutes beforehand.
Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence for. There also wasn't any evidence that Peter wasn't wearing a blue robe on that day but that doesn't mean anything. We need to be very careful how we approach Scripture with experiences. Do we funnel the Word through our experiences or funnel our experiences through the Word?

I've been in Charismatic/Pentecostal gatherings in which there were a few people making animal noises and couldn't stop laughing. It really made me uncomfortable. I watched a special on different religions in the world and saw a clip of a voodoo ritual in which the man in the middle of the room spun around with his eyes rolled in the back of his head, and he fell on the ground and went through several spasms and convulsions... eerily similar to what so many people do in the church today! Here is a different clip (beginning at around 6 minutes) of a Hindu gathering, more specifically Kundalini. It looks, again, eerily similar to many Christians on a Sunday morning.

Ok for some reason I can't remove #1. Part 1, below part 3, is the beginning of an interview with Andrew Strom who is a prophetic voice from New Zealand. I meant to just post part 3 but oh well.

YouTube - #3- AN INSIDER'S WARNING - LAKELAND - TODD BENTLEY - True or False?
 
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Tobias

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Absence of evidence is not the same as evidence for. There also wasn't any evidence that Peter wasn't wearing a blue robe on that day but that doesn't mean anything. We need to be very careful how we approach Scripture with experiences. Do we funnel the Word through our experiences or funnel our experiences through the Word?



I believe that's the exact same point I was making. It was assumed that the apostles were not drunk in the Spirit because Peter was able to stand up and preach a sermon. But that's not how it works, not in my experience anyway. :cool:

All we know for certain is that he did refute the suggestion that they were drunk with wine. Was that because they were acting drunk with slurred speech and staggering about, or because they were speaking in tongues? From what I recall, the tongues they were speaking were understood as actual languages; which doesn't indicate drunken behavior to me! Maybe they were barking like dogs??? :D

I still say that there is a time and season for everything. God *may* cause people to act drunk, crawl around on the floor, and moo like cows. If people are doing these things out of the flesh, then the results will be evident. But if people are following the Spirit of God, then the results should prove that God had good reason to ask this from His people.

A really big part of leading God's people is the ability to know what God is doing while it is happening, long before the final results are tallied up.
 
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Elijah2

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Andrew Strom is a good, honest man of God, I had a talk with him a month or so ago. He came out of all that false stuff, such as Toronto Blessing, Vineyard, etc., etc.

Yes, good videos, and straight to the point.

Andrew has much on his site.

Blessings.
 
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Cassidy

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The power of suggestion can be a powerful thing. One thing that always tends to keep me grounded is remembering that one of the fruits of the spirits is 'self-control'. If one is not controlling one's behaviour then I seriously question their spiritual maturity. One who easily succombs to the power of suggestion, needs to fix their eyes on Christ and find out who they are in Him....then...and only then, will things likes being 'drunk' and 'slain' and what not will become a thing of the past and they will see this behaviour for what it is.
 
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1usul1

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Andrew Strom is a good, honest man of God, I had a talk with him a month or so ago. He came out of all that false stuff, such as Toronto Blessing, Vineyard, etc., etc.

Yes, good videos, and straight to the point.

Andrew has much on his site.

Blessings.

Vineyard is legit man.

The movement has got me repenting, im saved, im on fire for Jesus and i bear fruit for him, i have been a part of healing the sick, casting out demons, prochecying (I thik I have practiced every Spiritual gift so far....) been a part of giving prophetic messages to churches in 3rd world countries, which has lead to 100's being saved.
i have been saved about 18 months as well, in my town the Vineyard is doing okay.

That there is bearing fruit, i don't say it with pride, its just what i have been a part of... i know why it happened, Jesus, without him i or you can't do a thing of value ya know.

God bless you.

check out the the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the sinful nature.
 
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Elijah2

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Vineyard is legit man.

The movement has got me repenting, im saved, im on fire for Jesus and i bear fruit for him, i have been a part of healing the sick, casting out demons, prochecying (I thik I have practiced every Spiritual gift so far....) been a part of giving prophetic messages to churches in 3rd world countries, which has lead to 100's being saved.
i have been saved about 18 months as well, in my town the Vineyard is doing okay.

That there is bearing fruit, i don't say it with pride, its just what i have been a part of... i know why it happened, Jesus, without him i or you can't do a thing of value ya know.

God bless you.

check out the the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the sinful nature.

Well that great mate that you were saved.

But, I can assure you that the person Andrew Strom who is in the video above can tell you all about Vineyard, and possibly so can I.

You take care now.
Blessings!:)
 
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Elijah2

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The phrase for the phenomena of “falling under the power of the Holy Spirit”, “falling before the Lord”, or “resting in the Spirit” has been around since the late 18th Century, and are still the recognised Biblical phrases, until now, as the modern “go-getters” go all out to make people “feel good” that is instigated on non-Biblical and unsound doctrinal, interpretations, by rephrasing this phenomena to hip-pop promotion of being “SLAIN in the spirit”. This didn’t exist two decades ago. Why the accepted Biblical phrase was changed to a “new age” phrase that has destroyed the real meaning is beyond any reasonable comprehension.

The phenomena is not described nor prescribed in the Bible as being “SLAIN in the spirit”, and that all this “babbling and rambling” is, at best, a psychological phenomenon more so than being touched by our Lord Jesus Christ, and at worst, of satanic origin. The closest Biblical reference to anyone being “SLAIN in the spirt” is Ananias and Sapphira, who were both “slain”. The word “slain” is a “part participle” of the word “SLAY” that has a very different connotation.

The Concise Dictionary says: “SLAY/slew/slain, slaying”, which means: “to KILL by VIOLENCE; to destroy; to extinguish”, which no doubt was the end result for Ananias and Sapphira, as they were both “SLAIN in the spirit”. So, what do you think of that followers of the “SLAIN in the spirit”?

Therefore, how could anyone who has been killed violently become intoxicated with something after being killed?
 
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